Got a spare million for your old age?

[wylie]

I know this has been discussed before but somebody my mum knows has just gone through the steps of finding a place in an aged care facility. Bond is $450K and something like $1,400 per week due to assets held.

Moving assets into a trust doesn't make any difference as they are apparently still counted as assets.

The "rich" having to pay a bond is okay with me, because at least a large chunk of that goes into the estate at the end, but why is it okay for a "rich" person to have to hand over $1,400 per week for the same care that a pensioner gets for 80% (or whatever percentage it is) of their pension.

My parents will be faced with this (multiply the numbers by two ) because they chose to put their money into growth assets and do without many of the things that their peers didn't, and they will pay handsomely for being so forward thinking.

I am all for them being able to afford to be looked after well in their old age, but they will not be looked after any better than someone in the next room who is paying one tenth of the cost of the same care.

Some will argue that the "poorer" person has paid taxes their whole life and is entitled, but my parents have paid even more tax and will keep on paying much, much more for as long as they live.

 

[Twitch]

I agree. If what you say is right then it is ridiculously unfair.

 

[Novar]

I think that could be correct.
My MIL went into care not long ago, don't know the details, but she has 0 dollars, I know that.

It does suck for those who've look out for themselves. I'm starting to think the means test should be the 'mean test'

 

[Raddles]

HI there
did see somewhere that a pensioner decided not to book into an old persons home but rather go on continuous cruises - I think if I am going to spend the sort of money you are talking about - may as well go down that line - the continuous cruise.
thanks

 

[ethereal]

It is disgusting I agree. Perhaps this is where some forward planning would help - passing on assets to children etc before going into a home? I hope I kick the bucket before a home becomes necessary.

 

[buzzlightyear]

My GM has been in a nursing home for just on 12 months now. She is 94, and through the foresight of my GF (who passed away back in 1974), they bought a commercial property in the Melbourne CBD and has been the income that she has lived off for the past 30+ years.

I was just told of her nursing home costs and they are astronomical! As a family, a few of us were debating this exact issue. I am of the opinion, that whilst the "poor" are looked after, those who can afford it, and pay a pretty penny for it, I really don't have an issue with this.

My GM has benefitted from pretty regular income over the past 30+ years, better than the pension, that's for sure. When the building has been vacant, then she has been able to claim a revised pension to help her out. Now she is in a position to pay, it has taken away a huge headache and stress for her daughters. And I don't want to live in a society where we penalise people at an age where we should be looking after them, for what they should have done during their lifetime.

I would rather have my taxes go to care for those who have no money in their old age, than the middle class welfare that Australia has become addicted to.

 

[JamesGG]

Hiya,

With all due respect to those in such a position, I hope that I never end up in an old person's home. Nevermind the money; really can't think of much worse than being old and useless (not to say that the two are entirely exclusively mutual).

The day that I can't chew my own steak or wipe my own **** or fetch my own beer (no, wait, that last one is her job)... Christ. Life is for living. I'm going to assume that I'll be young and invincible forever

Cheers

James.

 

[natmarie73]

Yes this is true, the rich subsidise the poor in nursing homes and get the same level of care.

I have also heard about the cruise thing and definately would be doing that rather than go into what is not much more than being treated like a dog in a nursing home. Either that or spend all my money before going into the nursing home. Actually, I hope to die long before i need a nursing home.

 

[letiha]

Wouldn't they be better off staying in their own homing an hiring in home care....thats what i am planning on doing $1400 a week is a lot of money.

 

[pennyk]

Hi,
Are you looking at high care nursing home or low care/ low care dementia?
Generally speaking, with low care there is a high bond, but the weekly rate is usually significantly lower than the rate you mentioned.
I think we were looking at under $300/week. (Assets of over $1 million, so we are looking at top daily rates)
High care generally doesn't have a bond, but may have higher weekly rates.
There are some nursing homes which offer "added services", and charge a higher rate, and ask for a bond. In reality, the added services seemed fairly minimal to us, so I wouldn't go down that route.
So, I would look around a bit and see what other places are available for a more reasonable cost.
We decided to keep my mum at home with full time carers. It will cost us around $30-$50K per year, so its quite costly. That is only for daytime hours. But my mum was decidedly against moving into a low care nursing home despite probably needing that level of full time care. Fortunately, my mum has a nice little RE portfolio, so her rent nearly covers the cost of the carers. She is eating into her savings a bit, but its worth it for her to stay in her own home.
We visited quite a few places before deciding to keep mum at home. I think its wrong to assume you are treated "like a dog" or even that you are useless at this age. Most of the places I went to (which were low care dementia units) looked quite pleasant, and the residents generally seemed quite happy and actively involved in what was going on around them.
After the struggles I've had with mum being so resistent to move, and the load that its been on the family, I've decided to move into an independent aged care before I need it, so that I have time to get used to it and enjoy the lifestyle, and don't have to put my kids through this trauma!!
as a child of someone with dementia, its a nightmare trying to balance the needs of my mum/brothers/children/husband with the financial side of things and mum's medical needs, and her clear desires to stay in her own home (which is a 6 bedroom, 2 storey, 3 bedroom house with pool etc, so completely inappropriate for her needs!) Then add to that the rude neighbour who keeps abusing us because we are neglecting our mother by not putting her in a nursing home - and its really a very difficult road to go down.
Pen

 

[wylie]

My understanding is that the weekly rate is a percentage of the assets held, so would possibly be different for each person. Our plan is that my dad will stay at home for as long as possible and possibly mum and dad could have a carer come in overnight, which would be cheaper than him being in a home, at least until it is the only option left.

My dad has alzheimers, pretty much deaf, refuses to wear his hearing aids, cannot see and refuses to wear his glasses. He is getting more stubborn and difficult by the day and my mum is often at her wit's end.

They do have a set up where he could move permanently into a large downstairs area which would give my mother some "me time" which she doesn't get now with my dad asking the same question sometimes ten times per hour. It is quite frustrating and I understand why she gets short with him, but he cannot help it.

So sad to see this happen to your parents.....

 

[Y33]

Wylie,

Have you thought of a few days a week at a nursing home or hostel to give your mum a break?

A few things about old people and nursing homes.

Most older people die at home before going to a nursing home.

There is a difference between nursing homes and hostels.

Some places are a mixture of hostel, nursing home and dementia units.

Living in a nursing home doesn't mean old and useless.

Some elderly people like the idea of having others around to do the cooking and cleaning etc plus the added advantage of different activities rather than home alone with no one to talk to day after day.

 

[Sheryn]

Stand on own 2 feet OR Government has to support less capable Aussies

Wouldn't they be better off staying in their own homing an hiring in home care....thats what i am planning on doing $1400 a week is a lot of money.

YES - Good option.


You can employ a person or 3 to care for you OR the Government provides CACP and EACHD packages for people who cannot pay for care and wish to stay in their own home.

KEY:

CACP = Community Aged Care Packages for frail aged clients.

EACHD = Extended Aged Care Packages for Dementia clients.


On another note...

I read a newspaper article a short while ago that reported that the three largest providers of residential aged high care in QLD will not be applying for new bed licences when they become available as they are only making 1% on return now.


Somewhere along the lines I have retained the information that average aged care clients costs $44,000 per year (Divide that by 52 weeks).

User pay to me means that I have contributed to society and am not a burden on my children (working Australians)

Government subsidised means to me that some people have not been able to contribute to society ( for what ever reason) and are / or continue to be a burden on their children (and working Australians).


Regards
Sheryn

 

[wylie]

Hi Y33. Thanks for the tip. My dad has been into respite for a week or two about two times in the past year. My mum then has a break at home without dad constantly asking the same thing over and over, all day.

Last time my dad was in respite, my mum had two nights at a carer's respite which she said was fantastic. They discussed the carer role and tips for carers. She had a massage, facial and reflexology. It was fantastic. Respite costs but it must be subsidised because it was not really expensive.

 

[Y33]

Wylie,

Good to hear you have used respite. As his condition gets worse 1 or 2 day weekly trips for respite is beneficial for all. It also helps the respite carers know what key/trigger words etc to use to help him settle and also provides a familiar place for him. You may want to try a few places until you find one that you may want to consider using full time.

For those thinking of home carers make sure they are trained in Dementia and/or Alzheimer's care and have the appropriate certificates.

 

[pennyk]

I checked and our in-home carers for mum are costing around $1500/ week. That's for someone there roughly from 9-5 each day, 6 days week, with 7 days every fortnight. So, definitely more expensive than hostel/ nursing home. Once we need overnight carers, we will need to move her to a nursing home.
We also get a package that covers 6 hours of in-home care for leisure/ social purposes. That costs an additional $200/mth or so.
we tried to get mum to go to a day centre, but it was based in the grounds of a nursing home, so she wouldnt have anything to do with it.

But this is the real advantage to having Investment Properties in old age! Mum is covering 70% of these costs with her rental properties, so its not depleting her savings to any great extent. Once she goes into nursing care, and we can rent her place, the rent will more than cover her nursing care.

With in-home carers, you need to have a roster of people going in, not just one person. We find only about 1/3 of the carers come back for even their 2nd visit, particularly when she first started having carers and was very resistant. And those that do go regularly get burned out fairly quickly. and my mum is generally not unpleasant, although she can get quite cranky at times. But it is exhausting being with her, when the same conversation is repeated over and over and over and over and over and over and over!! I find myself very uncompassionate!!

Pen

 

[BayView]

HI there
did see somewhere that a pensioner decided not to book into an old persons home but rather go on continuous cruises - I think if I am going to spend the sort of money you are talking about - may as well go down that line - the continuous cruise.
thanks

The slight difference is that in a nursing home you require care - some need great amounts.

On a cruise you're not gunna get that care.

I reckon doing the cruise thing would be great while you don't need the care, and when that time comes, you could slip silently over the back hand rail.

 

[marg4000]

My mother has Alzheimers and after a year of organising home care she moved into a nursing home in October this year. The nursing home we chose is actually run by the Alzheimers Association. At this particular home the fees are the same for everyone regardless of assets (pegged at 85% of the single age pension), but that is NOT why we chose it.

As for the bond, leglislation allows the home to retain a fixed amount each month for 60 months (5 years) which amounts to around $18K, and then the rest goes to the estate when the person leaves the home.

Wylie, has your dad been officially diagnosed with Alzheimers (usually by a geriatrician)?

When mum was first diagnosed we contacted the Alzheimers Association and arranged for her to have day respite care. She was picked up by bus at around 9am, taken to the centre, there was an entertainment program then she had a hot lunch with dessert, then brought home around 2pm. They also had a hairdresser and podiatrist there. Cost was around $12 a day but enabled mum to stay at home longer.

It got to the point that it was no longer safe for her to be at home, so we reluctantly decided that formal care was the only solution to give her the medical and social care that she needed.
Marg

 

[wylie]

That is interesting Marg. My dad is officially diagnosed and goes to respite each Friday. He goes to a respite home down your neck of the woods a few times a year to give mum a break. The weekly respite sounds very much like your mum's set up. Would love to know the name of the home if you could PM me. My dad was first diagnosed quite a number of years ago, and is going downhill pretty quickly just lately, but physically fit.

I think he is a few years off needing to go into a home, and to be honest, it is my mother who I am more concerned about because she bears the brunt of the continual questions from my dad, and the stress she is sometimes under worries me. Apart from the Alzheimers, his short term memory is completely gone, so he will ask the same question ten times in an hour, hour after hour.

 

[Y33]

Wylie,

When you say a few years of from going into a home what have you based this on? Physical care, psychological care or relief for family? No one really likes the idea of putting a loved one in to a nursing home or hostel but most of the time it is for the best of all concerned.