Government employees

[HiEquity]

In my industry the govt routinely pays below the private sector and try (without success) to make up for it with the flexi benefits etc. Unfortunately the end result of that strategy is that 80% of the people come from the bottom of the talent pool in the industry. The other 20% are there for the sense of service to the community and because they are the only competent ones they are the only people who do any real work and make real decisions - everyone else are just "hangers on" along for the ride.

You could easily get away with one third the number of people if they just paid a little bit above market and got the cream of the crop in every position. Would cost them a heap less and we would get much better service. But because they refuse to do this they end up replacing quality with quantity - at taxpayer's expense! And we get a regular output of fiascos. But this may just be peculiar to my industry - I have no idea about health, education etc.

BTW it's a great job for property investing - banks love the regular income and the relative inability to be sacked!

 

[The Fence]

What HE said above sums it up perfectly for me.

 

[LoneWolf]

So how does one make the switch from private to government roles? Obviously there will be no Government related experience, and only industrial related experience

Do you simply apply through the Government website for opening? Is it as simple as this?

 

[Ideo]

So how does one make the switch from private to government roles? Obviously there will be no Government related experience, and only industrial related experience

Do you simply apply through the Government website for opening? Is it as simple as this?

Was for me, but this was in the planning field.

 

[Dave_R]

So how does one make the switch from private to government roles? Obviously there will be no Government related experience, and only industrial related experience

Do you simply apply through the Government website for opening? Is it as simple as this?

Pretty much. What level of government are you looking at? I alluded to it before, but Federal Government has a recruitment freeze operational, which means all vacancies must be filled from within the APS. Any external recruitment will be done only if they can't fill jobs from within existing govt employee stocks. The only other way to come in AFAIK would be through graduate recruitment.

 

[Ed Barton]

I do and love it. I don't think i would ever leave. The amount of flex days, REC days, Sick, FACTS days etc you get you would never get anything like this is the private sector. Not to mention the flexable working hours and other benefits.

What the heck is a FACT day?

 

[LoneWolf]

What about coming from a commerce / business background?

 

[D.T.]

What the heck is a FACT day?

FACTS day... Found At Clubs, Taverns, Strip joints

 

[MTR]

LoneWolf

I was a public servant, retired about 8/9 years ago. I was running my property investment business while holding this day job, why??? because I could, that's got to tell you something.

You may find it difficult to secure one of these jobs because most PS surprise, surprise don't leave their jobs because the conditions in general are so good in comparison to private sector.

When they retire or are promoted, their position is generally already earmarked to someone who has been acting in the position for years....

Yes, that's how it works. We called it "the gravy train".

Oh yes, when I left and I was working 2.5 days per week part-time they ended up employing someone to do the same job but full time, 5 days per week, wow, that means they have more ME time.

No offence to anyone who is a PS, just calling a spade a shovel

 

[LoneWolf]

LoneWolf

I was a public servant, retired about 8/9 years ago. I was running my property investment business while holding this day job, why??? because I could, that's got to tell you something.

You may find it difficult to secure one of these jobs because most PS surprise, surprise don't leave their jobs because the conditions in general are so good in comparison to private sector.

When they retire or are promoted, their position is generally already earmarked to someone who has been acting in the position for years....

Yes, that's how it works. We called it "the gravy train".

Oh yes, when I left and I was working 2.5 days per week part-time they ended up employing someone to do the same job but full time, 5 days per week, wow, that means they have more ME time.

No offence to anyone who is a PS, just calling a spade a shovel

Right, got it.

Seems that you would need to start from the very bottom for PS roles

 

[Ed Barton]

No offence to anyone who is a PS, just calling a spade a shovel

So if you work hard/smart and have ambition do you get promoted? Or do you just have to serve your time to move up the food chain?

 

[MTR]

I think post grads start at Level 3, that could be around $70K range?
Once you get your foot in the door, if you work harder than most and align yourself with the right people I think this is in part how you work your way up the ladder relatively quickly.

My daughters b/friend after graduating from uni has pretty much jumped 2 levels in 12 months, commerce background.

 

[MarkB]

When [public servants] retire or are promoted, their position is generally already earmarked to someone who has been acting in the position for years....

Promotion by suction.

Was how I characterised it when people not in the APS asked me.

I was APS from 1999 to 2003. I worked in a couple of the more prestigious agencies (in my field) and was getting promoted and getting paid well. But I hated just about every minute of it. So I got out and I got away from Canberra.

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

I've never been an actual PS employee, but do the majority of my consulting to govt depts.

There are lots of staff working there that I would call 'average'. Not bad, just average, and few really good performers. The good performers climb the tree and have get lots of opportunity.

Govt do some extremely interesting things, don't assume it's all sitting in offices doing paperwork.

 

[MTR]

So if you work hard/smart and have ambition do you get promoted? Or do you just have to serve your time to move up the food chain?

I can not speak for all departments of course, but I think its in part putting your hand up for higher level/acting positions to gain experience and then working harder and aligning yourself with the right people.

I knew a guy who came from Croatia, no degree etc, started at the bottom and was also attending uni part-time. He also put up his hand for as many acting higher level positions as possible. He eventually completed his degree.

The Director of this particular department is his mentor and he I think now holds Level 8 PS position. I think this all happened within a 5 year period.

 

[LoneWolf]

I think post grads start at Level 3, that could be around $70K range?
Once you get your foot in the door, if you work harder than most and align yourself with the right people I think this is in part how you work your way up the ladder relatively quickly.

My daughters b/friend after graduating from uni has pretty much jumped 2 levels in 12 months, commerce background.

Ok, thanks Marisa. It appears one must start from the bottom and get foot in door first

 

[MarkB]

It appears one must start from the bottom and get foot in door first

Or be a recognised expert in your field before you join the APS.

(Like an economics professor, etc, seen a couple of people do that)

 

[MTR]

Yes, I would say so, or you know someone who can help you get your foot in the door, this will be a hard call though.

There is also another way depending on your expertise/background.

Government agencies use specific recruitment agencies for temporary assignments such as IT, clerical staff for perhaps, 3 months etc. However, in many cases if the particular department is extremely happy with the contractor they will continue to extend their contract.

The key here is to find out which recruitment agencies actually provide this service, just a phone call. There are at least 3 in Perth that I know of that are government suppliers.

 

[cimbom]

The good performers climb the tree and have get lots of opportunity.

I wouldn't say this is true necessarily. We had an amazingly talented guy on contract at EL1 level in my area. Really hands on, lots of good ideas, industry knowledge, creative, etc. His contract ended and was not renewed. From the grapevine, it seems like it was a "political" decision based on factors other than the quality of his output. His replacement, who is now permanent, is not as great. More of a performer than a do-er, if you will. There is definitely a lot of politics and nepotism involved.

 

[LoneWolf]

Or be a recognised expert in your field before you join the APS.

(Like an economics professor, etc, seen a couple of people do that)

Thanks Mark, by the time one gets to be eg: economics professor, I think time is already ticking away for one's career, speaking on behalf of average joes