Govt cuts uni funding to pay for Gonski

[Sheryn]

After reading the below article I am thinking if I was a uni student (or a parent who paid) who paid for the units studied each semester to get a 10% reduction in fees, now I wouldn't bother as the incentive to pay as you go has been removed?

http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Top...uts_uni_funding_to_pay_for_Gonski_863236.html

What are others thoughts?


XOXO
Sheryn

 

[Angel]

Thanks for the info, Sherryn.

I'll be waiting until after Sept 14th for that one. I have two kids with Uni fees who are paying the minimal $500 per semester upfront amounts in order to get the discount.

 

[cimbom]

I don't think the fee discount is the biggest issue. The fact that billions will be cut from uni funding is a disgrace. So much research and development comes through universities and Australia is already pretty behind in this area by international standards. No wonder so many of our best medical scientists, researchers, etc are leaving and working overseas. Why didn't they use the subsidies that went to Holden/Toyota/Ford and give that to unis instead. It would have certainly added much more to the economy

 

[CHAOS]

No discount?

I recall paying up front to get the 25% discount - well I guess that was around 12 years ago. And self-funded too.

What IR is charged if you go the HECS option?

Does a HECS debt affect borrowing capacity?

 

[Sheryn]

The fact that billions will be cut from uni funding is a disgrace. So much research and development comes through universities and Australia is already pretty behind in this area by international standards.

Cimbom
All sorts of professions are required to complete CPD points each year, in the health area some professionals are looking at research projects so I reckon things will evolve.


I will be an interested reader as to how these proposed changes ignite debate.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...rom-universities/story-e6freuy9-1226619888205

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Sheryn, look at it another way. Encourage your kids to go into a trade.

The bonus:

1. they get paid to learn a trade
2. they don't waste four years of their life learning a profession that is flooded with applicants, thereby reducing the income payable, with Uni fees to be repaid from an ever decreasing (in real terms) pay scale.
3. a trade is an honourable profession. I regret few decisions in my lifetime, but not going into a trade is one of them.
4. it's all about supply and demand. Uni's are flooded with people these days and tradies are in short supply.

 

[Nemo30]

So we should be expecting outraged uni students to be protesting en masse.

Oh, hang on, the Labor party did it...unlikely to hear boo from them.

 

[Peter Parker]

So we should be expecting outraged uni students to be protesting en masse.

Oh, hang on, the Labor party did it...unlikely to hear boo from them.

Though bear in mind that politicised students are often Green/Labor Left. The majority of the rest are either more focused on their course, hedonistic or apathetic.

Whereas Labor governments have a significant 'Labor Right' or 'pragmatic' faction. I'm guessing this group are more concerned about 'working families' than the green/academic Left (who procreate late or not at all).

In doing this Labor is appealing to parents with young kids. Of course older parents are also concerned about university education. However Labor could run a scare campaign about higher fees on this against the Libs.

This could potentially split Labor's factions apart from each other. Or more tantalisingly, split one part of the Labor Left from another part of the Labor Left.

Since the Academic Left have traditionally seen more education spending as the solution to everything it will be hard to outrightly oppose a policy that boosts one aspect of education (even if the elite Left themselves may send any kids they have to private schools).

It's a bit like how the Liberals cleverly tied selling half of Telstra with Landcare/conservation projects. Privatisation was considered 'bad' but many opponents tended to be either 'rural' or 'green' (and like land conservation projects) so were in a political bind.

 

[HotRod]

My son will be paying upfront until the discount stops and then he said he's not going to bother paying it.

Interest returns are still higher than the CPI, so why bother now?

Better the money be in his pocket earning him more money than paying off government debt.

So, in a way, the government just increased debt again.

No incentive to pay it back at all.

 

[Dan_p]

Why didn't they use the subsidies that went to Holden/Toyota/Ford and give that to unis instead. It would have certainly added much more to the economy

Especially as these were doomed to fail

 

[GreenMedallion]

No incentive to pay it back at all.

This hits the nail on the head. The no discount policy will probably cost the government more in the long term than it would having just left the discount there.

What I don't understand is why Labor is taking the two unpopular options of
a) cutting the HECS discounts
b) making the youth allowance semester payments a loan (on HECS) that must eventually be paid back
given that university students are probably one of the few groups of people who (up until now) might have still actually voted for Gillard and her band of misfits.

 

[Sheryn]

Sheryn, look at it another way. Encourage your kids to go into a trade.

The bonus:

1. they get paid to learn a trade
2. they don't waste four years of their life learning a profession that is flooded with applicants, thereby reducing the income payable, with Uni fees to be repaid from an ever decreasing (in real terms) pay scale.
3. a trade is an honourable profession. I regret few decisions in my lifetime, but not going into a trade is one of them.
4. it's all about supply and demand. Uni's are flooded with people these days and tradies are in short supply.

Agree the way to go for some including our adult kids who went to TAFE.

On ABC TV this morning panels said HECs debt was 26 billion and bad debts was 6 billion. Personally I know of a few young adults who have no intention of earning enough to trigger starting repayments.

Also know of a few who are paying their own way and doing post graduate work that is self funded eg studying their CPA. The way it should be IMHO.

In addition I have worked with a few who couldn't pass a unit in order to progress so have ended up after spending 6 years part time at uni with no qualification just a debt.

 

[Trippy]

Sheryn, look at it another way. Encourage your kids to go into a trade.

The bonus:

1. they get paid to learn a trade
2. they don't waste four years of their life learning a profession that is flooded with applicants, thereby reducing the income payable, with Uni fees to be repaid from an ever decreasing (in real terms) pay scale.
3. a trade is an honourable profession. I regret few decisions in my lifetime, but not going into a trade is one of them.
4. it's all about supply and demand. Uni's are flooded with people these days and tradies are in short supply.

Not sure about there being a shortage of tradies, maybe in some parts of Australia, but with new construction at record lows and mining infrastructure coming off the boil I can't see that tradies are in short supply. I read recently somewhere that the building industry has lost 30,000 employees over the last couple of years due to declining work levels.

 

[cimbom]

On ABC TV this morning panels said HECs debt was 26 billion and bad debts was 6 billion. Personally I know of a few young adults who have no intention of earning enough to trigger starting repayments.

I doubt that is even that common to be honest. I am making 63k atm and only pay $60/week HECS repayments. I can't think of any normal, rational person who would forego say $300-400/week so they don't have to pay $60.

Also know of a few who are paying their own way and doing post graduate work that is self funded eg studying their CPA. The way it should be IMHO.

In most cases, a CPA isn't "self funded". I'm guessing that most who do it claim it back as a tax deduction anyway. Trying to save money by making university education payable upfront is a false economy. Most university students pay back the cost of their subsidy many times over in increased taxes (due to an increased salary).

In addition I have worked with a few who couldn't pass a unit in order to progress so have ended up after spending 6 years part time at uni with no qualification just a debt.

Again, this is rare and certainly not the rule. I don't think it is very wise to base public policy decisions on a few individuals who are really nothing more than tokens. In the very large majority of cases, that is not true at all.

 

[Corey Batt]

Why cut the discount? This gives the government the option of either a) people pay upfront the full amount and costs the government zip, or b) a long term drip back of funds at CPI rate so inflation won't eat away at the returned investment.

You start having your pay garnished from 49k. How many university grads seriously will be under that threshold for their working life?

 

[Dazz]

Education, rail, NBN, disability insurance, nurses, police, health, roads......it doesn't matter what the issue is.

The answer is these guys can't run the economy. Confidence sux on both the consumer and the production side. It won't begin to change until these clowns are out.

With nothing in the pot, a likely deficit of $ 15 Billion this year and a stinking pile of debt racked up to $ 150 nett (it's actually $ 270 Billion gross debt) there simply isn't any money to go around.

It doesn't matter who has their hand out. It doesn't matter how urgent the timing is. They haven't managed the economy, and therefore there isn't any money to go around.

Yesterday it was the NBN, today it is education, tomorrow it'll be insurance. The subject matter doesn't matter. If the Fed. Govt is useless at running the biggest business in the country (union hacks are always useless at running businesses, cos they don't have any concept or experience at doing it prior to going into politics) there is never any money to go around.

The people can but simply wait for their opportunity to rectify the situation.

Incredibly, the Labor politicians are running around making policy as if any of actually matters. In less than 5 months they'll be turfed out on their ear and none of this will matter.

It will however, take a good 15 years to get the country out of the pickle it has been pushed into. Don't expect miracles overnight. The task is enormous to fix.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Not sure about there being a shortage of tradies,

Have you not read the plethora of 'How do I get tradies to call me back?' threads on here? As the years roll on and more people go to Uni, rather than into trades, the shortage is going to get leaner and leaner. I prefer to extrapolate out ten/twenty/thirty years from now.

 

[Nemo30]

As the years roll on and more people go to Uni, rather than into trades, the shortage is going to get leaner and leaner. I prefer to extrapolate out ten/twenty/thirty years from now.

Not everyone goes to Uni though. My son has just finished Yr 12, he's in his first year of Uni. I'd say maybe a third (or less) of his class went on to uni - a fairly well educated demographic too.

Kids are encouraged to consider trades these days, more so than when I was at school. Now you can start a school based apprenticeship while you are at school and still finish Yr 12. Lots of kids are taking these up.

Out of his close group of friends, one is doing a plumbing apprenticeship and two are bakers. All started while they were at school.

 

[Corey Batt]

With a reno I saw the desperation on some of the trades. Lots of jobs being pulled and work drying up.

Had a tiler in last week, very quiet after receiving a call to find out the contract for 49 bathrooms is being cancelled - development not going forward. Plumber came in from the other side of town work 2 hours for $100 labour on site. Came up to me afterwards asking if I would have any work in the near future, handed me a number of cards and said he would make sure to look after me, he just needs the work with the way the building industry is.

A lot of tradies leaving their industries to work in unskilled labour, can't guarantee food on the table for their kids otherwise.

My wifes siblings are all looking to enter the trades. Half of my relatives in schooling age are moving in that direction too.

Not all sunshine and lollypops methinks.

Are trade tickets the next bubble?

 

[wylie]

Our electrician, who we often had to wait for because he was so busy, called me recently to see if I had any work.

Same for our plumber.

Just in the dealings we have had whilst renovating three houses over the past three months, the tradies seem to be doing it a bit tough. I think people are not spending money unless they really need to.