Greed

[sue78]

I guess being a property forum there's gonna be a lot of greedy ppl here.

Do you think you are greedy?
do u honestly believe you can become a millionaire in 5 yrs through debt/borrowings?
does money really make you that happy?

Eventhough I'm an investor, over the years I have tried so hard not to be greedy. We rarely increase rent, especially for our long term tenants and we have sold a house to our tenant without even testing the market. I know we sold it possibly $20 to $40k below market. I think that's why I have lasted so long in this game. Some ppl would say we are silly right but I believe we have been so blessed in other ways and many of which are so much more important that an IP.

But there are some on here that I really admire...ppl that make time for charity work. Really inspired by Depreciator's work in India and a few others.

PPl think you need to be rich to give back but that's not how it works...you give because you want to and because the recipient needs it not because you can afford to, when you want to and on your terms. Your road to wealth will be more honest and hopefully more blessed. I admire a person that can give their last cent to someone in need than a rich person worth $20bil giving $5mil.

 

[Dazz]

All IMO. Most on the forum will probably disagree.

I'm in business for the same reason Banks are.
I conduct business for the same reason Banks do.
I concentrate on the same priorities as Banks do.
My contracts are similar, but not as good as the Banks.
I try and have as much emotion in any deal as the Banks do.

Attempting to "humanise" business activities with human opinionated frailities such as emotions / greed / happiness / morals / beliefs and ethics simply muddies the waters and distracts focus from the business.

Business / investing / deal making is about money.

I do not agree that property is a "people business".

What you choose to do with the money once you have made it....to me that's a whole different ball of wax....and that's where all the fluffy human emotions should come in to play, but those emotive human traits should not taint the source of the money.

 

[troyhunt]

Greed:

intense and selfish desire for food, wealth, or power.

- Oxford

Given the necessity of being intense and selfish, I don't think you'll get a lot of "yes" responses.

 

[steveadl]

I admire a person that can give their last cent to someone in need than a rich person worth $20bil giving $5mil.

But which provides the greater good for the recipients? $5M will help a lot more people/causes than $100 will. Just because he's more succesful financially, his gesture isn't as honourable?

I plan on being as wealthy as my mindset and circumstance allow. If that defines me as 'greedy', so be it.

 

[pendo]

Just came across this little 'philosophical' extract this morning re ownership of property.

"Ownership of property is only an artificial construct. If we can remember that ownership is something that exists only by definition, then it's possible to give up possessiveness, defensiveness and greed.. What does it matter how much money or land you say you have? You cannot actually own it.

You don't even own your own body. Ultimate ownership would mean total control. You would never age. You could make it as beautiful as you wanted. You would never suffer from accidents. But! The fact is that we are all imprisoned in flesh that ages, decays, becomes diseased, and can be destroyed by rather minor accidents. you don't own your body. You live in a borrowed shell. Why not seek the truth that goes beyond the body"
Deng Ming Dao

Some wisdom in this BUT! Possessiveness, defensiveness and greed will always challenge human beings to seek and hold power.
But nothing lasts forever.
Extinction is assured for all of us, somewhere along the line.

The message for me is find your own balance and have some fun.
And the best of luck to all.

 

[Modal Harmony]

We see owning IP's as a love offering to our 4 daughters. When they have all left home (1 married, 1 soon to be married, 2 Uni students), we want them to be secure in the fact that their Mum & Dad have provided for their retirement and not sought the pension (whatever that might be in 15 years time!!) or financial help from these girls.

We want them to see that we have proactively instigated a retirement fund that will see us through our retirement years, with all the expenses that might arise from this. In the end when we pass on, there will hopefully be an estate that we can pass on to all 4 girls and their families.

This is not greed, but a community service!

 

[wylie]

We operate on pretty much the same ideas Modal. But I do worry that with my three boys knowing that one day they will inherit, whether that will make them sit back and not try to do it on their own.

Do you worry about that at all with your girls?

 

[Aaron Sice]

What does it matter how much money or land you say you have? You cannot actually own it

no, you don't OWN money, but you trade it for goods and services - and goods and services are traded for money. hence more money, more goods and services. more goods and services = more money.

 

[weg]

PI is simply another way to make money so if you ask this Q you need to ask whether people that seek to make money are greedy.

Is a wage earner or business owner greedy or just those that have the ability to earn a lot? And is a materialistic low income earner more greedy than a high earner that isn't as materialistic? I mean what is the criteria.

Everyones definition of greedy will be different in relation to this Q. I'd say in most cases greedy to describe IP holders is due more to the tall poppy syndrome.

My definition of greedy is someone that needs to spend spend spend with the less you have to spend the greedier you are. Do I think I'm greedy.. no .

 

[BayView]

Answers in red Sue.

I guess being a property forum there's gonna be a lot of greedy ppl here. IF WE WEREN'T WE WOULDN'T BOTHER WITH ALL THE GRIEF WE GO THROUGH.

Do you think you are greedy? YES

do u honestly believe you can become a millionaire in 5 yrs through debt/borrowings? THAT IS THE PLAN - DID IT (IN EQUITY) IN 8. NOW WORKING ON THE CASHFLOW TO MATCH.

does money really make you that happy? YES. I NEED LOTS OF IT TO LIVE A REALLY COOL LIFESTYLE. I CAN BE HAPPY WITH NO MONEY, BUT WHO WANTS TO DO THAT?

Eventhough I'm an investor, over the years I have tried so hard not to be greedy. WHY?

We rarely increase rent, especially for our long term tenants and we have sold a house to our tenant without even testing the market. I know we sold it possibly $20 to $40k below market. I think that's why I have lasted so long in this game. Some ppl would say we are silly right but I believe we have been so blessed in other ways and many of which are so much more important that an IP. YOU CAN STILL BE GREEDY AND BE NICE TO PEOPLE AS YOU GO. I STRIVE TO DO THIS EVERY DAY. SOME DAYS IT IS VERY HARD TO BE NICE THOUGH. GRIN THROUGH GRITTED TEETH.

But there are some on here that I really admire...ppl that make time for charity work. Really inspired by Depreciator's work in India and a few others. EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE TO DO THIS - COMPULSORY COMMUNITY SERVICE. THE CRIMINALS SHOULD DO WAY MORE.

PPl think you need to be rich to give back but that's not how it works...you give because you want to and because the recipient needs it not because you can afford to, when you want to and on your terms. AGREE, BUT RICH PEOPLE CAN GIVE FAR MORE - AND THEY DO.

Your road to wealth will be more honest and hopefully more blessed. NOT NECESSARILY - THIS MINDSET IS IDEALISTIC.

I admire a person that can give their last cent to someone in need than a rich person worth $20bil giving $5mil. I ADMIRE BOTH - THEY ARE BOTH GIVING TO THE NEEDY. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE ZERO ON THE END. I WOULD RATHER BE THE BILLIONAIRE BECAUSE THEY REALLY CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. THE BIG-HEARTED PERSON WITH NO CASH CAN ONLY GIVE THEIR TIME, AND IN THE END MAKES LITTLE DIFFERENCE SADLY.

 

[BoatBoy]

We operate on pretty much the same ideas Modal. But I do worry that with my three boys knowing that one day they will inherit, whether that will make them sit back and not try to do it on their own.

Do you worry about that at all with your girls?

Excellent point Wylie, you could always take full advantaged of your hard earned and slowly wittle it away on a lifelong cruise on some nice boat through exotic locations or something similar

or maybe make it an inheritance based on performance, no dough until they have actually achieved in life themselves, being penalised for complacency (unlike many executives today) and a large proportion being awarded to a worthwhile cause* of your choice.








*The"Boatboys Beer, Rum and Cray sampling survey" on a nice boat through exotic locations would be a good one to consider.

Dave

 

[Bill.L]

Hi all,

Somebody had to say it,

Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. (Gordon Gekko, Wall Street)

If there was no greed then the first fleet may not have left England.
If there was no greed then the Romans may not have expanded into the rest of Europe.
If there was no greed then Henry Ford may not have invented the assembly line.
If there was no greed then businesses would not have been able to raise capital on stockmarkets and expand for the last 200 years.
If there was no greed tenants would have no-where to live as there would not be IPs available.

bye

 

[HiEquity]

To me, someone that spends more than they earn, living from paycheck to paycheck with maxed out credit cards for shopping / holidays / beer / toys etc etc is far more "greedy" than a property investor who is careful with their money and is also looking to create something for tomorrow.

Property investing doesn't make you "greedy". The successful property investors I know are also some of the least greedy people I know. They understand and happily apply the principle of delayed gratification, without feeling they are going without. They are looking to build something of enduring value, to provide safety and security for themselves and their families.

By the time they have created serious wealth, these habits are so ingrained that they have (almost! ) forgotten how to spend the money on themselves anyway. Their enjoyment comes from what they are doing so they invariably keep doing it.

I agree that once you have reached this point your thoughts should turn to how to share the excess for most effect but the path of building real wealth is only trod by those who know how to go without - not the "greedy".

 

[troyhunt]

To me, someone that spends more than they earn, living from paycheck to paycheck with maxed out credit cards for shopping / holidays / beer / toys etc etc is far more "greedy" than a property investor who is careful with their money and is also looking to create something for tomorrow.

Stupid, yes. Greedy, maybe

By the time they have created serious wealth, these habits are so ingrained that they have (almost! ) forgotten how to spend the money on themselves anyway.

That's a very interesting observation and one I concur with. It's difficult to make a transition from a cycle of aggressive saving and investing to one of enjoying the fruits of the labour. Certainly a good problem to have but a problem all the same.

 

[santaslayer]

Warren Buffet aint greedy. He's rich, but not greedy.

 

[boomtown]

Warren Buffet aint greedy. He's rich, but not greedy.

Hes greedy when others are fearful.












Sorry someone had to say it.

 

[sash]

Yep!

Also....gave most of his fortune to charity via the Bill Gates foundation!

There is a philosophy that you need to "give to get".......something to do with the psychology of money!

I have seen people obssessed with money...lose it and be miserable. I have also seen people lose money still be okay and then remake it, and some people who seem to get the balance right.

The trick is that if you are miserable S.O.B. it does not make a difference if you have money or not.

Hes greedy when others are fearful.

Sorry someone had to say it.

 

[Perp]

We operate on pretty much the same ideas Modal. But I do worry that with my three boys knowing that one day they will inherit, whether that will make them sit back and not try to do it on their own.

I don't intend to give my kids money or property. I will help them with contacts, knowledge, a loan for a deposit (with interest, of course!), etc, but I won't deprive them of the satisfaction of having created their own wealth. My parents have the means to have helped my siblings and I, but haven't. It gives me a great sense of satisfaction to know that whatever we have, we've created ourselves. I hope that I have the resolve to stick to it with my own children; I'm a pathetic softie with my boys.

But even if you do decide to give your kids property and/or money, there's no need to tell them about your plans beforehand. Let them believe that you're not giving them anything. If they sit back anyway, then perhaps you may want to reconsider giving them stuff until they've got themselves sorted; it'd just be encouraging them to sponge. If they go out into life with enthusiasm and apply themselves, then you can give them something as a reward for their efforts, to give them a kick-along.

 

[grossreal]

hi ozperp
interesting post
my son was asked by his broker why he was going to him when I have product and could do his loan
and my answr was the same as yours he needs to be able to do the deal on his own
yes I assist with information and help put he has to make his own calls on the deal
and at this stage has done very well
a posi 2br already in ashfield and is learning the issues with resi.
I am not one to worry that much about greed as its the oil thats runs the modern world and without it most economies would grind to hault.
so I like greed
and all those school stories that greed is bad was put out buy all the teachers that had no chance of making any real money and so hated the once that moved ahead of them and so said greed is bad.
ask some one that collects lots of money or very expensive items if greed is bad
they will say no its good
say to a billionaire is greed bad
no will be the answer
ask a drunk in the park and the answer will be a couple of f words and yes
we have been told its bad.
well sorry its not
greed is not bad
greed without ethics is
greed where the requirement is usary or the interest is usary is not allowed in my book but could be ok in others book
in some arab states even paying interest is a no go and is seen as greed.
so maybe I am the odd one here but I like greed but i like it to be not usary or unethical but otherwise is fine

 

[boomtown]

Good point GR - charging interest is illegal in many Muslim states because it is too greedy. But its normal here.

One example of Shariah compliant finance is that you go into a joint venture with a bank to buy an investment property. They pay the initial acquisition cost and you pay all of the running costs plus gradually repay them their capital. They keep most of the rent and you get a little sprinkle of rent.

Eventually when you have paid them back their capital they leave the joint venture and you get all the profits.

Its very nice but in practice works very similar to a Western mortgage.