GST - Should it be increased?

[BayView]

It's not about dollars, but about percentage. Higher income earners already pay a higher dollar figure of taxes than lower income earners. They gain from tax advantages on investment income. Dividend franking, capital gains discounts, etc.

To put it another way, a broadbase, higher GST will take away more, in % terms, from lower income earners than higher income earners. To me, that's the definition of a regressive tax.

Agree.

We were talking about this at work a couple of days ago (yes; I have a mechanic who is actually intelligent and can discuss these things on a decent level - he's a Labor Lefty, but I won't hold it against him too much).

We would rather see the Income Tax brackets decreased, and all income tax lowered generally.

Then, the GST (or consumption tax) is lifted to say; 12% - but not on staple items such as clothing, "generic" food (purchased from places such as markets and supermarkets, and not from restaurants, cafes etc - places where food is already prepared and sold to eat; these should be subject to the GST) and utilities.

This way; the battlers can save money on the things they need, and everyone gets hit a bit harder if they choose to be a consumer.

And - I know folks will scream at this - all overseas online purchases attract a 20% GST.

If you don't like that; buy locally. Too expensive? too bad.

Start thinking about the economy of this Country and improving it and the future of jobs and not your own selfish hip pocket nerve.

 

[NedKelly]

Battlers don't pay income tax so changing the brackets wouldn't help them. Battlers get more from the system than they pay in with family credit, etc.

 

[BayView]

Battlers don't pay income tax so changing the brackets wouldn't help them. Battlers get more from the system than they pay in with family credit, etc.

My version of "battler" (God I hate this term - it's so ACA) is the blue-collar worker who has no financial control, no financial intelligence, has too much week at the end of the money, and complains all the time about being broke, complains about the Boss and anyone who is perceived to be rich, and they like to say "I'll never be rich, but I'll be happy".

Or; pensioners who wear the term like a badge....

Battlers.

 

[NedKelly]

I don't think an extra few percent in their pay packet will increase their standard of living. They will undoubtedly spend it on some more unnecessary consumer products because they can afford to pay a little extra off their credit card each month.

 

[BayView]

I don't think an extra few percent in their pay packet will increase their standard of living. They will undoubtedly spend it on some more unnecessary consumer products because they can afford to pay a little extra off their credit card each month.

I disagree.

To most people; more money to spend equals a better standard of living and lifestyle.

Better car, better clothes, better bikes for the kids, restaurants, holiday to the Theme Parks instead of camping on the river at Echuca, and so forth.

As you all know; my job is car repairs, tyres and servicing.

In my normal day, I see this; anyone who can afford a decent car - has one.

Anyone who can't afford a decent car - doesn't have one.

There are also those who can't afford a decent car, but have one anyway - but they give themselves away when they start asking about costs of things and how they react to the costs.

You could argue that they are being "money sensible', which is partly true. I mean why buy a $450 tyre for the Beemer X5, when you can buy one for $300?

But; my interpretation of this scenario is; in many cases they are over-extended on the car to begin with if the truth was really revealed.

 

[NedKelly]

I disagree.

To most people; more money to spend equals a better standard of living and lifestyle.

Better car, better clothes, better bikes for the kids, restaurants, holiday to the Theme Parks .

All the consumer items you propose to increase GST by 2% on, how does that help the battler achieve a better standard of living?

 

[NedKelly]

There are also those who can't afford a decent car, but have one anyway - but they give themselves away when they start asking about costs of things and how they react to the costs.

.

Yes, and these are the battlers who have no financial control, no financial intelligence, has too much week at the end of the money, and complains all the time about being broke, complains about the Boss and anyone who is perceived to be rich, and they like to say "I'll never be rich, but I'll be happy". They managed to buy the car because they signed up for a car loan at 20% p.a. and didn't think about the servicing and ongoing costs which will all increase by 2% if you increase GST to 12%.

 

[WattleIdo]

Just wondering ... are you Joe Hockey?

I don't think an extra few percent in their pay packet will increase their standard of living.

I wouldn't mind seeing the GST increased if we could bring down most of the other taxes. We would need to keep food and some basics tax free.
Overall, this would reduce consumerism and help the environment.

 

[hugh72]

If the multinationals paid their fair share there would be no need to consider increasing the GST

 

[jim1964]

Just wondering ... are you Joe Hockey

Classic comment!!!!! After next Tuesday smokin Joe will be looking for another gig.

 

[NedKelly]

Just wondering ... are you Joe Hockey?



I wouldn't mind seeing the GST increased if we could bring down most of the other taxes. We would need to keep food and some basics tax free.
Overall, this would reduce consumerism and help the environment.

If it is done so that the tax take is the same and the reduction in income tax is offset by the increase in GST then I can't see that it will make any difference.

 

[NedKelly]

If the multinationals paid their fair share there would be no need to consider increasing the GST

If the government didn't waste so much money and labor with the greens didn't continue to block the spending cuts in the senate then there would also be no need to consider increasing GST.

 

[WattleIdo]

If it is done so that the tax take is the same and the reduction in income tax is offset by the increase in GST then I can't see that it will make any difference.

The difference is that if you don't spend, you don't pay tax.

 

[Ed Barton]

If the multinationals paid their fair share there would be no need to consider increasing the GST

Or if we got rid of ridiculously generous tax concessions for high income earners in super.

 

[NedKelly]

The difference is that if you don't spend, you don't pay tax.

So what you are saying is that the battler, as described BayView "who has no financial control, no financial intelligence, has too much week at the end of the money, and complains all the time about being broke, complains about the Boss and anyone who is perceived to be rich, and they like to say "I'll never be rich, but I'll be happy" will now decide that rather than spend his extra income will magically change his habits and "save" the money rather than spend it. And all this because GST is 2% more, even though he has more money to spend.

 

[hugh72]

Or if we got rid of ridiculously generous tax concessions for high income earners in super.

I think this has already happened to some degree, not much room left to salary sacrifice and stay under the current caps until older anyway.

 

[WattleIdo]

NedKelly, if you would like to discuss something I've said, please quote what I've said exactly and don't add someone else's words and ideas. Cheers

 

[Ausprop]

Not entirely true, depreciation and franking credits both have gain and dont 'lose'

but never more than the tax that you would otherwise pay, so the statement holds true. franking credits are irrelevant anyway as that is just a form of consolidated assessment between an individual and a corporate

 

[NedKelly]

NedKelly, if you would like to discuss something I've said, please quote what I've said exactly and don't add someone else's words and ideas. Cheers

So what you are saying is that the battler will now decide that rather than spend his extra income will magically change his habits and "save" the money rather than spend it. And all this because GST is 2% more, even though he has more money to spend.

Is that easier for you?

 

[WattleIdo]

NK, at this point in time, in this thread, I haven't mentioned anything about 'battlers'.
My comment about tax was general and refers to anyone.
The Joe Hockey comment was referring to some comments of your own which show that you don't have much experience with people on very limited incomes. A few dollars a week can make a big difference.
If you'd like an intellectual political discussion, I would suggest you grab a beer at a pub and get into a bit of banter there. Or maybe you'll be lucky enough to come across someone intelligent and communicative like Bayview did.
There are plenty on the forum who would like to join in with you but you won't get the rate of to and fro and level of banter that I think you're after.
Have a good night