Hey Winston

There is a slight difference; Iran apparently have openly stated they would like to see Israel obliterated.

No difference. The U.S. has openly stated they would like to see the so-called Axis of Evil obliterated. Israel - with the full support of the U.S. - is openly obliterating Palestine. During the Vietnam War, the U.S. bombed Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia so ruthlessly that none of these countries will ever recover.

Mark
 
Originally Posted by BayView
There is a slight difference; Iran apparently have openly stated they would like to see Israel obliterated.



No difference. The U.S. has openly stated they would like to see the so-called Axis of Evil obliterated. Israel - with the full support of the U.S. - is openly obliterating Palestine. During the Vietnam War, the U.S. bombed Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia so ruthlessly that none of these countries will ever recover.

Mark


There is a bit of a difference.

Iran couldn't obliverate Israel if they decided to.

The US could obliverate the axis of evil completely with just the push of a few buttons. They have had this power for decades and have not yet used it. They have proved that they are responsible enough to have this power without abusing it.

How many other crackpot religious nutcase dictators would you trust with this power?

See ya's.
 
They have proved that they are responsible enough to have this power without abusing it.

How many other crackpot religious nutcase dictators would you trust with this power?

I actually lol'ed for real when I read the above.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

"George Bush has claimed he was on a mission from God when he launched the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, according to a senior Palestinian politician in an interview to be broadcast by the BBC later this month."

"One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

Crackpot religious nutcase dictators indeed....

There are plenty of examples of the abuse of this power in the last 50 years. I've already pointed out a few, could point out plenty more. But you would just brush them off TC, seeing as you are so determined to hold onto your 'The U.S. Govt. are perfect angels' view that you flat out refuse, based on your posts in this thread, to accept any evidence to the contrary.

Mark
 
. But you would just brush them off TC, seeing as you are so determined to hold onto your 'The U.S. Govt. are perfect angels'.

Mark


Not a fan of the US Govt and especially George dubbya. I just realise how lucky the world has been to have one completely dominant military power. No one for decades has had any hope of resisting the US military dominance, and that has been a great thing for world peace.

You don't want to see this dominance end. It won't be nice. But it probably will one day, and hopefully I won't be around to see it, as I will be just fertilizer.

See ya's.
 
Wow... do you actually live here?

So you wouldn't care if some oppressive government ruled the country and forced you, amongst others, to move to some hole west of Mount Isa and work as a subsistence farmer growing veges for the greater good of the country?

GP

and we say 'oppressive government' we mean exactly which government?
 
I just realise how lucky the world has been to have one completely dominant military power. No one for decades has had any hope of resisting the US military dominance, and that has been a great thing for world peace

mate where have you been for the past 60 years? up until 1991 there was no such thing as US military dominance, and i highly doubt there is now :)

US response to recent events quite clearly shows that their golden age is over.
 
GEE you people get so heated, well it sounds like it! anny way have you stoped the war yet?
for me , im for joe, joe the plumber that is!
 
mate where have you been for the past 60 years? up until 1991 there was no such thing as US military dominance, and i highly doubt there is now :)

US response to recent events quite clearly shows that their golden age is over.


We will agree to disagree then.

1991? The US was so far ahead of anyone then it wasn't funny and they showed that in the first gulf war.

I reckon the soviets were never much of a threat through the cold war. It was mainly US propaganda talking the soviet power up to justify the US expenditure, but I'm only guessing there.

No dominance now? As I said, we will agree to disagree.

See ya's.
 
We will agree to disagree then.

1991? The US was so far ahead of anyone then it wasn't funny and they showed that in the first gulf war.

I reckon the soviets were never much of a threat through the cold war. It was mainly US propaganda talking the soviet power up to justify the US expenditure, but I'm only guessing there.

No dominance now? As I said, we will agree to disagree.

See ya's.

I can tell you from the other side of the fence that US weren't talking it up ;)
They were talking up the likelihood of the direct military conflict between USSR and western world, but not the military power.

US have shown how far ahead they are in Vietnam and Korea. The whole world has seen it ;) In both gulf wars, as well as in Serbia, US has shown how it can bomb the country with virtually no anti-air defense.

At the moment US is only showing how superior it is at bombing civilians in large masses :D
 
At the moment US is only showing how superior it is at bombing civilians in large masses :D

Is this based on actual figures, or gleaned from the teev/net/radio/papers?

Why would the US bomb civilians ad-hoc?

Sure, there will missions where civilians are killed, and that is terrible, but the bad guys swan around (hiding actually) amongst the civilians, and the US know they are there, and if the civilians don't make efforts to get out of the way, the crossfire will find them occasionally, unfortunately.

They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Of course, we all know that the Yanks shouldn't be there at all.
 
when you say 'actual figures' which figures do you have in mind? of course i haven't counted the bodies personally, but it seems that different sources agree on the body count so with the lack of other information i assume it to be correct.

As to why would they bomb them - I'd say because they are to dumb to distinguish between the wedding and a pack of Taliban fighters.
It's kind hard to get out of the way of rocket when you don't even know it's been fired until it hits you.

i guess the main reason why civilian casualties are so high is because Yanks don't have any regard for other people's lives, so they fire at anything they deem suspicious without second thoughts.
 
when you say 'actual figures' which figures do you have in mind? of course i haven't counted the bodies personally, but it seems that different sources agree on the body count so with the lack of other information i assume it to be correct.

As to why would they bomb them - I'd say because they are to dumb to distinguish between the wedding and a pack of Taliban fighters.
It's kind hard to get out of the way of rocket when you don't even know it's been fired until it hits you.

i guess the main reason why civilian casualties are so high is because Yanks don't have any regard for other people's lives, so they fire at anything they deem suspicious without second thoughts.

By "getting out of the way" I mean; move away from the area because there is a war on, and we might get killed.

But they seem to be oblivious to this and simply keep on living life as normal, and then wonder why they get blown up. I'd be packing up and getting the hell outta there, well before the sounds of the US tanks could be heard; wouldn't you?

To say that the Yanks have no regard for people's lives is at best, very uninformed.

They are very generous and warm people from my experience; mostly like you and me.

Having said that, I reckon if I was a soldier in a stupid, senseless and useless war, watching my fellow soldiers getting blown apart by road-side bombs, and watching suicide bombers blow up buses full of children and innocent people, I'd find it very hard to not pull the trigger if I knew I could take out 20 or 50 bad guys in a town.

The problem over there is that the bad guys hide among the innocent (who won't leave the area) and taunt the Yanks into attacking.

If the Yanks don't attack, then the bad guys simply continue with their little sniper missions and the whole thing draws out for decades and decades.- just like Vietnam and others.

War is not fought anymore in uniforms with your team on one side of the field and my team on the other. The Yanks still do (fight in uniforms), but their enemies don't.

Now, everyone on their side is a bomb - disguised as women, children, old men etc. The enemy is invisible and paranoia (amongst US soldiers) is at dangerous levels.

You can't have you cake and eat it; if you want to hide in amongst the civilians and dress like them, then don't complain when the civilians get killed, and get the civilians out of there in the first place.

I'll bet the bad guys don't go around knocking on the doors in town and say; "hey, we're about to have a big war with the Yanks, so you innocent civilians better get outta here for your own safety, and we'll stay here completely exposed and fight them".
 
By "getting out of the way" I mean; move away from the area because there is a war on, and we might get killed.

But they seem to be oblivious to this and simply keep on living life as normal, and then wonder why they get blown up. I'd be packing up and getting the hell outta there, well before the sounds of the US tanks could be heard; wouldn't you?

Considering that Coalition occupied the whole country, do you suggest the whole country moves out? That's about 32mln people. Where? To Australia? Thank you very much, but no.

They are very generous and warm people from my experience; mostly like you and me.

They are. The ones that come here to work, live or as tourists. Not the ones that are in Afghanistan. In US, as well as many other countries with big armies, army for most people is usually the opportunity to get up the ladder. So the people who enlist are normally not the brightest stock.


Now, everyone on their side is a bomb - disguised as women, children, old men etc. The enemy is invisible and paranoia (amongst US soldiers) is at dangerous levels.

Hell, why not nuke the country, if everyone deserves it? We'll definitely take out a thousand or two of bad guys, and who cares about the other 32 mln of people? After all, it's their fault for not moving or for letting bad guys hide among them?

I'll bet the bad guys don't go around knocking on the doors in town and say; "hey, we're about to have a big war with the Yanks, so you innocent civilians better get outta here for your own safety, and we'll stay here completely exposed and fight them".

Aren't we claiming to be better than them? You know, more civilized and other crap like that? Isn't it why we are fighting them? Or are we just like them and all the hype is just a hypocrisy? In which case we probably should leave them alone?
 
US have shown how far ahead they are in Vietnam and Korea.

Macarthur was as near as damnit to a humiliating defeat in Korea and (according to my reading) the US suffered a humiliation in Vietnam.

You are correct when you say say they had technological superiority but Yank arrogance meant they could never capture the "hearts and minds" of the locals. They always worked on the concept that "When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow".

It didn't work. The Yanks are not benign invaders.
 
They are. The ones that come here to work, live or as tourists. Not the ones that are in Afghanistan. In US, as well as many other countries with big armies, army for most people is usually the opportunity to get up the ladder. So the people who enlist are normally not the brightest stock.

No, I'm talking about the several thousand of them I met while living there for 3 years.

Just because they are "not the brightest stock" who sign up doesn't mean they are bereft of compassion and emotion just like us. Many are jobless, hopeless and are conned into a better life if they enlist; it's a chance to get out of Detroit and get a job, serve the Country etc.

They don't have to enlist this is true, but the alternatives are pretty poor for these young men and women mostly.

Think about it; you go over to this wasteland of a country, hot, dry, windy in summer, cold, wet, desolate in winter, living in tent cities, on patrol all hours of the day, being sniped at all the time, seeing butchered corpses - yours and theirs everywhere....you get the picture.

Somewhere along the way the whole thing becomes dehumanised; the rest is tragic, and it happens on both sides of the rifles.
 
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