House Demolished without Demolition Permit - Advice?

[manny]

Hi there,

I recently engaged a demolition company to demolish a house for me (clear the site so that I can start building) & filled out all the relevant paperwork for them to obtain a demolition permit on my behalf, etc... I did all the other ground work, such as disconnecting power & gas, obtain a council consent (which they did indicate that the house is not heritage listed & can be demolished) & I did also obtain an Asset Protection permit (paying a bond to the council in case any we do damage any crossovers or paths). The Demolition company did go out & start demolishing the house & I asked them did they get a permit & they did say yes to me... I didn't think anything of it, but now that the house is totally removed (luckily they I haven't paid them yet as they need to finish removing the driveway/concrete, etc.) I happened to drop by the local council to ask about the status of the building permit & as the demolition guy does seem a little dodgy (that is another story) I asked if they received the application for a demolition permit & they said that they haven't received anything (I didn't tell them the house is gone, hopefully he can get his application through before they notice)...

I confronted the demolition guy & he called his surveyor & said that he should get it any day now (contrary to him telling me that he obtained a permit before starting the demolition process)... The question now is, is there a reason for me to be worried? Should I hold off paying him till he provides me with evidence of a demolition permit (this is what I'm inclined to do, however feel bad due to the amount of work they have done to remove the house & know their tipping costs are way more than the deposit)? Oh, almost forgot to mention this, he wants payment in cash, so I'd be concerned that after he receives payment he would just do a runner & then I will be stuck with a site without a house & had no demolition permit obtained to perform such works...

In addition to the above, we had a fixed term quote stating that the price includes the removal of all Aspestus off the site & now has been hinting that more aspestus was found on the site than expected & now wants another couple of grand. I haven't said yes or no, but what would you do in such circumstances?

There is more to this, but I'll put it all together in a nice readable document once I'm finished with the whole building process (as this project will be an owner builder project, so will have lots to add)...

Cheers,

Manny.

 

[toony]

I would withhold payment till a permit from council has been sited and you have a copy. As the permit was their responsibility I would imagine you should be entitled to withhold payment till you have the permit.

I dont know what the implications are with the council but to me the risks sound high if the council finds out you have no permit and the property has gone.

I would proceed on the side of caution.

As for the asbestos. Did the quote menton how much asbestos there was to remove. If not, I dont reckon he is entitled to further payment. If so, how can they tell you how much was actually removed and paid for its disposal.

 

[sailor]

Does this guy have a license to handle asbestos?

Gee, he does sound a bit dodgy...doesn't he!

I would protect myself, by waiting until the permit comes through before paying him. And on another note, if you don't have a tax invoice from him, and you pay in cash, will the cost of demolition be a tax deduction for you?

Do you have a signed contract with him regarding what will be done and how much it will cost?

 

[manny]

Hi Toony,

thanx for your prompt reply...

In terms of the wording on the quote re: the asbestos, it states: "To remove asbestos surrounding house and any asbestos on the property". The wording sounds like he has no leg to stand on, however I am not disclosing anything till the job is done & finished...

Actually what he said is: "I didn't realise there was asbestos in the kitchen & bath & the now that it is all crushed up with other parts of the house, there is now 7 tons of asbestos related rubble, which now costs him $385 a ton to dump at the tip". I was going to say that it is his problem & should be crushing walls with his machine IF he doesn't know if it contains asbestos, but as mentioned earlier, I want to see this finish before debating over this...

Cheers,

Manny.

 

[manny]

Hi Sailor,

thanx for your reply... he claims he is licenced to handle asbestos, but that is what he said over the phone (just like he said that he obtained a permit before commencing work)...

In terms of a contract, we have his signed quote and I have signed the "consent for Demolition" forms that are needed for him to obtain a demolition permit on my behalf...

In terms of a tax invoice, the property will be a PPOR, so wasn't too fussed, but will now be asking for one... By the way, my wife dropped off a $2k deposit & he had no receipt book with him, so got my wife (she called me quickly to see what to do) to get a hand written receipt with his name & signature, which we have... the money was in cash (as that is what he preferred, as he would use this deposit for tipping fees)...

Note: due to the above & other things I noted got me looking into the permit (which he didn't have)... Oh, almost forgot, his quote has a stamp stating he is part of the builder practitioner board, but I called on Friday & he isn't registered under his name (although these licences are issued to individuals, not business, the director may be licenced?)... I suppose we will see if he really is licenced, as he will need to be in order to obtain a demolition permit in Vic...

Cheers,

Manny.

 

[JFisher]

Hi Manny
If you want to check his licence with the BC then just ask him what type of licence he has.... For example ours is DB-U15261; which stands for domestic builder unlimited. A demolisher would have a licence starting with BD-L (for low rise), BD-M (for medium rise) and BD-U for 'unlimited' demolition status. Part of the licencing for demolition can include asbestos removal and this info will be available from the BC. Licences are only given to individuals, not to companies or trading names; so if you cannot find him by his personal name he himself is not registered (although he could have another licenced person working for his company or partnership which would be ok).
In your case, if the demolition contractor was licenced he would have known that as soon as he mixed contaminated waste with other waste that all the waste would be deemed contaminated and would need to incur the increased fees.
I wouldn't pay a thing until the demolition cert is approved, and unless stated in the contract that it may be varied, you shouldn't pay any extra for the additional asbestos removal.
You could also ask him what type of asbestos licence he has, there are two; one for friable asbestos and one for unfriable asbestos. They are class A and class B respectively.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Time for you to call the shots and put a time limit on the matter. If you leave the time thing open ended, he'll play games.

Tell him you intend to make a formal complaint to your state's building authority, if you don't have the demo permit by the end of the week.

Tell him you shall get your lawyer's opinion about the disputed charge for additional asbestos removal.

Tell him you are not paying anything until you get the demo permit, or failing that, have reviewed the matter with the building authority and your solicitor.

Jerks like this like to try it on, and need to be dealt with hard. He'll play you for a waddling wood duck until you deal with him decisively and strongly.
If he wants to up the ante, report him to the tax dept too.
I'd also let every REA and tradie in the area know he is a jerk, and the council.

 

[redsquash]

Why did you want a fixed quote?.....so you knew exactly what you would pay.

Why did he give you a fixed quote?.....so he knew precisely how much work he would have to do.

If you aren't going to abide by the quote then why did you bother to get one.

Are you responsible for other peoples business incompetence?

When the conditions of the quote have been met , then keep your side of the bargain

 

[silversands]

hi. just finished reading this thread. I would love to know the outcome. Can you advise us how this matter turned out?

Thx regards Jodie.

 

[manny]

Hi Jodie,

Apologies for the late post... It all worked out kind of OK at the end... a demolition permit was issued on completion (after I did complain) & we did split the difference in relation to the "extra" charge... looking back now, I should of told him to stick it, but that's history now (although the price I did pay at the end was still better than many of the other quotes that did specify that they would charge extra if they did also encounter extra Aspestos)...

Cheers,

Manny.

 

[undercover]

where?

Hi Jodie,

Apologies for the late post... It all worked out kind of OK at the end... a demolition permit was issued on completion (after I did complain) & we did split the difference in relation to the "extra" charge... looking back now, I should of told him to stick it, but that's history now (although the price I did pay at the end was still better than many of the other quotes that did specify that they would charge extra if they did also encounter extra Aspestos)...

Cheers,

Lucky! I work as a planning compliance officer for a local council and often deal with cases like these, were a house or tree has been removed before the application has be sent to council. (I recommend the land owner to do this and not the contractor to save trouble)

Most of time we just issue a fine (about $600 of a person $ 1100 for company) or more at the courts if council wants to push the issue. But the worse case is that any future developments which are applied for, the town planner will be aware of that such works were done without prior approval and it can hold up your application and require strict open space, landscape plans.

(Victoria anyway)