Just curious TF, apart from your PPOR, do you own other residential or commercial property? How does a high flyer like yourself invest their money? Shares, cash, gold, businesses etc... ?
House prices
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Just curious TF, apart from your PPOR, do you own other residential or commercial property? How does a high flyer like yourself invest their money? Shares, cash, gold, businesses etc... ?
Not any more. Sold down everything in 06, purely because the whole purpose of my investments (shares and a couple of accidental inv. properties) was to get back to a debt-free existence.
I've never rented,paid off my first PPOR before I was 30 and enjoyed the debt-free vibe. Travelled with my Darling Wife, got a taste for good wine and enjoyed not worrying scheduled repayments to *anyone*.
Somewhat ironically for someone in my profession, I've never liked debt and have always chosen to spend less than I earn. Of course, if everyone was like me, I wouldn't have a job
Down side: have less stuff than my peers
Up side: I have less stress than my peers and simply don't think about money much.
The Buddhists were on to something, methinks.
Not any more. Sold down everything in 06, purely because the whole purpose of my investments (shares and a couple of accidental inv. properties) was to get back to a debt-free existence.
I've never rented,paid off my first PPOR before I was 30 and enjoyed the debt-free vibe. Travelled with my Darling Wife, got a taste for good wine and enjoyed not worrying scheduled repayments to *anyone*.
Somewhat ironically for someone in my profession, I've never liked debt and have always chosen to spend less than I earn. Of course, if everyone was like me, I wouldn't have a job
Down side: have less stuff than my peers
Up side: I have less stress than my peers and simply don't think about money much.
The Buddhists were on to something, methinks.
I think that's great. I like that philosophy too. Most here don't like their day to day jobs and are unsatisfied in various ways and so it becomes a race for ''financial freedom'' to escape the daily grind... which usually involves accumulating more debt. Then the question arises of how much is enough, and the cycle carries on for years until some vague endpoint is reached. I suppose if what you really need is less (relatively), and what you already have is enough, and not primarily measured by $$...... anyway, perhaps the subject of another thread!
Property Prices
Hi!
Very intresting read to know the view of various forum members.
As someone who is new, but has recently bought couple of IP's. A long term, buy and hold strategy should be pretty safe, I guess as long as we do not over stretch.
Regards
Hi!
Very intresting read to know the view of various forum members.
As someone who is new, but has recently bought couple of IP's. A long term, buy and hold strategy should be pretty safe, I guess as long as we do not over stretch.
Regards
One of the greatest things about forums is diverse opinions and it's always amazing to see people get so defensive and dismiss anything they don't like to hear.
You ask what would a "fund manager" such as JP Morgan would know about property.
For starters, one of the things that - to be precise - asset managers and private wealth advisors of JP Morgan do is manage property. In fact, they don't just manage your one or two IPs because they don't deal with middle class. But rather these teams deal with institutions, HNWI and VHNWI. JP Morgan publishes reports on economic outlook and property markets because these HNWI and VHNWI are interested in reading them, as a lot have invested in property and JP Morgan is helping to manage them. So it's rather surprising that you think the local real estate agent harping on about how great property is commands more attention for his words than JP Morgan. The only conclusion I can draw out of that is you are perhaps not a HNWI or VNWI, and you don't deal with institutional investors.
On a side note, JP Morgan is not just a "broker" but rather what we call a global bank. Broking, believe it or not, is actually a puny puny business of JP Morgan's. It is actually a depository taking institution (what we term ADIs in Australia) and gives out as many mortgages as whatever bank is financing your house I'd imagine. Here's a dummy's guide on who they are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPMorgan_Chase
Note one part says "JP Morgan Chase is one of the Big Four Banks of the United States with Bank of America, Citigroup and Wells Fargo."
Now I could point to many other examples of why they would have knowledge in property. Now here's a recent story on how JP Morgan is involved in property: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25979313-25658,00.html
Someone just poached JP Morgan's "property team" to replace another team of 13 people, which was poached by someone else for A$27m. That means on average each person gets paid $2m. People don't get paid $2m to bash a sector they have no idea about.
It's always frustrating when people here harp on about things they have zilch idea about and are so dismissive of people who don't share their views. For the record I am not a bear, but just trying to instill some real facts rather than gross misstatements.
Hi Everyone,
In January 2009 I had a report that outlined various parts of Australia house prices/net house hold income. This report compared many areas to places around the world.
The results were some areas in australia were house prices were on a 4 times household net income whilst other areas were upto 8 times household income.
This was a great report, it was probably 40 odd pages.
I have had trouble locating this, Its been deleted of my hard drive at work and ive emailed a few people who i remember emailing a copy to yet havent heard back as yet.
Just wondering if anyone has a similiar if not this report, i would love to get a hold of it again
In January 2009 I had a report that outlined various parts of Australia house prices/net house hold income. This report compared many areas to places around the world.
The results were some areas in australia were house prices were on a 4 times household net income whilst other areas were upto 8 times household income.
This was a great report, it was probably 40 odd pages.
I have had trouble locating this, Its been deleted of my hard drive at work and ive emailed a few people who i remember emailing a copy to yet havent heard back as yet.
Just wondering if anyone has a similiar if not this report, i would love to get a hold of it again
Not any more. Sold down everything in 06, purely because the whole purpose of my investments (shares and a couple of accidental inv. properties) was to get back to a debt-free existence.
I've never rented,paid off my first PPOR before I was 30 and enjoyed the debt-free vibe. Travelled with my Darling Wife, got a taste for good wine and enjoyed not worrying scheduled repayments to *anyone*.
Somewhat ironically for someone in my profession, I've never liked debt and have always chosen to spend less than I earn. Of course, if everyone was like me, I wouldn't have a job
Down side: have less stuff than my peers
Up side: I have less stress than my peers and simply don't think about money much.
The Buddhists were on to something, methinks.
Thanks for sharing.
Don't you think you could achieve more if you used debt to your benefit? Note this is coming from someone who likes high (90%) leverage (with big cash buffers).
Or do you have 'enough'?
HI, just wondering, not trying to be facetious or denigrating.
TF, is being debt free also being a slave to a job?
Will you & your family have the same lifestyle if your earned income stops?
KY
TF, is being debt free also being a slave to a job?
Will you & your family have the same lifestyle if your earned income stops?
KY
Quite possibly. Just not my style.
And I don't want to come across as not having an accumlative streak. I have my fair share of stuff and expenditure that others might find excessive.
I'm just not prepared to create significant obligations to the rest of the world or place pressure on me or the family to support a sudden need for ivory back-scratchers or a new Audi-because-the-three-series-bimmer-is-just-so-2004.
Having had the good luck to spend time with people from just about every point on the wealth scale, I came to the conclusion some time ago that unless wealth of and by itself makes you happy, once you have what you need, there's simply no correllation between cash and happiness.
It sounds trite but after you've had dinner with a guy worth $50M who is on the brink of tears because he's not sure his prospective wife is after the cash or him, you tend to take the view that most of us *really* need the same things and they are all pretty basic.
Of course, what you need is a moveable feast and the often what you thought would be enough 2 years ago, simply doesn't seem quite enough when you finally get there. Yesterday's perfection is today's inadequacy.
So I just try to focus on what really matters: a house I like in a neighbourhood full I people I like, happy kids that value time with me more than stuff I bring home in the suitcase and recognising that the accumulation of stuff should be measured against the accumulation of stress.
Oh, and the odd trip to Vegas
To each their own.
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Very confusing post...
Wealth and happiness are not mutually exclusive... I think all forumites know that.
Most of us have what a decent human being needs to survive in a stress free environment.
The chase, the hunt or the thrill of accumulation and building on wealth (whilst appears to be a zero sum game to the outsiders) is more addictive for a few of us. It does not mean that we are not having fun or that our family lives are not as enriching or just by the accumulation of debt we somehow have fleeced others and become bad human beings... Put simply it is a desire to keep rising, to keep flourishing and to bask in the satisfaction which comes only by hitting serious milestones.
$50m guy in tears for a personal problem does not say anything. Perhaps you need to meet some seriously rich and happy folks.
I am sure a lot of men have problems independent of their wealth status and for someone to shed a tear or 2 about such a personal issue is just fine -
This cannot be linked somehow with a desire to accummulate and to constantly strive for the highest ground (whatever that nirvana may be).
As a tail note I agree with majority of your content (regarding keeping the priorities in life right) ... but looking at the majority of your posts in this forum, it just appears to be very confusing...
Harris
Wealth and happiness are not mutually exclusive... I think all forumites know that.
Most of us have what a decent human being needs to survive in a stress free environment.
The chase, the hunt or the thrill of accumulation and building on wealth (whilst appears to be a zero sum game to the outsiders) is more addictive for a few of us. It does not mean that we are not having fun or that our family lives are not as enriching or just by the accumulation of debt we somehow have fleeced others and become bad human beings... Put simply it is a desire to keep rising, to keep flourishing and to bask in the satisfaction which comes only by hitting serious milestones.
$50m guy in tears for a personal problem does not say anything. Perhaps you need to meet some seriously rich and happy folks.
I am sure a lot of men have problems independent of their wealth status and for someone to shed a tear or 2 about such a personal issue is just fine -
This cannot be linked somehow with a desire to accummulate and to constantly strive for the highest ground (whatever that nirvana may be).
As a tail note I agree with majority of your content (regarding keeping the priorities in life right) ... but looking at the majority of your posts in this forum, it just appears to be very confusing...
Harris
Quite possibly. Just not my style.
And I don't want to come across as not having an accumlative streak. I have my fair share of stuff and expenditure that others might find excessive.
I'm just not prepared to create significant obligations to the rest of the world or place pressure on me or the family to support a sudden need for ivory back-scratchers or a new Audi-because-the-three-series-bimmer-is-just-so-2004.
Having had the good luck to spend time with people from just about every point on the wealth scale, I came to the conclusion some time ago that unless wealth of and by itself makes you happy, once you have what you need, there's simply no correllation between cash and happiness.
It sounds trite but after you've had dinner with a guy worth $50M who is on the brink of tears because he's not sure his prospective wife is after the cash or him, you tend to take the view that most of us *really* need the same things and they are all pretty basic.
Of course, what you need is a moveable feast and the often what you thought would be enough 2 years ago, simply doesn't seem quite enough when you finally get there. Yesterday's perfection is today's inadequacy.
So I just try to focus on what really matters: a house I like in a neighbourhood full I people I like, happy kids that value time with me more than stuff I bring home in the suitcase and recognising that the accumulation of stuff should be measure against the accumulation of stress.
Oh, and the odd trip to Vegas
To each their own.
Hi all,
"Wealthy", "Successful", "enough money for happy living" etc are very subjective terms.
For example, I consider Kiyosaki as a wealthy and successful man. Wealthy because he has $$$$ and successful because people read his books and attend his seminars and they pay him for that as well.
And imo wealth and success go hand in hand.
Does anybody know any unwealthy investor writing books and doing seminars?
Regards
Sanjay
"Wealthy", "Successful", "enough money for happy living" etc are very subjective terms.
For example, I consider Kiyosaki as a wealthy and successful man. Wealthy because he has $$$$ and successful because people read his books and attend his seminars and they pay him for that as well.
And imo wealth and success go hand in hand.
Does anybody know any unwealthy investor writing books and doing seminars?
Regards
Sanjay
No
No
Everyone measures it differently. Some by how much they own/have, others by how happy they are.
Some people SEEM successful if you measure success by material things.
I go to Bali often. I sponsor 2 children there. They live in a 2 room house (they are lucky). Mum and dad sleep in a bed in the main room which is also dads workshop. Kids have a room at the back. Kitchen is on the verandah.
Dad is SO proud. He does wood carving. He made me a lovely sign for my house and I've never seen anyone so happy to present me my gift. It is a treasured part of my house.
He has a lovely family, a modest home and a good job.
THAT is success.
A few years back there was a very smart "Economist" that would post in this site from time to time,and he had a saying" Success is a state of Mind",sort of stuck in my mind that one,when i used to fix up the plumbing at a Buddhism Temple out the back of Logan Village they had a sign on the wall in the kitchen,excessive desire is the cause of all suffering,and knowing how to be satisfied with what we have is the cure for that suffering..willair..
JIT it certainly is possible to be a successful monk and if that floats your boat then go for it!
I think there are a number of concepts that need to be clarified like:
- Wealth and success - not the same thing as per above.
- Debt and stress - there is no reason debt should be associated with stress when used correctly - I would be looking very critically at my own mindset if I started to associate the two in this way.
- Wealth and happiness - again not the same thing but being rich and happy sure beats being poor and happy.
- Investing and time with the kids - The reason I invest is so I can spend more time with the kids, which may pay off in the not too distant future. Being at work 9-5 is a very serious impediment to having a close relationship with my kids.
- Wealth and other priorities - There is no reason you can't be wealthy and also have a happy marriage and family, exercise well, catch up with friends etc etc. Just have to find the path that facilitates that - working overtime to get wealthy wouldn't qualify there IMO as an example.
And yes, house prices are definitely rising in some markets!
I think there are a number of concepts that need to be clarified like:
- Wealth and success - not the same thing as per above.
- Debt and stress - there is no reason debt should be associated with stress when used correctly - I would be looking very critically at my own mindset if I started to associate the two in this way.
- Wealth and happiness - again not the same thing but being rich and happy sure beats being poor and happy.
- Investing and time with the kids - The reason I invest is so I can spend more time with the kids, which may pay off in the not too distant future. Being at work 9-5 is a very serious impediment to having a close relationship with my kids.
- Wealth and other priorities - There is no reason you can't be wealthy and also have a happy marriage and family, exercise well, catch up with friends etc etc. Just have to find the path that facilitates that - working overtime to get wealthy wouldn't qualify there IMO as an example.
And yes, house prices are definitely rising in some markets!
Very true. I'm not sure why so many in society believe that being rich equates to being inadequate or unhappy in other areas of life such as family. Perhaps to convince themselves they'd rather not have money? Being rich must mean you're unhappy, or you have no free time, or your kids hate you, only after your money?
This theory is then perpetuated by the press (give the people what they want) - how many gossip magazines are published each week, tabloid tv etc screaming from the roof tops how such and such is unhappy? Then people jump all over stories like how James Packer has fared poorly the last year.
Think I'll choose wealthy and happy, beats poor and happy any day.
