How many properties can you manage ?

[BeYourOwnAgent]

It all comes down to systems, organisation, and a bit of energy at the start to learn the processes and how things work.

To be honest it's all common sense.

Run on an average management fee of $130 per month, which = approximately $1,500 per year, without taking into account letting fee, statement fee etc.

When I ran my own agency, the average all in fees per client were around $2,000 per year.

Each property manager had a minimum of 150, my senior PM's managed 200 properties, and we had close to 100% retention with our clients.

This works out to less than an hour a month per property, which = $130 per hour for a PM to look after each clients properties.

It doesn't take an hour a month to manage a property on your own; I now self manage, and I've spent maybe an hour in the past 3 months on all of my properties (I own 11). This was 1 x maintenance request and 1 x pest spray (all of which I sent through to my tradie + pest spray company).

Rent increases take next to no time; do a bit of market research on real estate and send the comparables to your tenant with the rent increase letter and copy of the new lease.

Re-letting will come around, at most, once a year - if you have long term tenants, even less. Save the money you will spend on a letting fee, and pay a professional photographer to come through and take photos, which you will then re-use for the next few years.

So to answer your question, for 99% of landlords, self management is practical and achievable.

If you have multiple properties, it becomes even more attractive to save the fees, as you will be looking at thousands and thousands a year in savings, which you can use to improve your property, or put towards your next investment.

 

[HotRod]

Until the doo doo hits the rotating cooling device and then there's a new thread with the word "help" in it.

Running around without a PM is like having no insurance on your car.

Everything's fine and dandy until one day you need it.

 

[The Fence]

Well there ya go, we disagree again Rod.

We have had that happen on a few occasions and it was we, not the PM we had at the time, that got us out of "trouble".

It depends upon the level of competence your PM displays whereas we just prefer to ENSURE things are run smoothly by eliminating any incompetence from external management.

This will go round and round arguing over whether you want or don't want to self manage, but the question is, how many IF you self manage.

 

[HotRod]

Well as learned people have said, about 200.

That will be fun.

I take the view PIing is a means to an end which is kicking my heals up, not stuck under a sink with my heals hanging out.

 

[The Fence]

Fair enough Rod, you don't like self managing, other learned people do.
There is no need to make out its lame.

Those who do self manage are responding to the OP who is trying to gain some "experience" from those gone before them.

 

[BeYourOwnAgent]

It all comes down to personal choice.

For me, there is no way I'll spend over $2,000 a month on management fees, when the majority of the time it's simply rent collection.

The issues are never complicated or hard enough for me to warrant paying those sort of fees.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Some people do their own renovations.
Some people do their own taxes.
Some people fix their own cars.
Some people bake their own bread.
Some people do these things for economic reasons, or their own satisfaction.
Everybody's situation is different, no right or wrong.

 

[Jen_PFR]

Some people do their own renovations.
Some people do their own taxes.
Some people fix their own cars.
Some people bake their own bread.
Some people do these things for economic reasons, or their own satisfaction.
Everybody's situation is different, no right or wrong.

Agree with this completely.

 

[Dazz]

the few $$$ it costs us is definately not worth the hassle.

When I hear people say things like this, the only thing that crosses my mind is "you're obviously not playing the IP game very well."

Anyone who only pays a few $$$ for management fees is either ;

• Collecting bugger all in rent, or
• Collecting bugger all in rent

Once the numbers get substantial, you might change your mind slipping someone a fat % for doing bugger all......

Hmmph, a few $$$ - piffle.

 

[Archer]

I have self managed between 3 and 6 properties constantly since 1994. I have read the Act and made myself familiar with the legislation, it is not complicated. There are brochures and information from fair trading which further explain how to deal with certain issues.

I have sourced my own tenants through ads in the local papers (not in the last few years) and internet (only had to use gumtree in the last few years). I hold a home open normally 2 weeks from the end of the lease. I follow up all references and don't lease to anyone without them.

I have only ever had to serve a notice for late payment once in all those years and it was complied with. I have not had anyone do a runner.

Over the years i have developed a good list of tradies that I trust so when there is a problem it generally just takes a phone call to deal with.

It's probably not for everyone but if you have the confidence and ability to deal with people in a firm but professional manner it is a relatively straight forward process. Mgmt fees can run well north of 12% with all the add ons in Perth, so over the years i would have saved a significant amount.

 

[kathryn d]

We self manage 40 IPs.

If we had to pay a PM at 8% a month, our fees would be $2k a month.

 

[C-mac]

As others have done; I have all of my properties managed by professional agencies. But I want to think/talk about management beyond that.

At what point does a portfolio get so big that you need to hire a manager to manage all of the various managers? Has anyone ever reached this point. I only have 5 properties managed by a total of 3 different agents. But as an investor, your responsibilities go so far beyond just 'managing these managers' to make sure the rents come in and repairs are tended to.

Imagine managing dozens of agents across say a 100-property portfolio! That in itself would be a full time job. You'd literally log in at 9am and be back-and-forthing emails all day long between you and all of the managers, whilst also doing all of your procurement, finance/invoices, working with your accountant weekly, and also finding time to do research to procure more property etc. Even if you enlisted just one agency (one of those national management companies that claim they can manage all of your properties no matter what postcode these are in, in any state), you are still starved for time.

But then, I guess by this point, one would have given up their 9-5 dayjob anyway and replaced it with working in their pj's on the couch on their tablet device

Still; my question remains; how many properties before you either give up your dayjob to do 'managing the managers' full time, or appointing a manager to manage them full time for you? 20? 30?

 

[russellpeter]

As others have done; I have all of my properties managed by professional agencies. But I want to think/talk about management beyond that.

At what point does a portfolio get so big that you need to hire a manager to manage all of the various managers? Has anyone ever reached this point. I only have 5 properties managed by a total of 3 different agents. But as an investor, your responsibilities go so far beyond just 'managing these managers' to make sure the rents come in and repairs are tended to.

Imagine managing dozens of agents across say a 100-property portfolio! That in itself would be a full time job. You'd literally log in at 9am and be back-and-forthing emails all day long between you and all of the managers, whilst also doing all of your procurement, finance/invoices, working with your accountant weekly, and also finding time to do research to procure more property etc. Even if you enlisted just one agency (one of those national management companies that claim they can manage all of your properties no matter what postcode these are in, in any state), you are still starved for time.

But then, I guess by this point, one would have given up their 9-5 dayjob anyway and replaced it with working in their pj's on the couch on their tablet device

Still; my question remains; how many properties before you either give up your dayjob to do 'managing the managers' full time, or appointing a manager to manage them full time for you? 20? 30?

If you had 100 properties it would be easier to just hire a full time Property manager to manage them for you. if they are not all local you could outsource the inspections. would be cheaper and give you control while not doing the work.

Regarding the question how many properties can you manage

I could easily do 200 if this was all i was doing but limit my staff to 100 and i only manage around 50 at the moment.

I have a couple of investments myself and i refuse to manage them.

much easier to to be separated from the tenants and hatted doing opens on my own property.

but that just me.

 

[geoffw]

You could do a Nathan when you get a late portfolio- and start your own agency to look after your properties.

 

[Deltaberry]

When I hear people say things like this, the only thing that crosses my mind is "you're obviously not playing the IP game very well."

Anyone who only pays a few $$$ for management fees is either ;

• Collecting bugger all in rent, or
• Collecting bugger all in rent

Once the numbers get substantial, you might change your mind slipping someone a fat % for doing bugger all......

Hmmph, a few $$$ - piffle.

Actually lots of people collecting big rent use agents. I'm talking 7 figures or 8 figures of course.

 

[jenni_nextplace]

The age old debate

Depends if you are a Principal

Principal would say 160.

Real Estate educators say between 60 to 90 if you are managing all on your own. 90 to 120 if you have a group assistant/receptionist, or 160 if you have an assistant. Keep in mind fully furnished take more time, also the systems and processes you have in place also make a huge difference in the number you can manage.

 

[Curlytops]

I manage 20 of my brothers and nephews properties. There are two in with a PM for different reasons and I end up micro managing them. Dont like PM's attached to RE office but have no choice here. So studying to get my licence and start my own PM business.

 

[BeYourOwnAgent]

Depends if you are a Principal

Principal would say 160.

Real Estate educators say between 60 to 90 if you are managing all on your own. 90 to 120 if you have a group assistant/receptionist, or 160 if you have an assistant. Keep in mind fully furnished take more time, also the systems and processes you have in place also make a huge difference in the number you can manage.

I respectfully have to disagree.

Average portfolio across all agencies I've encountered is 150 - up to 200 if it's a senior PM with an assistant.

At 60 - 90 properties the numbers simply don't work - especially in places like Sydney where fees are at or below 5%.

A PM, with good systems and experience has absolutely no problems with 150 properties, and that includes appraisals / inspections etc.

 

[Proper_T]

As many as you like.

I currently manage 9 units in Sydney around a full time job. Not that difficult. For me it is about delegating and finding a good team of tradesmen. 3 reason why I managed the family portfolio is because I enjoyed it, saved a bit of cash and I was able to achieve above average returns. Tho.. I feel there comes a point in time where you may become time poor, hence why I am looking for a good PM to take over so I can spend my days with my newly wife

As a result of managing the last 5 years, I gained insight on what agents do - so I don't get the runaround!

You can manage as many or as little as you like - comes down to your priorities and how you want to spend your days or nights!

 

[economist99]

I self manage 2 and it's really easy - both inner city Sydney and easy tenants; both tenants my demographic; young and university educated, white collar.

We communicate via email; I give them gifts; treat them like clients; they love it.

I used to manage up to 8-10 myself but it got too much and a massive headache, especially with regional houses and crap tenants in Lismore, Orange etc. I had some amazing tenants in rural QLD. Just luck.

Im low income so prefer to manage myself as not currently working. I also enjoy it and like to protect my tenants from RE agents, something they deeply appreciate!!! However if it got too much ro a huge problem came along I would engage an agent to buffer myself.