How much can people really earn?

[sash]

Well 200k...translates into about 128k after tax.

At this level you are trading time for money. I need both.

From my experience.....200k does come with a lot of stresses.

It would be better to earn 150k with high tax effectiveness (property deductions and depreciation) with a net of the same amount.

This could be done with about $7m in property with about $2.5 in debt.

Let's not generalise either.

Not all people on 200k pa are in a job that is going to dissapate quickly either.

Cheers

Rooster

 

[our obsession]

...and just for fun:

Hospital cleaners worth more to society than City bankers, says new nef research

14 December 2009

New method calculates social value of different jobs: think-tank advocates a fundamental rethink of how the value of work is recognised and rewarded.

Excerpt:

As City bankers plan how to spend their generous Christmas bonuses, a report from nef (the new economics foundation) published today, Monday 14 December 2009, unveils a new method for calculating the true value to society of different jobs.

A Bit Rich? Calculating the real value to society of different professions questions whether pay reflects the true value of different jobs and shatters some of the myths used to justify high pay.

Controversy over bankers’ bonuses raises fundamental questions, not just about the pay of senior executives, but also about the relative value of everyone’s work in society. A Bit Rich? brings an entirely new perspective to this issue, using a robust valuation method, Social Return on Investment, to quantify the social, environmental and economic impacts of six professions, looking at how each produces – or destroys – value for society. For each activity, the analysis measures the conventional economic returns, including job creation, but adds in, for example, attributable environmental degradation, and changes in well-being – either positive or negative - to individuals and communities in wider society. The research reveals that overall

Rest is here:

http://www.neweconomics.org/press-r...re-society-city-bankers-says-new-nef-research

 

[natmarie73]

Unfortunately the most important jobs in society are very low paid considering the importance and stresses of the work they do. I'm talking about paramedics, teachers, police, nurses etc etc.

Just imagine if all these low income earners decided to study to become IT gurus or bankers - we'd all be ****ed frankly. We are lucky that some people chose their jobs not for the financial rewards but because they want to make a difference to society and help people.

 

[Peter Parker]

Unfortunately the most important jobs in society are very low paid considering the importance and stresses of the work they do. I'm talking about paramedics, teachers, police, nurses etc etc.

Just imagine if all these low income earners decided to study to become IT gurus or bankers - we'd all be ****ed frankly.

That is true - and it's not just a matter of your office not being cleaned or queuing up for a waiter at a cafe.

The scarcity of service workers (and housing for them within easy commuting distance of the cities they serve, especially when they're on call or work odd hours) could and does lead to the following:

1. Upward pressure on the wages of the service workers who do remain (if the government, who mostly pays for them) shells out

2. Higher taxes due to the above

3. If 1. doesn't happen (eg government doesn't bump up taxes and prefers to shed staff) service levels and staffing will fall

4a. Where people go the private option (health or education) there is higher willingness to pay so there is a chance of 1. more than 3.

4b. This creates a 'brain drain' within the government sector as service workers are lured by better pay elsewhere (either private sector or in another industry).

5. Greater automation/mechanisation of human services (already happened in areas like banking and happening in retail with self-serve checkouts)

6. Immigration relaxed with big inflows of European-style 'guest workers' (457 visas). The 457 & 'skilled migration' category will be extended to more essential service workers as well as just the high end.

 

[cloudyday]

Unfortunately the most important jobs in society are very low paid considering the importance and stresses of the work they do. I'm talking about paramedics, teachers, police, nurses etc etc.

Yes, you're 100% right. The world would fall apart if these guys walked off their jobs. The daily coffee I drink, who'd make it? the farmers who produce the milk and the delivery guys who deliver it from the farm to the markets? Many things we take for granted everyday is made possible because of these valuable people. The problem with society, is that it does not reward these people. The system works on supply/demand and usually gives higher rewards to those who take advantage of economies of scale.

For example, music producers, movie producers, software publishers, singers, book writers, actors are at the top of the scale because they take advantage of leveraging. They spend time on 1 product, and it gets widely replicated. They just sit back and watch the the royalty/money roll in.

The others at the top are usually there through time and expertise. Your average Joe can't jump in and be an anesthesiologist and earn $500k/year (this is the average salary for these guys), it requires nearly a decade of studying. Bankers, while getting a lot of slack, usually spend years and only rise to the top based on their performance.

Your average cleaner and nurse are important but, the pay is average because 1) anyone can step in and be replaced. 2) demand/supply

 

[Lil Skater]

Just noticed about the hairdresser part.

I actually used to work as an apprentice hairdresser. Bad pay, but i was working in Double Bay, right in the city, many of the clients were snobby.

But it was well over $100 just for our 4th year apprentice to cut your hair (trained maily by Jo Bailey), let alone the boss.

 

[poordeveloper]

$240k USD/year for side projects is pretty good imo. He prob makes another $200k+ from his main job.

I'm a software engineer and have worked for companies in Australia, US and UK. USD$240K for two months work would be highly unusual. I know people who have worked for US hedge funds (highest paying industry I can think of) and their remuneration is nothing like that.

Also, as much as the media likes to write about the 20 year old whiz kid who developed some ground breaking software all on his own, most of the high paying skills in IT actually take years of education and industry experience to develop.

Not saying your colleague doesn't earn this much - but he either has some very, very, very niche skills or there is an information asymmetry issue and your company is overpaying!

 

[MichaelW]

Lets also keep it in perspective.....the people on 200K pa are in job which could dissapate quickly.

I have a reasonable 6 figure income..and now do not concentrate on getting payrises.

Last year no pay rises were given due to the GFC.....yet I made more out of rental and CG that year. Acutually in reflection I made almost 3 times my salary.

Sash,

Agree completely. I am in exactly the same boat. I also have a nice 6 figure income, very nice to be precise, and last year got no increase due to the GFC and no bonus either. But my income is sufficient that my wife doesn't have to work and we're just kicking off that $1.2M development in Mona Vale and the banks loved my servicability.

I'm not pushing hard on the work front any more, just doing a very good job at level and arguing for inflation based increases annually and working hard to develop my property portfolio to become the "main game".

My wife is likely to go back to work next year or the year after too. Not because she has to, but because she wants to practice law having just finished that degree before she had Aden. An extra $60K odd a year with all the tax scale benefits of being a secondary earner will be nice. She wants to live off her income and invest mine. Nice!!

Cheers,
Michael

 

[asdf]

Just imagine if all these low income earners decided to study to become IT gurus or bankers - we'd all be ****ed frankly. We are lucky that some people chose their jobs not for the financial rewards but because they want to make a difference to society and help people.

Never a truer word spoken! Imagine all the smart investment bankers diverting their intelligence to something more worthwhile to society. Might actually be a decent world we live in.

 

[RumpledElf]

But it was well over $100 just for our 4th year apprentice to cut your hair (trained maily by Jo Bailey), let alone the boss.

I pay $20 here for the same cut I used to get in North Adelaide (very high socioeconomic) for $70 - and that's just a cut, nothing fancy. Methinks the rents on shops here is just a wee bit lower

I get the baby's hair cut for about $2 every couple of weeks but I think it is because she is so cute and the pair of us hold her down, not the paid staff. Note to anyone planning to breed - check your partner's speed of hair growth. If it is ridiculously high, you will have children who need VERY regular trims or they end up looking like English sheepdogs

 

[jaycee]

Never a truer word spoken! Imagine all the smart investment bankers diverting their intelligence to something more worthwhile to society. Might actually be a decent world we live in.

One could say that about many proffessions and depending on what they were focussing on at the time (never the whole picture)

The world developed into using complex finance, how would this all be dismantled leaving everything else as it is ?

 

[our obsession]

Relfy!! You crack me up no end, we need YOU on radio and tv, you are funnier and more entertaining then the lot of them drib-drabs.

Somersoft could have it's own program, digital radio, Relfy Show. Special guests--->

Can we do this?

I bet you would even play good music.

 

[Lil Skater]

I get the baby's hair cut for about $2 every couple of weeks but I think it is because she is so cute and the pair of us hold her down, not the paid staff. Note to anyone planning to breed - check your partner's speed of hair growth. If it is ridiculously high, you will have children who need VERY regular trims or they end up looking like English sheepdogs

These days i cut my own hair, don't like hairdressers ever since when i was working there, i started with mid back length hair, by the time i left it was at mid neck! I had no say, they just said, hey, we're giving you a haircut sit down. They chopped it all off, then said it's okay we'll make it into a posh bob when your fringe grows.

LOL, love it.

Relfy!! You crack me up no end, we need YOU on radio and tv, you are funnier and more entertaining then the lot of them drib-drabs.

Somersoft could have it's own program, digital radio, Relfy Show. Special guests--->

Can we do this?

I bet you would even play good music.

Maybe we can ask the mods

 

[our obsession]

LSkater, how do you cut the tricky bits? Hair you can't see or reach?

 

[quoll]

Why not refer to some hard numbers, such as the spreadsheet presented here:

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]/DetailsPage/6523.0.55.0012005-06?OpenDocument

Quick summary of the income data from 2005/06 tax year. 98.92% of population where earning less than $2k per week, 87.27% where earning less than $1k per week.

WEEKLY NUMBER % OF % OF % OF
INCOME OF EARNERS EARNERS EARNERS
RANGE PEOPLE BELOW AT OR
2005/06 000s ABOVE

No income 70.0 0.35% 0.35% 100.00%
$1-49 101.8 0.51% 0.86% 99.65%
$50-99 85.7 0.43% 1.29% 99.14%
$100-149 101.9 0.51% 1.80% 98.71%
$150-199 257.2 1.29% 3.09% 98.20%
$200-249 694.2 3.48% 6.58% 96.91%
$250-299 1,474.2 7.40% 13.97% 93.42%
$300-349 1,477.3 7.41% 21.39% 86.03%
$350-399 1,305.8 6.55% 27.94% 78.61%
$400-449 1,363.7 6.84% 34.78% 72.06%
$450-499 1,305.2 6.55% 41.33% 65.22%
$500-549 1,354.3 6.80% 48.12% 58.67%
$550-599 1,313.2 6.59% 54.71% 51.88%
$600-649 1,117.5 5.61% 60.32% 45.29%
$650-699 1,103.3 5.54% 65.85% 39.68%
$700-749 986.0 4.95% 70.80% 34.15%
$750-799 899.1 4.51% 75.31% 29.20%
$800-849 699.4 3.51% 78.82% 24.69%
$850-899 663.8 3.33% 82.15% 21.18%
$900-949 568.3 2.85% 85.00% 17.85%
$950-999 451.3 2.26% 87.27% 15.00%
$1,000-1,049 393.2 1.97% 89.24% 12.73%
$1,050-1,099 317.3 1.59% 90.83% 10.76%
$1,100-1,199 482.5 2.42% 93.25% 9.17%
$1,200-1,299 320.4 1.61% 94.86% 6.75%
$1,300-1,499 393.9 1.98% 96.84% 5.14%
$1,500-1,699 203.6 1.02% 97.86% 3.16%
$1,700-1,999 211.4 1.06% 98.92% 2.14%
$2,000 or more 215.2 1.08% 100.00% 1.08%
All persons 19,930.7



Cheers
Graeme

 

[Lil Skater]

LSkater, how do you cut the tricky bits? Hair you can't see or reach?

Hahaha, i'm just tricky like that

No it's really easy, if you can reach your toes..stand infront of a mirror that reaches the floor, so BI with mirrors works, legs apart fli[ your head upside down make sure it's combed down evenly cut straight across and make sure that you make it even. Easy!

When you flip your head back over it should be perfectly layered and in a V

I cut and dye Mum's hair too, and my cousins and a few friends..always been good with hair

I'm very stubborn, and for many things i'd rather stuff it up myself, but i haven't as yet. Except when i dyed my hair blonde (always wanted to be blonde, but when i finally did i looked stupid)

 

[our obsession]

L. Skater do u have/finish ur hair ticket?

If u struggle for work to find in Melb I know the sweetest hairdresser alive and he is always looking for staff, has a few businesses, but he is regional..(Vic) Incidently he is a property investor..

 

[Lil Skater]

L. Skater do u have/finish ur hair ticket?

If u struggle for work to find in Melb I know the sweetest hairdresser alive and he is always looking for staff, has a few businesses, but he is regional..(Vic) Incidently he is a property investor..

How funny!

Only reason why i left hair dressing was because of my boss, plus i was travelling 2 hours there and back, when trains were co operating.

I don't have any qualifications because i left the apprenticeship after 4 months or so.

 

[our obsession]

Actually I will PM you about him, no harm in having some far out back up plan contingency part 5 sub (iv). Besides there might be a country kid in you, itching to live by a river or two. Skater and DadSkater could come visit and go fishing.

 

[Lil Skater]

Actually I will PM you about him, no harm in having some far out back up plan contingency part 5 sub (iv). Besides there might be a country kid in you, itching to live by a river or two. Skater and DadSkater could come visit and go fishing.

lol!

Sounds good, thanks

Haha, we attempted to go fishing once (dad and i) only caught a baby, so we put it back..not so good at fishing haha