How to get the right advice part 3 The good and bad about buying in the United State

According to some reports as much as $650 million may have been spent in the United States over the last 18 months in property. Now the real question should be how much of that $650 Million has been spent well. In my view many people have brought into the United States because of cheap prices. I hear every day of people buying properties for $30,000 to $50,000. The problem is that many of these properties are in slum areas. If you saw some of these locations you would not want to get out of your car let alone buy a property there.

People often buy because of the returns. It not uncommon to have returns of 13-15% however in many cases the figures quoted are gross not net returns. By the time you take away property management, Property Taxes and maintenance the returns can fall well below 10%. So at the end of the day you are paying cash which may be costing you 6.5% or more and getting a return as low as 8% with little chance of solid capital growth. To me this is not a great investment.

If you are going to buy single houses you need to buy a lot of them. To simply buy one is not economical because you have to look at the cost of setting up the LLC in the state you are buying in. Plus you also have to look at lodging a yearly tax return with the IRS and also a state return. Both of these processes are not cheap and if you only have one property then watch your return plummet.

There would appear to many suppliers in the United States, some good some bad; the question is how you tell the difference.

Make sure that the people you are dealing are actually operating in the city you are purchasing in. Sounds like a silly question, however in many cases wholesalers are buying properties they have never even been to. So the question arises how you can tell the quality of the property or area in which you are buying, the answer is you cannot. Then you have to find someone to manage it good luck with that one.

You then have people who buy properties and renovate them. These types of properties are better however what is the real value of the properties is the real question. You need to see examples of sales in the immediate area. In some cases the market located just 3 blocks away can be very different. Before you buy spend the money to go and meet the supplier and get them to prove to you that what they are recommending is worthwhile. Also see how big is their team? If it is a one man operation what happens if they go out of business. Meet the property manager and question them carefully about their experience and what kind of follow up support can you expect? Remember you can be in the best market anywhere if you are dealing with an idiot, crook or a salesman you still have a problem.


Suppliers that are locally based are also interesting. It is important to consider the following questions

Do these suppliers have ownership in the US Business or are they just middlemen?
Have they met the suppliers they are dealing with?
Have they been to the city in which they are recommending that you buying?

Now you may be asking yourself how can someone who has never been to the US not met the supplier offer you good advice. The answer is they cannot. Be very weary of people asking for fees when their real knowledge may be limited.

My problem with single homes is that you cannot leverage, because you are paying cash for properties. Personally I like commercial properties and that can include apartment complexes because we can get at least 60% from a commercial bank. To me these are great purchases and good solid investments because you receive a great net return together with strong potential capital growth and in most cases the occupancy rate is over 95%.
America is a great place to make money, however you can lose money very easily if you are dealing with the wrong person. Do your due diligence very carefully, not only on the market that you are going to deal in but look carefully at the experience of the supplier you are going to deal with and match that with your investment needs.

Investing in the United States can be a great and successful experience by simply taking the trouble to do your due diligence carefully.
 
nigel,

mate, I've read many your threads and, man, I've got to hand it to ya.

Your creds are zilch and you cop a shellacking like I've never seen. But you keep on keeping on. A real trooper.

I bent over double in spasms reading replies to your posts and their links.

You must have skin as thick as buffalo hide, so I dont mind saying that I didnt even bother reading that garbled nonsense of a post that you planted above.

I'm not saying that I am any better a salesman

The one thing I am curious about is, do you make a good living out of your business?

Are there people taken in?

If so, man, I'm gonna give it a go.
 
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Datto

I have posted information on what people should watch out for if they are looking at investing in the United States and you post this insulting crap. I do not really care what your opinion is
 
Sorry. But you have to use smaller paragraphs and better English.

Otherwise its too hard to read your posts.

Also you slag off this forum on other forums. Of course that's going to be funny. A good salesman wouldn't be caught out like that.
 
Look Nigel, forget what I posted.

But with regards to investing in the US, it is very risky.

I personally was looking at houses on the net in the Los Angeles area (about 2 years ago). I looked at a 1500 sq ft house on a good size block. I cant remember the count (maybe Orange County).

It was real cheap at about $30K. I looked at the property on google earth and the area seemed really desolate. But from memory it seemed only about 60 miles south east of LA.

I think in a few years time when the US economy starts firing on all cylinders, a lot of people may regret not investing in the US, but at the moment seems risky ie crome area, collecting rent, taxes etc
 
risks

The problem is that most people are buying slums in bad locations, where not only will they not get great returns but in many cases no capital growth either.

There are great risks investing in the United States. It all comes down to who you are dealing with on the ground.

If you are going to invest at least go there and have a look for yourself. If you do not do your due diligence you might end up losing your money.
 
That's true.

Like Australia, you can get great yields on properties in regional locations/rural areas, one trick pony towns/cities etc. But like Australia, the prime site properties which boom quickest in a recovery due to their development potential/immigration etc etc are still expensive on an absolute dollar basis and yield is substantially lower etc.

I was looking at Spruce Hill in Philadelphia for example and you can enter the market very cheaply at say $400k (sure it's not the $30k houses in Buffalo but that's stuff I'm not interested in), it's 5 mins walk to UPenn and yields are reasonable. But Philadelphia is a city experiencing "white flight" (black people proportion has shot up from a mild 25% or so in the early 2000s to over 40% now), and the city's biggest employer is UPenn. Can you imagine Sydney's biggest employer is USyd? Where's the future for a city like that?

In contrast, I looked at prime places in Manhattan like East Village, Lower East Side etc close to NYU, and 2-bedders are still commanding US$900k+. While I still find that affordable for most Wall St bankers, it's not the US$30k properties we're talking about in Atlanta, but I suspect in a boom the upshot will be fastest in lower Manhattan than it will be in Atlanta.
 
I like Culver City Ca.

This place has recovered well from the GFC and you can get your foot in the door for under $200K (one bedder). Over $1K rent pm.

Some good raps on this area.

Would need to do further research though.
 
Commercial Property

I like commercial property. Currently I like property in Orlando. Generally when I am looking at commercial I look at apartment complexes. Currently can get 60% funding and with a 95% occupancy rate they are quite safe. Also if you look at similar complexes in Texas you are only getting about an 8% cap however in Florida its 14-17% net cash on cash.

The reason for this is that in Texas you had to have a 20% deposit even during the boom and as such we did not see a lot of downward movement in the market.

In Florida it was much more speculative and we saw properties that were selling at $300,000 now selling at $75,000. I think the issue is that these properties were only worth $150,000, so we had an over reaction when the market came back so I believe there is room for growth as parts of the US Economy improves.

Again your due diligence is important here
 
That's true.

Like Australia, you can get great yields on properties in regional locations/rural areas, one trick pony towns/cities etc. But like Australia, the prime site properties which boom quickest in a recovery due to their development potential/immigration etc etc are still expensive on an absolute dollar basis and yield is substantially lower etc.

I was looking at Spruce Hill in Philadelphia for example and you can enter the market very cheaply at say $400k (sure it's not the $30k houses in Buffalo but that's stuff I'm not interested in), it's 5 mins walk to UPenn and yields are reasonable. But Philadelphia is a city experiencing "white flight" (black people proportion has shot up from a mild 25% or so in the early 2000s to over 40% now), and the city's biggest employer is UPenn. Can you imagine Sydney's biggest employer is USyd? Where's the future for a city like that?

In contrast, I looked at prime places in Manhattan like East Village, Lower East Side etc close to NYU, and 2-bedders are still commanding US$900k+. While I still find that affordable for most Wall St bankers, it's not the US$30k properties we're talking about in Atlanta, but I suspect in a boom the upshot will be fastest in lower Manhattan than it will be in Atlanta.

Hi Delta
Wrong, my properties in Atlanta have risen by as much as 40-50% all in 18 months and I do not buy in the hood. I do agree with Nigel that you need to buy multiple properties to make it work, I stopped at 8 cos I could not achieve 20% gross which I believe you need to make it work as there is slippage.

Why are prices rising? Its simple, supply and demand, big business/super funds have jumped in and buying everything, obviously they recognise a great opportunity and they have the resources, in fact I believe prices are still rising. Areas like Atlanta, Arizona and Florida have had incredible growth, these areas fell back as much as 70% (could you imagine if this happened in Oz :(), I purchased my properties at around $20 per sq ft, it costs approx $90 per sq ft to build in Atlanta. Once building starts to take off in US investors who purchases at a low base will be sitting pretty I believe.

Buying a property in Manhattan as a foreign investor makes no sense whatsoever as it obviously would not be cashflow positive and you can not leverage as a foreigner, you simply would be better off playing your own backyard.

Cheers, MTR
 
Price Rises

Hi MTR I agree however its important to note that in Florida properties selling in the boom for $300,000 are now available for $75,000 the problem is that they were only ever worth $150,000 for you have had a massive over pricing of properties but it has swung back the other way to much.

Its important to note that each state controls there finance regulations, for example in Texas in most cases you still need a 20"% deposit while in Florida you did not. The result was that Texas held firm with very little in the way of price drops and Florida lost more than 50% of value since 2006
 
Hi Delta
Wrong, my properties in Atlanta have risen by as much as 40-50% all in 18 months and I do not buy in the hood. I do agree with Nigel that you need to buy multiple properties to make it work, I stopped at 8 cos I could not achieve 20% gross which I believe you need to make it work as there is slippage.

Why are prices rising? Its simple, supply and demand, big business/super funds have jumped in and buying everything, obviously they recognise a great opportunity and they have the resources, in fact I believe prices are still rising. Areas like Atlanta, Arizona and Florida have had incredible growth, these areas fell back as much as 70% (could you imagine if this happened in Oz :(), I purchased my properties at around $20 per sq ft, it costs approx $90 per sq ft to build in Atlanta. Once building starts to take off in US investors who purchases at a low base will be sitting pretty I believe.

Buying a property in Manhattan as a foreign investor makes no sense whatsoever as it obviously would not be cashflow positive and you can not leverage as a foreigner, you simply would be better off playing your own backyard.

Cheers, MTR

That's true. I know that Atlanta and Florida has ran quite hard, but the same has not happened in other areas. Drapac just bought a 1000-house land there so he'd be one of the funds/PEs you're talking about.

I'm not too sure what will happen on a full economic recovery or which will make more money (ie between NYC and say Atlanta), but obviously it'll be a good outcome for both cities regardless.
 
That's true. I know that Atlanta and Florida has ran quite hard, but the same has not happened in other areas. Drapac just bought a 1000-house land there so he'd be one of the funds/PEs you're talking about.

I'm not too sure what will happen on a full economic recovery or which will make more money (ie between NYC and say Atlanta), but obviously it'll be a good outcome for both cities regardless.

Hi Delta
Who knows what will happen in the future?
I guess that is why I am very much focused on cashflow. I don't need to bring the money to OZ and with the OZ $ so strong its not a good idea anyway.

Basically just use the cashflow to pay down debt, its a win/win.

Hi Nigel
I never look at the US housing figures at 2007 as I believe that is when US property peaked. I look at figures around 2003 to keep it real.

Cheers MTR
 
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