how to work out where to buy...

ok so i have been on this forum for about 8 months now, learning as much as i can. the main things i havent learnt are what areas do i look to buy...? and bit unsure on due dilligence as never had to do that before
so how do you guys/ girls know where to buy or choose where you want to buy?
 
First of all work out a goal, such as 'retire in 10 years on 100K passive income', then think about what you need in your possession in 10 years time to achieve this goal. Formulate a strategy. Find out what gap you need to bridge in your financial situation in the 10 years. Decide on whether you want/need to be an passive or active investor to achieve that goal. If you are going to actively manufacture growth, decide on your niche, be it reno or developing etc. Think about how you would continue to finance your journey. Once all that is thought through, you are 90% there to finding the area and the type of property you need to be investing in.

Too many areas/houses to look at otherwise.
 
i guess i sort of avoided doing this as iv never really been one to do that sort of stuff
iv never budgeted because iv never needed to im good with my money, iv never had to back track to work something out guess it does look like ill have to tho
the conflicting this is what i want and what i need to do are the opposite lol

thanks will have to work it out backwards then like you say if your looking for something in particular then you will know where to look

all makes sense
 
Also you need to work out what YOU can afford. What's your borrowing capacity? Can you afford any out of pocket? if so, how much?

Once you have a price range you can start working how you can get to your goals, as Evan suggested. Then work out whether you are better with a property you can renovate or a unit etc.

I found it hard to get started. I kept looking at different areas and couldn't make a decision. But once I worked it out and started buying I couldn't stop.:D

Keep asking questions to get you closer to your goal.
 
i dont mind being hands on and with a low wage i need to be active but if im looking interstate id rather something that "should" have less problems and be more passive
 
Evan's advice sounds pretty sound.

I would add a bearish precaution, that no matter what buying property leverages you up into an asset which is not very liquid and that would be my current concern.

"You should always buy quality assets that are cheap."

Ask yourself if its property, is this a quality piece of property, why? and secondly is it cheap? why?

I am a big fan of buying property where you know. I have only made a couple of property purchases in my life and have always bought once I know an area - really well(ideally living there for sometime).

I know people buy property all over the country, heck all over the world and make a fortune out of it. They know more than I do!!(I am sure there are horror stories as well!)

What I do know is the last 10-12 years of easy credit and the boom it provided has made many people into property experts that aint. You literally could not lose.

My advice would be to store everything you know about property, know what you can afford to buy and just keep an eye out.

In the meantime also get knowledge about other asset classes. Shares(ex mining) are definetly cheap. Quality? thats the harder part.

fwiw, I live in Sydney currently. I still think Sydney is overpriced in most suburbs.(and I do realise the city trades on a premium because of its location and size). I think Brisbane has cheap pockets(have lived there for 5+ years). And I can think of a few other regional areas that are ok value.

But no property market that I know as a whole is screaming at me BUY.
 
Hi BMan,

I agree with the others. Having a plan is important for the long term.
You can do it yourself but I'd recommend talking to a financial planner that is:

1. Fee for service
2. Receives no commissions (other than insurance)
3. Has knowledge about property as an asset class
4. Is unbiased in their asset class recommendations

Once you've talked with a planner then talk to a good accountant.

Then talk to lenders to establish what they'll lend to you.
*Be aware that banks will often lend you more than you need - be careful

THEN you can start your search.

With your search you should create a selection criteria based upon reaching your goals. That 'model' should be able to be replicated so you can keep doing it over and over. Don't worry too much about this because your first purchase will teach you so much that you'll probably get it right in round 2 rather than round 1.

Here's my model:
Conservative approach based on capital growth.

Apartment
Strata Titled
2-12km radius of CBD
>50sqm
$450-$650K
Under suburbs median value
blue chip areas
residential zone 1
boutique <18 units
Quiet street
No Gyms
No Lifts
No Pools
Pro active Strata Group (owners corp)
1+ Car park
Out door space (courtyard / balcony)
Established Property
Quality/Character Building: 1930's / 50's / 60's / 70's etc

Hope that helps
 
@Jake

the OP mentioned he is on a low wage so the list above might not be that suitable for him due to:
1) high budget for the IP
2) being almost certainly negatively geared

For a model based on CG everything you have wrote makes sense but for the OP I think he needs to focus on sub $300k properties with > 7% yield...
 
In my opinion, when to buy is much more important then where to buy. It will have a much bigger determination of your success.

I put the purchasing priorities in this order:

1 When to buy

2 Where to buy

3 What to buy
 
Ahh okay thanks for that Tess - didn't see budget anywhere in this post.

Are you sure buying a property based on yield is a good idea as a first investment?

I mean yeah it'll be easier to hold, but with a low income it'll be harder to save for a higher quality property so why not put the extra dollars into negative gearing and let the equity growth do the hard work for you?

I have a client at the moment with a budget of $350K and found this in my research.
Link:http://www.realestate.com.au/property-townhouse-vic-kensington-110837851

It's a Torrens titled town house with a land component close to Melbourne's city. Growth may be limited for the next 3 years however it's not a bad property fundamentally.

The vendor lives in Sydney and even though it's listed at 320-350K there is value at $300k. It was previously rented for $310pw but due to a coat of paint and new carpets it'd fetch at least $320pw now....

Perhaps that's a suggestion that'd deliver growth (due to land) and yield?
 
Strata Titled
2-12km radius of CBD
>50sqm
$450-$650K
Under suburbs median value
blue chip areas
residential zone 1
boutique <18 units
Quiet street
No Gyms
No Lifts
No Pools
Pro active Strata Group (owners corp)
1+ Car park
Out door space (courtyard / balcony)
Established Property
Quality/Character Building: 1930's / 50's / 60's / 70's etc

Hope that helps

i do agree with most of the list but
boutique <18 units, no lifts or pools or gym ? and 1930s, 50s, 60s, 70s etc?

In the event your circumstances change - you probably need a newer property to attract buyers and i am pretty sure not many overseas buyers which is the main target market for apartments in inner city melbourne would be looking for a 1930s, 50s, 60s, 70s. many would shy away due to asbestos reasons.
 
Completely appreciate your point of view Melbournian and thanks for agreeing with most of it.

Just to elaborate and clarify the information you've raised:

Boutique: Lenders like blocks of units if they’re less than 18.

The reasons:
A higher amount of loans against a building raises the risk of people defaulting and values depreciating.
Lenders look at ratios of owners vs. investors and see less risk if home ownership is high.
Established blocks have higher percentages of home owners than new developments.
Lenders also cap their investment level per building so they don’t expose their portfolios to too much risk. This means that in the future purchasers can experience lending difficulties with high rises.

Valuers like blocks of units if they’re less than 18.
The reasons:
They’re more unique, therefore have higher demand.
Sales within the same block are less liquid so values are less volatile so a valuer can be less conservative

No Lifts, Gyms, or Pools
We manage a rent roll of 250 properties and have less than 1% vacancy rate throughout our portfolio. We've found that these facilities do NOT make a difference to vacancy rate. They will mean that you accrue more rent per week however they are usually more expensive to maintain so the rental income is somewhat negated by owner's corp costs.

Newer Buildings:
The overseas market (mainly China) is aggressively targeted by developers and marketeers and they are steered towards inner city (CBD) apartments. In many CBD’s there are over saturations of new developments and less unique property. This means that those properties will always suffer from a buyer's market. The reason being is that in high density areas where apartments are all alike the only differentiation is price (basic supply v. demand) - therefore purchasers will usually just choose the cheaper option, meaning you'll never get a outperforming result.

Secondly New buildings are often approved more frequently on main roads rather than quiet streets. Home owners usually prefer quieter streets when looking to settle down and start a family hence demand for new buildings is actually lower than established property.

Established Property
I could go on for years about the benefits of established property but I'll keep this one brief.

The reasons:
Character. - 1930's Art Deco apartments sell for a premium and are always in demand. They have arguably inferior floor plans but make up for it in character.
Size - 1940's-60's are BIG... Bigger than most modern projects. Valuers heavily weight their CMA's based on size. Hence these decades continue to perform
1980's - inferior design, floor plans and cheap construction (chipboard floors etc)
1990's - much like the 00's property. You usually get less for you $ and have properties that are old enough to look dated but too young to have character (compare Edwardian houses to 1990's houses for e.g.)

Asbestos
I've never encountered a unit that still has asbestos. Houses yes, it's common (especially sheds/garages). The body corporate should have removed any asbestos (e.g. 1930's garages) by now, if they haven't then they're not pro-active enough so you wouldn't buy.
 
thanks for your constructive input jake.

Boutique: Lenders like blocks of units if they’re less than 18.

The reasons:
A higher amount of loans against a building raises the risk of people defaulting and values depreciating.
Lenders look at ratios of owners vs. investors and see less risk if home ownership is high.
Established blocks have higher percentages of home owners than new developments.
Lenders also cap their investment level per building so they don’t expose their portfolios to too much risk. This means that in the future purchasers can experience lending difficulties with high rises.

i agree - new blocks currently being built have higher rates of defaulting. i to would stay clear but still consider older apartments build in the late 90s and early 2000s.


Valuers like blocks of units if they’re less than 18.
The reasons:
They’re more unique, therefore have higher demand.
Sales within the same block are less liquid so values are less volatile so a valuer can be less conservative

i would say yes but also no - as they're restrictive. SOme blocks i know and have previously owned have prices primed based on the location and people who live in there

No Lifts, Gyms, or Pools
We manage a rent roll of 250 properties and have less than 1% vacancy rate throughout our portfolio. We've found that these facilities do NOT make a difference to vacancy rate. They will mean that you accrue more rent per week however they are usually more expensive to maintain so the rental income is somewhat negated by owner's corp costs.


well - you gotto incorporate the views as well. all these blocks probably don't have a lift and will make it difficult for older people who wish to buy in the block. Not everyone likes to run up a flight of stairs esp when it comes to grocery shopping etc. by having these facilities - it makes a difference to type of tenant you are looking for. by having no lifts, gyms or pools you basically just narrowed down to very few apartment blocks around inner CBD.i have an apartment rented at 1K a week which as a owners corp of 3K a year bought at mid 400K 1.5 years ago which gives a return of over 10%. So it is really subjective though - if i had singled out only boutique blocks - i wouldn't have been able to secure a corporate client.



Newer Buildings:
The overseas market (mainly China) is aggressively targeted by developers and marketeers and they are steered towards inner city (CBD) apartments. In many CBD’s there are over saturations of new developments and less unique property. This means that those properties will always suffer from a buyer's market. The reason being is that in high density areas where apartments are all alike the only differentiation is price (basic supply v. demand) - therefore purchasers will usually just choose the cheaper option, meaning you'll never get a outperforming result.

Well i think you have to factor in location - there are many apartment blocks built in the 2000s that have good locations and everyone likes having good foyer as well as some facilities. no one wants to just walk in the cold passageway or the stairs.


Secondly New buildings are often approved more frequently on main roads rather than quiet streets. Home owners usually prefer quieter streets when looking to settle down and start a family hence demand for new buildings is actually lower than established property.

if you on the 10th floor and above - there is basically no noise from the streets. Also there is double and tripe glazing being used in the newer buildings nowadays although i have never bought anything built after 2004. you have to realize majority of the apartment blocks were also built in the early 2000s and some of the locations are even better than the ones in built in previous years


Established Property
I could go on for years about the benefits of established property but I'll keep this one brief.

The reasons:
Character. - 1930's Art Deco apartments sell for a premium and are always in demand. They have arguably inferior floor plans but make up for it in character.
Size - 1940's-60's are BIG... Bigger than most modern projects. Valuers heavily weight their CMA's based on size. Hence these decades continue to perform
1980's - inferior design, floor plans and cheap construction (chipboard floors etc)
1990's - much like the 00's property. You usually get less for you $ and have properties that are old enough to look dated but too young to have character (compare Edwardian houses to 1990's houses for e.g.)

personal taste - many of these art deco apartments - i had one myself off queens road was the only apartment which i made the least amount of dollars when coming to selling off. Many buyers at that time found it dark and heating was an issue. i agree edwardian and victorian houses ones in albert park, middle park and south melbourne are ones to keep and are a gem in its own right but of apartments - i personaly think it is hard to sell these unless it was sold at a dirt cheap price.


Asbestos
I've never encountered a unit that still has asbestos. Houses yes, it's common (especially sheds/garages). The body corporate should have removed any asbestos (e.g. 1930's garages) by now, if they haven't then they're not pro-active enough so you wouldn't buy.


i think you would have to search harder. Asbetos was only fully banned in early 2000s and they were everywhere before. had an apartment once in south yarra - a 1970s one had fibre cement sheets or asbestos cement sheets for the walls of the bathroom when i decided to change the wall and floor tiles As you know, owners corp only manages the common areas and well - yeah it cost me a bundle - i personally would steer away from these old apartments. and the noise factors are so bad - no double glazing as well as difficult in putting in heating and cooling solutions.

 
Are you sure buying a property based on yield is a good idea as a first investment?

I mean yeah it'll be easier to hold, but with a low income it'll be harder to save for a higher quality property so why not put the extra dollars into negative gearing and let the equity growth do the hard work for you?

Sorry you are right, one has to look at the overall return ie. rental yield AND capital growth, and remember that capital growth is on a higher dollar amount so it's what really makes money. But there is no point in having a investment with terrific CG if you can't meet the negative shortfall or repay the loan... I guess you just have to work out what you're comfortable with. It's a bit of a balancing act between maintaining serviceability and growth prospects, I have found.
 
thanks to all the posts more and more information to process now my heads feeling bloated with it all!!!

i guess you could go for a reasonably NG one first off and then hope it produces good gains while you look for positive or close to and try and balance your portfolio out that way so you not equity rich and cash poor
 
i guess you could go for a reasonably NG one first off and then hope it produces good gains while you look for positive or close to and try and balance your portfolio out that way so you not equity rich and cash poor

As Propertunity would say... Hope is not a strategy!

What if interest rates go up to 9% pa and your NG investment property becomes even more negatively geared? With a large negative cashflow it will be even harder to buy another IP after that. That is why I tend to favour buying a CF+ one (or two, or there) balanced out by a CF- one... rinse and repeat...

Good luck with it all!
 
Ahh okay thanks for that Tess - didn't see budget anywhere in this post.

Are you sure buying a property based on yield is a good idea as a first investment?

I mean yeah it'll be easier to hold, but with a low income it'll be harder to save for a higher quality property so why not put the extra dollars into negative gearing and let the equity growth do the hard work for you?


It's a Torrens titled town house with a land component close to Melbourne's city. Growth may be limited for the next 3 years however it's not a bad property fundamentally.

are you seriously suggesting that buying a negatively geared property that may have "limited growth" over the next 3 years (if it doesnt in fact go backwards) is a good idea for someone on a low income?

it would be hard enough getting a deposit together, once they have done that to then spend it on a negative geared property during a lull in the market would be a struggle at best and could potentially set them back years.

people on low incomes need to be very careful with that strategy imo
 
i guess you could go for a reasonably NG one first off and then hope it produces good gains while you look for positive or close to and try and balance your portfolio out that way so you not equity rich and cash poor

The trouble with this strategy is that the people saying it usually have no idea how hard to is to find positive cash-flow property. It involves a lot of work because properties usually have to be *made* positive cash flow through renovation or development.

Buying -cf on the other hand is really easy and a lot of fun!
 
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