Huge article from Steve Keen on why prices are going to crash

need or want? they can do what they like, they control the market.

How so? Its not like we have a choice of only one or two banks here. During times of growth there is competition between banks to attract customers and borrowers. Now, it seems as if all the banks are slowly shutting shop.

The only reason they would increase rates ahead of the RBA is to improve their liquidity, and the changes to the LVR's would be to reduce the amount of debt they provide for property. They are trying to limit exposure AND risk.

Why are they battening down the hatches in the middle of a property boom?
 
How so? Its not like we have a choice of only one or two banks here.

4 stooge banks that act in unison and are held harmless and are propped up by the government. what chance do you stand?

Why are they battening down the hatches in the middle of a property boom?

just pumping up the bottom line because they can (all competition blown away or bought out).

where's this property boom? is it melbourne? anywhere else?
 
i love the "potential" 6 unit site deals - "potential" when you divide lot area by minimum lot size, or "potential" after common property, TPS, passing bays and a visitor bay....?
 
4 stooge banks that act in unison and are held harmless and are propped up by the government. what chance do you stand?



just pumping up the bottom line because they can (all competition blown away or bought out).

where's this property boom? is it melbourne? anywhere else?

It's in Melbourne...........certainly hot here. In fact blitzing the rest of the field:


Melbourne Current median $540,400 Quarterly Increase +$60,400 Yearly Increase +$130,400 from the Real Estate Institute of Australia.

I know, I know, lies, damn lies and statistics. Still somthing to mull over and dissect and refute, however whilst there are always markets within markets, this one is now gone silly. Yields are not acceptable to me at present. I have posted elsewhere that I see no value here for resi (or retail comm) at present.

I still have most of my holdings in Melbourne hence not complaining :D however as Ausprop indicates the quadroploly ostensibly are dictating the prices.....as they largely always have.

With CBA now dropping investor LVR's, expect the other triplets to follow suit. Interest rates will rise and one thing is for sure low LVR's and higher cost of funds means pressure.......tenants will suffer.

Good for landlords ;)
 
with melbourne gone nuts have the beachside areas picke dup at all? not sure of that part of the world but Portsea is a beachside holiday destination?
 
I'd retort there'd be more capital available if banks and their creditors were more confident risk adjusted reward was attractive.

Hi WW

Dunno about that. Australian banks sourced more capital on foreign markets last year than any other country. Got that little tidbit from the head of retail banking at one of the majors over (free?) lunch. No idea how I got invited to that gig!

Anyway, his opinion is that situation is unsustainable and credit will be rationed going forward and LVRs, SVRs and IR margins will be the mechanism by which they achieve this. You only have to look at deposit rates to work out the Banks are doing whatever they can to get capital to lend - they just can't get enough, hence the rationing.

Of course, that just increases the risk of price drops anyway so really both arguments end with the same result...
 
Hi WW

Dunno about that. Australian banks sourced more capital on foreign markets last year than any other country. Got that little tidbit from the head of retail banking at one of the majors over (free?) lunch. No idea how I got invited to that gig!

Anyway, his opinion is that situation is unsustainable and credit will be rationed going forward and LVRs, SVRs and IR margins will be the mechanism by which they achieve this. You only have to look at deposit rates to work out the Banks are doing whatever they can to get capital to lend - they just can't get enough, hence the rationing.

Of course, that just increases the risk of price drops anyway so really both arguments end with the same result...

you always get the good invites!!!! giz a call next time - i need to get in on this shiznit!!!
 
A little bit here....a little bit there

WOW that's huge. underscores holding property in each state.

Yep. Markets within markets.

Just one example going back to MTR's purchases and accomplishments in Broadmeadows. That area still wouldn't be anywhere near the median I gave above, however it is likely that MTR (coming off a cheaper base) nonetheless had a similar increase in real terms.........the percentages therefore become dizzying. Knowing MTR and the value add with DA (planning permits) that MTR does, the return would be even juicier.

I picked Broady two and a half years ago as "too cheap" and transacted and purchased for my BIL and over the last two years that property has seen 60 % growth.............more fool me, as I didn't buy one (or three) for me :(

Back to your point Ausprop about holding in varying states, I initially ventured interstate (Gold Coast initially and then Sydney) to optimise the land tax imposts being exponetially delivered to me here in Vic.

Big benefit was exposure to different markets.....I am now a convert ;)

Next port of call for me is Sydney and I reckon parts of Brisbane may see upside. Anyone care to fill me on what's happening in Perth and what time it is over there. :confused:
 
In our local area nothing much is going on building wise.

The crane driver told hubby they didn't have one job last week (they did maintenance on the cranes) and we were their 2nd job on Wednesday.

So that is 7 days without work.

The concrete batcher and truck driver came up to our job last week which is a 12 minute drive one way from depo to see we would be ready to pour and if Council Inspector approved footings.

Council Inspector only had one inspection the day he inspected our footings.

Even though it will cost us to hold IP's with rising IR's and it is time consuming to build IP's there isn't much out there for people to buy so we will endeavour to hold as much as we can as our properties are reasonably new and would sell easy IMHO if we were selling.


PLAN - I will have a foot in each market...or a small % anyway.

Shares - SMSF
Property - PPOR
IP - renting to tenants via PM
Cash in IP offset account
Money - Frozen in Mortgage Fund
SMSF - Ohh the joy of writing minutes
Me - working - That doesn't sound right YEAH me working fulltime
Building - duplex hubby - Supervising the project.
Loans - we have a few


Aim is LOR (Living off rent)


Cheers
Sheryn
 
Next port of call for me is Sydney and I reckon parts of Brisbane may see upside. Anyone care to fill me on what's happening in Perth and what time it is over there. :confused:

my next port of call is either Semi Regional Vic or Syd, too.

Perth? dunno the time, none of us wear a watch - by the looks of the sun, i'd say about 8:30ish.
 
Yep. Markets within markets.

Just one example going back to MTR's purchases and accomplishments in Broadmeadows. That area still wouldn't be anywhere near the median I gave above, however it is likely that MTR (coming off a cheaper base) nonetheless had a similar increase in real terms.........the percentages therefore become dizzying. Knowing MTR and the value add with DA (planning permits) that MTR does, the return would be even juicier.

I picked Broady two and a half years ago as "too cheap" and transacted and purchased for my BIL and over the last two years that property has seen 60 % growth.............more fool me, as I didn't buy one (or three) for me :(

Back to your point Ausprop about holding in varying states, I initially ventured interstate (Gold Coast initially and then Sydney) to optimise the land tax imposts being exponetially delivered to me here in Vic.

Big benefit was exposure to different markets.....I am now a convert ;)

Next port of call for me is Sydney and I reckon parts of Brisbane may see upside. Anyone care to fill me on what's happening in Perth and what time it is over there. :confused:


Hi Player

I also wish I purchased more, that's life.

Sydney is also my focus, but I am staying away from the inner city stuff as some pockets have already taken off and I don't like my chances at the moment, fighting the herd.
Propertyunity has posted some info on the Sydney market which I found very interesting for those looking at this market.

Cheers, MTR
 
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Majority of refi/cash out deals crossing the desks of banks atm are coming in under borrower's "expectations". As a consequence and with no disrespect to MTR, I take all statements of the type " the property I bought last year is now worth x" with artery-hardening levels of salt.

Additional heaped teaspoon of salt for DA-dependent expectations.

Hi TF
I just sacked my broker, too negative and I need someone who can help me out today. Finance is without a doubt one of my hurdles at the moment. Still there's always a way, if it means going 60% LVR for a short period of time so be it.

Cheers, MTR
 
Is there too much hot air?

Different time in each city............is there too much hot air in the balloon?



Today the REIA released it's December 2009 Median House Price Data as follows:

Sydney: $598,000 (increase since Sept of +$29,000)
Melbourne: $540,400 (increase since Sept of +$60,400)
Brisbane: $451,000 (increase since Sept of +$21,000)
Perth: $460,000 (increase since Sept of +$20,000)
Adelaide: $385,000 (increase since Sept of +$15,000)
Canberra: $465,000 (increase since Sept of +$26,000)
Hobart: $347,500 (increase since Sept of +$22,000)
Darwin: $540,000 (increase since Sept of +$22,500)
Australia: $515,000 (increase since Sept of +$33,700)



Melbourne's balloon has helium in it :p :)
 
Yes its the rapid movement in the melbourne market that has me worried.
Fear and greed always act to create imperfect pricing.

First of my five aparments sold this week for $500k (bought for $320 in 2007) on an unconditional basis.

Waiting a month or so, and then the next one is going on for $575K
any takers?????:D

If that goes then i'm happy to just sit with the remaining 3 with very low gearing.
 
what will cause deflation in Australia Boz :)

I don't see it as big a risk as foreign inflation, and, like you, I actually don't think foreign inflation in developed economies will be an issue for some time.

Deflation in Australia would require a withdrawal of investment in Australia, i.e. like drop in demand for commodities, which would be contingent on a drop in foreign consumption.

I don't think a significant drop in net foreign consumption is as big a risk as inflation in the developed world.

I agree that deflation is not going to happen in Australia, the worse case scenario is the Iceland way, or even Argentina, no way we can have a Japan Style deflation in australia.
The worse case for australia is the case where the western world people have trust in their currency and they feel safe holding them (like in Japan). Deflation in western world will bring the AU$ down with commodity prices. Australian resource company will still be profitable with falling commodity price as the AU$ (and wage related costs) will fall with it. you can have deflation in western world even with a stable demand of resources. After all that is what happen to japan, they had a growing demand for their goods in the last 20 years.
about inflation in western world I am concern about UK and USA that I think they'll have problems. I think it is safe in EU, Japan or other nordic european countries (except Iceland)
 
Yes its the rapid movement in the melbourne market that has me worried.
Fear and greed always act to create imperfect pricing.

First of my five aparments sold this week for $500k (bought for $320 in 2007) on an unconditional basis.

Waiting a month or so, and then the next one is going on for $575K
any takers?????:D

If that goes then i'm happy to just sit with the remaining 3 with very low gearing.

Well done. Nothing like very low gearing.
 
This has turned into a longer post than I planned. Sorry.

House price rises and inflation

The long term studies of house prices, such as the Herengracht Index or Shiller's research suggest they're linked to general inflation, or slightly (less than half a percent) above it.

I know that most posters here don't agree with that, but bear with me for a second.

Melbourne's prices rose by 11.1% in the last quarter of 2009, according to the RBA figures that Player quoted. That's equivalent to five years' growth at the expected trend (inflation at 2.1%), and against a background of tightening credit.

Like Intrinsic_Value, that strikes me as smelling a bit funny.

Where are we in the cycle?

Dr. Jean-Paul Rodrigue came up with this diagram of the lifecycle of a bubble. (Stolen from Tiberius Leodis's blog.)

bubble-lifecycle.gif


The majority of posts would suggest that we're somewhere in the Awareness or maybe start of the Mania phases. But we could equally as well be in the Bull Trap of the Blow Off Phase, or even approaching the peak of a New Paradigm.

It depends if the dip in prices at the end of 2008 or 2009 was the turning point in a cycle, or just a blip. And apparently it's hard to pick out the start and end points of a cycle until after the fact.

Then again, all charts, property clocks and other methods of divining the future might be inaccurate, and we're deluding ourselves about our predictive abilities. :D

Credit

I keep on hearing stories on this forum about the increasing difficulty in borrowing money, and that the banks are tightening up their lending practices. That sounds eerily familiar to the UK in 2007 and 2008, shortly before the recession hit.

(A wider problem is that businesses here can't borrow short term to cover project costs, and that's what's really damaged the economy.)

Economist posted a few comments about how the carry trade was funding Australia, and others have expressed a concern that the country is highly dependent on foreign borrowing. This could actually be a real problem, as this comment from an article (on Japan) highlights.

Fitch, one of the leading rating agencies, places Japan top of the list in terms of financing flexibility. The agency uses factors such as net annual debt issuance (as a proportion of the total), size of the economy, the proportion of debt held by non-residents and the stock of financial assets to determine its rankings. By these measures Greece, Portugal and (more surprisingly) Australia are at the bottom of the table.

I suspect that the availability of credit is going to determine how the Australian economy fares over the next few years. Unfortunately I also believe that there's going to be a lot of paying down of debt and austerity for much of the world over the next decade, so it might not be pretty.
 
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