I HATE MONEY!!! All It Does Is Cause Strain & Stress!!!

Hi Watermelon Man,

This must be a really tough time for you. Hopefully the ideas put forth here will help. Here's a some of mine:

1) You need to have a very serious think about the business side of things. Unless this business is generating profit, you need to either change it to make it profitable, or shut it down. This can be a sad thing to do (my own father worked until 69), but may well be necessary in order to get back in control of things. An advantage you have is that the commercial vehicle you mentioned generally has fairly good resale, and so you should be able to recover much of the outstanding loan amount.

2) If you don't have the business running, is there any real reason for your folks to stay renting, or can they move back to the house they own (thus removing the rent expense)? Can they move back anyway, and potentially still run the business (if it is profitable)? Having pensioners with a potentially unprofitable business owning AND renting seems a bit ineffective to me.

3) Cut costs. And I mean really cut costs. Look at what they are spending on day to day and week to week and cut that spending. Small amounts going out over long periods add up to massive amounts of money.

4) Try to get rid of debt, rather than taking more on. At their age, adding up on debt should be your last resort, and only then if you can see a way clear to pay it out.

I know this is incredibly hard. I have an uncle and aunt who have been in financial strife their entire lives (they are now early 60's in age). I have tried to help them with advice (I refuse to give money if advice is ignored), but they think I am being rude, even though I speak as gently, politely and constructively as possible. The hardest part is the spending bit. Many people just don't understand the link between the spending and resultant lack of funds.

Finally, if you are still feeling badly about this, keep posting and we will keep trying to help you. Let us know how you go, and take care.:)
 
i'll jump on the bandwagon and suggest they sell the house also. okay, in 12 months the house might be worth double - but then again it might not go up at all - and what would it be worth in a council firesale as apposed to you selling it privately?

don't give up heart in regards to your own investing - do you want to end up in their situation when you're older? i think not!

so, if you sell the house and pay off all their personal debt, they'll have an extra $900/mth for themselves - on top of what they currently have, and a little left over for a rainy day. that's got to be a big peace of mind for both themselves and you ...
 
Hi Watermelon Man,

2) If you don't have the business running, is there any real reason for your folks to stay renting, or can they move back to the house they own (thus removing the rent expense)? Can they move back anyway, and potentially still run the business (if it is profitable)? Having pensioners with a potentially unprofitable business owning AND renting seems a bit ineffective to me.

3) Cut costs. And I mean really cut costs. Look at what they are spending on day to day and week to week and cut that spending. Small amounts going out over long periods add up to massive amounts of money.

My Folks do not want to go back to their house in Greenvale as I think the boredom & lack of activity/things to do would make them go crazy! My Folks are originally from Cairns & here they are able to get around & see things, get out & about, etc - it's a hive of activity which they love! Greenvale is a small ex-mining town located approx. 200kms either way to Charters Towers & Mt. Garnet - no shopping centres or hive of activity there - so living & retiring in Cairns is a lifestyle choice which they won't change their opinion on.

My Mum is frugal & budgets very well - I guess all 3 of us were hoping that the tourism business would've taken off by now & extra income coming in from that would've got rid of their existing loans, etc; but unfortunately it hasn't! :(
 
My Folks do not want to go back to their house in Greenvale as I think the boredom & lack of activity/things to do would make them go crazy! My Folks are originally from Cairns & here they are able to get around & see things, get out & about, etc - it's a hive of activity which they love! Greenvale is a small ex-mining town located approx. 200kms either way to Charters Towers & Mt. Garnet - no shopping centres or hive of activity there - so living & retiring in Cairns is a lifestyle choice which they won't change their opinion on.

My Mum is frugal & budgets very well - I guess all 3 of us were hoping that the tourism business would've taken off by now & extra income coming in from that would've got rid of their existing loans, etc; but unfortunately it hasn't! :(

With all due respect, it may not be a choice that they have whether to move ot not. The fact that they've left the bills to pile up for a few years suggests that they haven't been facing the reality for a while. Making a lifestyle choice requires money, which they don't have.

Unfortunately businesses don't always take off. Property doesn't always appreciate in the short term, either. Unfortunately, the council or the bank isn't going to allow 'because my business hasn't done as well as I expected' as a reason for not paying.

Your parents may need to make some hard choices. Home ownership may not be the best option if they can't afford it.

As for your own situation: keep at it. It sounds harsh but imagine if your parents had had what you have now at your age. If anything I would have thought your parents' plight would make you redouble your efforts to invest yourself.
Alex
 
The way the bus is setup (licensing-wise) - it is a free courtesy bus so we cannot transport people to & from others destinations; only from others places to our specific destination.

sounds like business is operating under a very heavy constraint which makes it very unlikely to "take off" UNLESS the "specific destination" itself takes off and lots more people suddenly start going there. and it will have to take off a LOT in order to turn around a business bleeding that much money.

in reality your parents are just working for the beneift of the specific destination not really operating their OWN business. is there a way to free up the licensing to use the asset (bus) to its fullest?

if not, then sell. hard to accept but something has to change.
 
I'm in the sell it now camp too. Who knows what will happen in 2-3 years. Prices may go up, but then again they may not. I think to cut your losses would relieve a lot of stress.

As for the Business, can you change the licensing so that you can do both the tourist attractions & an Airport Shuttle service.
 
all this talk & more talk about having to supply this & that to the banks is really driving my Mum crazy - she's sick & tired of hearing about it! They would rather plod on, than go & pursue trying to get another loan through another lender as it means having to supply another "novel" of information to the lender, etc.

OK then, sounds like her mind is made up....plod on.
 
Just all this talk & more talk about having to supply this & that to the banks is really driving my Mum crazy - she's sick & tired of hearing about it! They would rather plod on,

and if plodding on means ignoring the realities of overdue bills and a business that is dodgy - then you may be left with no choice but to let the lot fall in a heap, so at least they have their eyes opened.

i hope that plodding on means getting rid of the house (instead of trying to refinance), re-exaiming the business and making some tough decisions.

i understand your father wanting to work - but if the business is losing money then you all need to seriously look at whether this is the business for them. if they sell the house it will given them a little play money to perhaps sell the minibus and buy into something with better prospects. assuming you can't expand the minibus business.

reality sucks sometimes - but only by facing it can the obstacles be overcome ...
 
Can you or your parents make an offer to the council to make regular paymnets on the rates. Even if it was going to take a few years to clear it's being ignored that annoys creditors.

In relation to the business. Can you find somewhere to get some input/mentoring on the business. There used to be Business Enterprise Centres. Possibly something like that. Maybe the Chamber of Commerce might know. If you have not already done so I suggest you develop a business plan.
 
I think they should see a financial counsellor who will be able to help them manage their loans better. I think it is too much for you to be able to help them especially by sacrificing your own assets/equity. That is a bad idea. If they are not intending to live in their own house then they should sell it while they can - you don't know for a fact that it will be worth double in the next 12 months and in fact the bottom could fall out of the market and they may not be able to sell at all. Not to mention they would owe even more to the council by then.

You say you hate money, but it is not money that has gotten them into this situation rather than the lack of knowledge on how to make money work for them. The last thing you should be thinking about is selling all your properties and renting because you will only end up like them or worse if you do. This really should be a wake-up call to you about how the lack of knowledge about investing in good quality assets when young can stuff up your old age. You have that knowledge so don't waste it.

If you want to help them why not let them stay with you rent free for a period of time so they can put all their available income into paying off the council.
 
In any case helping them creates a moral hazard. They have no incentive to change their money habits if their son will bail them out. Which is fine from the point of view of filial piety and all that, but if you do it be prepared for the need for more 'help' in the future.

You comment about hating money is purely an emotional response, and emotions are NOT what is needed here. What's causing the stress is the mismanagement of money.
Alex
 
Hi

QLD State Development Centres (there is one in Cairns, http://www.sd.qld.gov.au/dsdweb/v3/guis/templates/content/gui_cue_menu.cfm?id=240) have been running ads about helping small business owners - it's free and they do know their stuff from what I heard.

You'll always be their child so your advice will always be viewed by your parents with that in mind even if though you are streets ahead with your financial education and have been propping them up with hard cash for a long time. So as others said do get external help and have someone else explain the pros and cons and what to do.

Hope it all works out and your parents should be very proud of you!

kaf
 
I'm with Alex on this one WM,

I do know how tough it can be....I'm from a very poor family background and my parents have never had their own home, hence my passion/incentive for creating a better future for myself and my own family (and even them in their retirement) through investing.

Mum and dad haven't been together for years now but still struggle financially (as individuals) and probably always will (it is their mindset and they have always spent what they haven't got).

I do help mum out with her rent as rents have risen rather sharply in Perth over the last 12-18 months. I can afford to do that, which she really appreciates, whilst still growing my portfolio.

Don't be so hard on yourself WM, you did not create this and you are doing your best to carve a better future for yourself and your own family.

Keep your chin up.:)

sq
 
I believe that a persons attitude is what determines where they end up. As said before your mums attitude of just plodding along astounds me as I can't see how having to hand over documents to a bank is such a burden versus just continuing to spiral into more debt. Nobody can help you if your not prepared to help yourself.

I can understand wanting to hold onto the house because of possible future growth but desperate times call for desparate measures and sometimes you have to take a few steps back to go forward.

Also I just can't believe that there is no way to make money with the minibus. I suggest having a look around at other minibus companies and what opportunities there may be to utilise the bus to make an income. Even if it means your dad doesn't drive it but just leases it out to someone. What about approaching backpacker hostels and signing contracts to provide them with transport for their guests.

Whatever you decide to do, just make sure your parents realise that regardless of their age or situation, they can get out of this mess if they have a positive attitude and try everything in their power to help themselves and I'm sure with you by their side they will be ok.

Good Luck

George
 
Hi WM.

Was just thinking of the emotional stress that would escalate by "plodding on" for that 2-3 yearswhilst trying to juggle the debt (which may get worse)

Even if the house did go up in value, life and a clear thinking mind are more valuable IMHO.

Regards
Marty
 
Just received a phone call from the broker who said that the bank has declined the refinance/consolidation loan for my Folks. I spoke to my Folks thereafter & they're not too concerned. My Dad has rang the Council saying that they're going to make a $1,000 payment this week & another payment in about 1 month's time; to which to Council is happy with that. Selling the house is only a last resort to them. I am going to refinance my 3 properties in Feb 2008 & most likely draw down around $20,000 to just clear their home loan & rates bill - which they said is the only loans they're concerned with paying. The business car loan is not an issue. I also have around $20,000 in commissions owed to me in the next 2-3 months which I can use if need be. They're not upset with the rejection & are looking forward to the future!
 
Just received a phone call from the broker who said that the bank has declined the refinance/consolidation loan for my Folks. I spoke to my Folks thereafter & they're not too concerned.

They're not upset with the rejection & are looking forward to the future!

Why aren't they concerned? Because you've said you're going to pay the bills for them? And what are they going to do differently to make sure this doesn't happen again, other than gambling on the fact that their house is going to appreciate quickly in the near future?
Alex
 
I hate to say it, but I don't think this will be the end to your parents financial problems.

If you refinance your properties and pay off their bills, is this a tax deduction for you?
Would buying their house and then "renting" it back to them at fair market ease their cashflow and provide you with a tax deduction? Then if the property was to double in value as you hope, you could, if you wanted to, gift your parents a monthly cheque equal to the value of the gain (such as a reverse mortgage).Of course they would still pay you rent, which would make the mortgage payment.
I think this would be a win-win situation.

Good luck in whatever you decide.
 
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