It doesn't pay to give tenants without references a chance.

As they say no good deed goes unpunished.

We have an IP that is not too far from from where we live and we have occasion to drive past every couple of weeks. We advertised it four months ago with a fairly substantial rental increase and got three applicants immediately. Of the three, the PM thought the best bet was a young couple with a couple of little kids but they had no references so she suggested we put them on a three month lease to see how they would go. Everything seemed ok, rent always paid on time and the place kept relatively neat and tidy. The yard was looking a little messy but nothing too bad or what you wouldn't expect with a couple of kids so they signed up for a further six months.

Now we have noticed that the yard is starting to look like a second hand car/boat/caravan yard. The rental lease states that they are not allowed to have their cars or visitor’s cars parked anywhere except the designated parking areas, not on lawns or nature strips. And they aren’t supposed to have any unregistered vehicle on the property unless it is the only vehicle they own and then it must be properly garaged. There is a caravan out the back, another one in the front driveway and a huge boat down the side of the property. They have asked permission to park the boat there, but there has been no mention of the caravans or the cars (some without wheels) that have appeared as well.

Anyway they have been asking for an air conditioner and my OH was able to get his hands on one from work relatively cheaply so popped up there yesterday to drop it off. They weren’t there but the mother or mother-in-law was. She always is actually. Every time he has gone up there to do any repair that has been requested she is there along with at least four or five other people. Anyway he copped a mouthful of abuse from the mother when he made the mistake of saying that the yard was looking a bit messy. That got his back up and he asked how many people were living there, given that she was acting as though she lived there herself, but her name doesn’t appear on the lease. She said that was none of his business and ordered him off the property saying he has no right to just drop in like that. He had told the PM that he would be dropping in when he got the air conditioner and asked that she tell the tenants. We know he really should have given 24 hours notice but given that they had requested the air conditioner and he had told the PM he would get one he thought it would be ok. Incidentally it always has been in the past when he has popped up to do any little repair they have requested. So now he is a little worried about what the inside of the property might look like. The outside is taking on the appearance of one of those properties you see on the news from time to time. It’s not all that long since the PM did an inspection and everything was ok then but the vehicles that the tenant is in the process of doing up (caravan, boat and car) are breeding, not to mention the other bits and pieces of cars that are strewn all over the front verandah. My OH asked if he could see inside and was told “NO” in no uncertain terms. He has told the PM about all this and she is going to try to talk to the tenants today, but he just wants them out now. They are effectively in breach of the lease with the vehicles that are there now anyway. But even if they clean the place up and he backs down and they stay, there is no way in hell they are getting the air conditioner now, thanks to Mum. And I guess he won’t be attending to every little complaint quite as quickly as they might like either.
 
Why not issue a "notice to remedy breach" for whatever issues they are actually in breach for?

I would be organising an internal inspection (the house, not the mother :D) as soon as legally possible, and could your other half accompany the PM on that inspection? We self manage, so don't know the rules about PMs and inspections and whether the LL can tag along.

Sounds like you could issue a notice right now regarding the cars/boats/caravans (whatever is actually in breach) and once an internal inspection is done, the PM should be able to issue a notice regarding people living their who are not listed on the lease.

Finally, we never even check references, mainly because we use gut instinct, but also because nobody is going to give a private landlord a bad reference. We rarely get caught out, so I would say that you are just unlucky with this lot. Make sure everything is documented by the PM (follow it up every step) so that you are on firm ground for an upcoming eviction :D.

Good luck.
 
Thanks Wylie,

Yeah we are able to tag along on an inspection. We are always invited but tend to leave it to the PM anyway. She only did an inspection a month ago though, so I think she has to wait another two months before she can do another. Maybe she can get in earlier given that they are in breach of the lease with the extra vehicles parked on the front lawn but I would hazard a guess they have been moved already. Ah well, them's the breaks. That's what we have insurance for I guess. One person's mess is another person's treasure too I suppose. :) Mum didn't seem to think there was any mess. Apparently bits and pieces of cars all over the front verandah is perfectly ok at her place. If she does in fact have a place of her own and doesn't live with the tenants then maybe they could take their 'treasures' over to her place.;)
 
pretty much sums up resi investments. They're ok until you get a deadbeat tenant - then you find you have no legal protection and very little control of the process going forward. It's one big leap of faith. Now you can only write off the next 3 or 4 months rent and roll the dice on the next set of faces that turn up.
 
pretty much sums up resi investments. They're ok until you get a deadbeat tenant - then you find you have no legal protection and very little control of the process going forward. It's one big leap of faith. Now you can only write off the next 3 or 4 months rent and roll the dice on the next set of faces that turn up.

I would disagree with this attitude. In Queensland they only have to be seven days in breach to issue the notice to remedy, then another seven days to issue notice to leave. If you make sure you keep on the PM to issue those notices as soon as they fall due, fingers crossed you may lose very little (if anything).

(I gather from reading posts on this forum that some states have much longer waiting periods before you can evict a tenant, but in Queensland it can be done much sooner :).)

My parents have taken tenants to tribunal twice, and won both cases, losing nothing at all. We once had ferals leave a mess, most of which insurance covered.

Apart from those instances, we have had pretty much trouble free experiences over more than 30 years in both mum's and my landlord experiences.
 
I tend to agree with Wylie. This is the first time we have had any major problems, and I doubt we would even consider this major if it wasn't for the abuse coming from the mother. If her response had been something along the lines of "yeah I know, they will get rid of most of this stuff this weekend" instead of "get off the property" then that would have been the end of it.

I have always taken the stand that it doesn't matter how messy the place is as long as it is clean and tidy when they vacate. We have a good PM now who is usually on top of things like this and I think that if we didn't live so close and see what happens between inspections we wouldn't be worrying about it. At least they always pay their rent on time.
 
If you have a choice, never take tenants without a solid rental history, it is more important than income.

Property investing is a business, where there is a breach of lease there are appropriate forms to fill out to remedy or terminate! There are solutions for every problem and insurance covers the rest.
 
I didn't read past your 1st post...
Personally I don't know what you're worried about. So they have a lot of crap lying around...they still pay the rent and you said yourself that the place looked good.

For all you know the 4-5 people that you THINK are there, actually are only the couple, their kids and a mother-in-law who stays over a lot to help out with the babysitting.

IMO too much premature stressing for nothing.
 
Actually none of the applicants for this property had what the PM thought was a 'solid' rental history. One hadn't stayed anywhere longer than three months, another lied about something on the rental application and these people had no previous rental history at all, probably lived at home with Mum. Sometimes you just have to use your gut instinct and that's what she did. Can't be right 100% of the time, that's life. I am the mother of two boys and if they had the chance when they were the age of this guy our yard would have looked something like this too, so I'm hoping that's all it is and it will sort itself out. If not, well like I said, that's what we have insurance for. It's Mum's attitude that pissed us off, and she's not doing her son or daughter (not sure which) any favours either.
 
I didn't read past your 1st post...
Personally I don't know what you're worried about. So they have a lot of crap lying around...they still pay the rent and you said yourself that the place looked good.

For all you know the 4-5 people that you THINK are there, actually are only the couple, their kids and a mother-in-law who stays over a lot to help out with the babysitting.

IMO too much premature stressing for nothing.

If you had bothered to read past the first post you would see that there wasn't any stressing, premature or otherwise, until my OH copped a mouthful of abuse. My point was, that's the thanks you get for taking a chance and giving a young couple with no rental history a go. I'm sure they are grateful, they have always appeared so, but someone should blow up bloody mothers. Where's Ted Bullpit when you need him. Oh oh, showing my age now.
 
FWIW, I'd also be very hesitant in giving a young couple with no references an opportunity anymore either.

Thought I'd try to give this young couple a 'go' but they soon got behind in rent (on a 3 month lease) so it was decided not to renew the lease. They were given due notice, and ended up staying a bit longer with the excuse that the extra money owing can come from bond. Even with bond, they will still owe a bit more, plus carpet cleaning. The back lawn, and sides of house (which had been cleaned up and filled in with pebbles/stones just prior to them moving in) looked like it hadn't been touched the whole time they were there. Knee high and full of weeds.

I think they "may" come good with outstanding monies, but how someone lives in yard you can't really access is beyond me.

Regards
Marty
 
I kept trying to think of a rejoinder Kissfan but everything I put down would probably get me banned these days. We can't blow up ladies with certain 'habits' anymore or abuse w***s with purple valiants, but maybe we can still wash Neville the concrete indiginous person.

Ted Bullpit lived before political correctness, bless his little bigoted heart.

Edited to add ... Sorry mate, was still trying to think of something to say about Kingswood Country when you posted the second time so missed it. Hope it all works out for you.
 
I didn't read past your 1st post...
If you had bothered to read past the first post you would see that there wasn't any stressing, premature or otherwise, until my OH copped a mouthful of abuse. My point was, that's the thanks you get for taking a chance and giving a young couple with no rental history a go. I'm sure they are grateful, they have always appeared so, but someone should blow up bloody mothers.
Hehehe.. I love this.
If you had bothered to read MY post you would see that I did read your 1st post.
And in your post I did see stressing - that's what interpretation is all about.
But hey, I guess you were just having a whinge.
Sounds like you're a woman so I guess it's allowed. :)
 
First rule of being a landlord; don't drive past the joint - ever.

You'll have a heart attack most times.

Just get the place managed and leave it to them.

Having said that, the way the m-i-l acted towards your other half who went there sounds as if they are serial tenants who "know their rights" if you know what I mean.

Time to get rid of them.

Get the PM to issue a breach.

Make sure you have your Landlord's Insurance paid up first.
 
Marc, your reply about "tenants who know their rights" reminded me of a house my mum has rented where one tenant left and the remaining one asked for permission to get in another lady to rent half the house.

No real problems, but this new lady tried to run a business from the house which involved students being on the premises, which my mother insisted she have appropriate insurance for. This became a huge issue and the woman stopped the classes and finally left. In the meantime, because she had been foiled from running her business (only because she was too cheap to take out the insurance) she insisted on the proper entry notice even for the lawn mowing man. That's right, according to the RTA, every person organised by the landlord to come onto the property had to go through the rigmarole of giving appropriate notice, because this woman was insisting on it, and she "knew her rights".

There was a roof leak, and this woman was ringing my mother saying "my bed is wet, blah, blah, blah.....". Tell someone who cares about your bed lady :p. Of course, it was something my mother was very keen to have fixed, but she sweetly told this woman "the roofer will drop a notice in your letterbox giving his 24 hours' notice so he will be allowed in". Of course, in this instance the woman wanted him there RIGHT NOW, TONIGHT.

If it had been possible for this to happen, it would have, because my mum is not one to jeopardise her house for the sake of winning a point, but the roofer would not get on the roof while it was raining, so he had to wait until the rain stopped, hence my mother's glee at telling this woman that she would be waiting the appropriate notice period so he could come in legally, and in the meantime, perhaps the tenant could use a bucket to catch the drips :).

We all had a bit of a giggle really at this woman flexing her muscles, thinking she was "winning". She is gone now, thank goodness. I pity her new landlord and hope he or she realises she will probably run a business from their house as well, without insurance, putting their financial well being at risk.
 
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