It's more than a box
- Thread starter Rockstar
- Start date
So far my experience has been, change PM's bills still unpaid. Are you self mananging your properties?
Our tenants are paying market value rent and they are in no position to save to purchase a home of their own. They say they are perfectly happy to rent at this time in their lives, and particularly THIS house. They are happy, we are happy. And yes Rockstar, I too believe that as a landlord (lady) I am providing "goods and services' that my customers would not be able to access otherwise.
Bluestorm, I cant speak for Sydney, but up here in a parrallel universe that is not Sydney, rents are way lower than what FHBs would have to pay out in mortgage repayments (is that the same most places?). Most residents are on below national average incomes too. In fact rents in the region where we have our properties have not increased at all in the 18 months since we began, we have no reason to increase ours at the moment. Yes, I am certainly doing my community a favour by being a landlord and providing decent housing to decent low-income consumers. Our tenants are our future retirement lifeblood, I will treat them well. We might be niave newbies, but we will treat our properties very well too. No leaking plumbing to ruin the cabinetry, the floors or the walls.
I'm not surprised about bluestorm's attitude. Having driven through Sydney and its suburbs (particularly west), I can see why Sydney people get so angry about where they live. So many tollways, far to travel and you still have to pay high rent on top of that. Wouldn't like to be a Sydney renter or a landlord!
Well said, Angel. I reckon you've got to the heart of the matter. Just because people need (or choose) to rent doesn't make them the landlord's automatic adversary, or vice versa. They're just people, almost always decent hardworking folk, who happen to require a service you can provide. Like in any service, there is an exchange of money, but there is also an ethical engagement.
The law of the state might enforce the underlying contract, but mutual ethical obligations are actually the real glue that binds civil societies together. Landlords and tenants (just as businesses and clients) don't try to cheat each other merely because the law prevents them: For most, they simply just don't want to be that person!
Sounds like you guys maybe self-manage properties. I prefer to pay the 7% fee and have the agent manage and not get emotionally attached with the tenants, or the property.
Being a tenant myself, I wouldn't have a clue who the landlord is, or their situation. Just adhere to my end of the contract and pay the rent on time, and keep the place clean. But hoping I get a touchy feelgood landlord like you guys thinking he's doing a service for the community (maybe even keeping the rent below market
).
Don't know, maybe it's because you people invest in lower end places and locations, so need to pamper to the tenants. Our last property opening for new tenants had 20 groups through, so if one doesn't conform, then there are many more in line.
I treat them as per the contract they signed. In fact, I don't treat them like anything cause the agent is the point of contact. Our properties are our future retirement lifeblood. The tenants are transient, and in the course of owning there is likelyhood that a property may have 5+ tenants in 20yrs.
Being a tenant myself, I wouldn't have a clue who the landlord is, or their situation. Just adhere to my end of the contract and pay the rent on time, and keep the place clean. But hoping I get a touchy feelgood landlord like you guys thinking he's doing a service for the community (maybe even keeping the rent below market
).Don't know, maybe it's because you people invest in lower end places and locations, so need to pamper to the tenants. Our last property opening for new tenants had 20 groups through, so if one doesn't conform, then there are many more in line.
I treat them as per the contract they signed. In fact, I don't treat them like anything cause the agent is the point of contact. Our properties are our future retirement lifeblood. The tenants are transient, and in the course of owning there is likelyhood that a property may have 5+ tenants in 20yrs.
Sounds like you guys maybe self-manage properties. I prefer to pay the 7% fee and have the agent manage and not get emotionally attached with the tenants, or the property.
Being a tenant myself, I wouldn't have a clue who the landlord is, or their situation. Just adhere to my end of the contract and pay the rent on time, and keep the place clean. But hoping I get a touchy feelgood landlord like you guys thinking he's doing a service for the community (maybe even keeping the rent below market
Don't know, maybe it's because you people invest in lower end places and locations, so need to pamper to the tenants. Our last property opening for new tenants had 20 groups through, so if one doesn't conform, then there are many more in line.
I treat them as per the contract they signed. In fact, I don't treat them like anything cause the agent is the point of contact. Our properties are our future retirement lifeblood. The tenants are transient, and in the course of owning there is likelyhood that a property may have 5+ tenants in 20yrs.
Wouldn't you ask for a little less rent if the tenant had proven to you they were stable, reliable, and responsible?
Why
That is their duty anyway, so why are you rewarding them with cheaper rent for doing what they are obligate to do anyway. Your not Gen Y are you. Need the little gold star stickers for being a good boy.Landlord costs are increasing yearly. Insurance, council, water service, strata, maintenance costs, etc.
Why
Landlord costs are increasing yearly. Insurance, council, water service, strata, maintenance costs, etc.
No, I am not Gen Y, my dear myopic friend. I am just avoiding vacancies, spurious maintenance aggravation and rental payment delinquency by recognising social reality. If I show them a little non-monetary appreciation they will will generally do likewise. And, get this, they do! I both self-manage and have PMs by the way, and have seen it from the inside of an R/E agency.
You know the definition of lazy? Bad PMs. (I've got good ones myself, but worked briefly in the same office as very bad ones.) So your PM angle is just as fraught as your 'contract-determinant' angle. Both leave you open to bad relations (even if you're personally involved or not), and no smart business person - let alone community member - wouldn't cleverly avoid that.
I live my life (and as a result, my investing) by my 2 manta's - "treat others how I wish to be treated" and "good things happen to good people".
I run my investing as a business (and not as a not-for-profit business) and am not emotionally invested into the properties. In saying that though, I am human and so are my tenants. I do sometimes wonder why they are renting a home (whether it be one that I own or another investor) instead of "living the Aussie dream" and living in their own home but 99% of the time it's a question that goes unanswered. I also do wonder sometimes if they think about their "landlord" and what they think of me, but I do try to avoid that as I think it's very unhealthy spending too much time wondering what other people think of you.
If my tennants make requests that I am not obliged to fulfill I will try to meet their needs (within reason) as I belive a happy tennant will stay longer and wont mind paying just that little bit extra rent and will be more respectful to the property. Maybe I am being a little naive and looking at things through rose coloured glasses but it's working for me so far.
When I do get to the stage where I am more financially and time free I will do more for the community and try to pay back some of the good life has given me.
I run my investing as a business (and not as a not-for-profit business) and am not emotionally invested into the properties. In saying that though, I am human and so are my tenants. I do sometimes wonder why they are renting a home (whether it be one that I own or another investor) instead of "living the Aussie dream" and living in their own home but 99% of the time it's a question that goes unanswered. I also do wonder sometimes if they think about their "landlord" and what they think of me, but I do try to avoid that as I think it's very unhealthy spending too much time wondering what other people think of you.
If my tennants make requests that I am not obliged to fulfill I will try to meet their needs (within reason) as I belive a happy tennant will stay longer and wont mind paying just that little bit extra rent and will be more respectful to the property. Maybe I am being a little naive and looking at things through rose coloured glasses but it's working for me so far.
When I do get to the stage where I am more financially and time free I will do more for the community and try to pay back some of the good life has given me.
The point is - what is the volition behind your IP business? Is it merely a vehicle to put money in your pocket or does it stretch beyond that? I think I know your answer.
You are right.
My volition is to make money. Pure and simple. It's all about me and my family's future. Why should Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have all the fun?
Mind you, I am following all the rules associated with being a conscientious Landlord, and providing a respectable place for my tenants to live.
Let's have a poll to see who among us only ever had money as their motivator to invest, or only ever had a greater moral and social purpose for their IP investing than that.
Yes and I am definitely not critical of anyone with this volition. I began in the same way although I probably had some thoughts running around my head trying to intellectualise that I was helping others as well. This has developed into the experience that I really am helping others and is bringing deeper satisfaction. You and Bluey may think this is delusion but you obviously have no intention to believe it may be the case? Again, not being critical, but I believe that the more selfish the attitude - the less contentment one will derive from ones business dealings whether it be providing property for rent or sale, or providing anything else for rent or sale.
When I was self-managing a couple of properties I enjoyed it and got the same satisfaction you have. Due to having properties interstate I'm no longer self managing. My experience having property managers is that it can be a bit like 'chinese whispers'. It is so much easier to deal direct with one person to get to the bottom of any issues. I've got a townhouse that I've had for about 4 years with an on-site manager which is quite satisfying to own. It's so trouble free I often forget I have it. I wish they were all like that.
Many things to me, and only talking for myself.
My sense of humanity never left me just because I chose to become an investor. I had a strong desire to accumulate wealth via property investing, but my basic personality has not changed, and if anything I am even richer in having learnt many things from all sorts of people and life 'stuff'. Let alone the actual $$$ benefits.
I've always loved houses, architecture, and I enjoy the deals and buying well, the constructions, but I do like to present them well also, it's just good business. I think I take more pride in 'that what I do, I believe I do well.'
I have, as a side benefit from that been able to achieve premium rental returns, finding special niches, more deals, more networks. I have incredible tenants, (and they like to remain longterm). I love doing what I'm doing, and now venturing into other areas of investment with equally as much enthusiasm.
Bottom line would be investing has been good to me, and I do think I am good at investing, but my sense of humanity is alive and very healthy, not just in the investing area of my life. By accumulating wealth it also gives me opportunity to develop that part of me too, not restricting to 'houses'.
It's all good.
My sense of humanity never left me just because I chose to become an investor. I had a strong desire to accumulate wealth via property investing, but my basic personality has not changed, and if anything I am even richer in having learnt many things from all sorts of people and life 'stuff'. Let alone the actual $$$ benefits.
I've always loved houses, architecture, and I enjoy the deals and buying well, the constructions, but I do like to present them well also, it's just good business. I think I take more pride in 'that what I do, I believe I do well.'
I have, as a side benefit from that been able to achieve premium rental returns, finding special niches, more deals, more networks. I have incredible tenants, (and they like to remain longterm). I love doing what I'm doing, and now venturing into other areas of investment with equally as much enthusiasm.
Bottom line would be investing has been good to me, and I do think I am good at investing, but my sense of humanity is alive and very healthy, not just in the investing area of my life. By accumulating wealth it also gives me opportunity to develop that part of me too, not restricting to 'houses'.
It's all good.
What's selfish? I'm not selfish at all.
I am putting a lot of energy into providing a financial future for my family - far more than yer average Moccie wearing loser bogan on welfare, choofing away a fortune in ciggies and sucking down another in grog, while the kids have to amuse themselves down at the skate park and the mall all weekend.
We know a family near us - the hubbie is a truck driver, the wife works part time in a law office. They make ok money.
He spends his whole w'end and considerable dollars playing with a rally car, or on fishing trips away with the boys. She is an ebay shopper, and the two kids spend much of their time on Xbox, and all holidays at the Grandparents..
They spend all they earn, they go nowhere and have no investments for their family's future.
Who is more selfish?
As I said; I do all that I should to adhere to the Tenancy laws as they currently stand, and I provide a few more dwellings for rent for those less fortunate that otherwise might not be available..
I know that I am helping others to put a roof over their head; I just don't have to get all fuzzy about it.
I never regarded property investors as greedy looks like I might have to reasses. Money it self is useless you cant eat it . It is what you do with it that gives it value. I have a property I dont charge rent on, in it are orphaned and abandon kids, students and widows. some of whom I pay tuition fees for. The returns from that investment are far greater than any other investment, but bluestorm wouldnt understand that. It was only purchased as buffering plan EWhy do so many people look at property as simply a vehicle for creating wealth? By investing our hard earned dollars into an income producing asset is fine but who ever gains satisfaction from the feeling that they are actually providing a home for someone to live in? As time goes on this satisfying part of my investment journey is developing and I am grateful for the change of mind toward the fact that I am providing goods and services to the community.The main ingredient here is, of course, mental volition = level of satisfaction. When anything becomes merely a money making machine for selfish ME there may be pleasure for the ego but no deeper satisfaction of providing assistance to others.
The mindset is shifting from how much profits can I make to how can I improve the product I am supplying while maintaining my own financial requirements that suit my life goals.
Would love to hear from some of the longer term property investors regarding their attitude to this?
You cannt put a price on the joy and appreciation those kids show. One girl I put threw school went on got a good job then married a wealthy english Investor, as a result I now have acess to accomodation for free that is usually only used by film stars. She has now bought some land and is planning to build accomodation for those less fortunate. Any way the foregone rent is insigificant when compared to the CG, I dont want to make excessive profit at the expense of those who were dealt a bad hand in fact the idea disgusts me.
Both refreshing attitudes. Hope you both succeed in your goals.
It's those qualities of compassion that really inspire me Buster. Glad you could share it with us.
You think that anyone who has the desire to help others through their business dealings is "getting fuzzy"? I think you are missing the point Marc which is understandable considering that you seem to be comparing yourself with those you obviously look down on?
As far as selfishness goes, we all suffer from it in many varying degrees. Some acknowledge it and make sincere effort to develop an opposing quality. Others deny it and remain ignorant or refuse to deal with it.
We're property investing for our families future, not running a charity. The charity groups get a lot of tax free donations, and we all pay a lot in tax for governments who should be handling these charity cases, not expecting investors to pick up the slack.
I'm happy you feel all warm and fuzzy about helping abandoned kids and widows. But don't get property investing mixed up with your holy though Bill Gates type philanthropy.
I have no clue where you guys invest in property, in the sticks in poor slum neighbourhoods??. But our investments are in locations where professional workers are the primary renters. So I have no time for sad case stories when these people probably get payed $100K+ as a couple. All I care is that they meet their rental obligations.
Interesting mindset Bluey - reminds me a little of TPS.
Why shouldn't, I ask, someone get property investing mixed up with philanthropy?