It's more than a box

[buster]

I am all right Jack, stuff every-one else.

Bluestorm we dont all pay alot in taxes, only those to lazy to arrange there affairs so they dont, do. The whole point of investing in property is converting money that would otherwise been paid as tax into an apreciating asset that you can draw on and get a deduction on at the same time. Its a cop out leaving everthing for goverments they cause more problems than they ever fix , waste alot of money for little result. I dont beleive in helping those who rely on charity and not make any attempt to improve their situation. But I think those who show some ambition and desire to get ahead and have absolutely no resources should be helped. I dont know why investing for your families future and being charitable are mutually exclusive, but I guess the greedy will always justify their greed to themselves. Its sad your family is not getting a lesson that there is more to life than money and material possesions.

 

[bluestorm]

Bluestorm we dont all pay alot in taxes, only those to lazy to arrange there affairs so they dont, do. The whole point of investing in property is converting money that would otherwise been paid as tax into an apreciating asset that you can draw on and get a deduction on at the same time.

I dont know why investing for your families future and being charitable are mutually exclusive, but I guess the greedy will always justify their greed to themselves. Its sad your family is not getting a lesson that there is more to life than money and material possesions.

Your a damn hypocrite buster. Read your two paragraphs above.

So what your saying is to reduce your taxes to almost nothing, and be greedy accumulating your assets by not contributing to the tax base that is used for hospitals, schools, roads, etc., but then in the same breath saying others are greedy by not contributing their after tax dollars to charity.

Mate, maybe if you didn't shirk your responsibility to pay your fair share of tax, you wouldn't have a guilty conscience and a need to be charitable later.

And not all of us a silly enough to be negatively geared to reduce your tax in the current property market (where property values aren't going up to offset the NG loss)

It's always the righteous you tend to be the most hypocritical.

 

[Belbo]

Your a damn hypocrite buster. Read your two paragraphs above.

It's always the righteous you tend to be the most hypocritical.

What I'm wondering is why you feel so threatened by Buster's (or Rockstar's) sentiments as to be responding with such seeming hostility?

 

[buster]

Blue storm I did nt say i dont pay any tax, I did nt even mention any thing about the tax I pay. But if you like to know I try to keep it under 30%. You mentoned property Investors pay a lot of tax . I just said not all property investors pay alot of tax and pointed that the reason some property investors invest is to reduce tax. you are free to disagree. Where did I say " others are greedy by not giving their after tax dollars to charity"?? You show your ignorance about the property market when you say the" property market isnt going up" there is so many different markets. Some markets are not going up, others are. I even have bought the market using indexed funds just received my dividends a couple of days ago of 12% yeild. I have properties in regional areas gone up 8- 11% in the last year, one of the reasons because rents have gone up 30%, my interest rates have gone down .25%. Oh silly me those properties that were nuetral or negetively geared 3 months ago are now positive. In some markets prices are at record highs. My property is doing just fine, infact the neighbor just told me another neighbor just knocked back an offer 50% more than he paid for it 2.5 years ago. You wouldnt even begin to understand what my property at Clarke is doing.

 

[bluestorm]

I dont know why investing for your families future and being charitable are mutually exclusive, but I guess the greedy will always justify their greed to themselves. Its sad your family is not getting a lesson that there is more to life than money and material possesions.

No wonder you feel the need to be charitable, and cast those who aren't as charitable as greedy investors with no morals. The pot calling the kettle black.
Your the reason a lot of your tenants think is the problem with property investors. Greedy investors, tax reduction, cheering Capital gains, making things less affordable for them. Rents up 30%. Prices up 50% in 2.5yrs.
Who's the greedy one mate!! Your pricing out the next generation and cheering. Maybe your family should learn that lesson. "more to life than money and material possesions."

I have properties in regional areas gone up 8- 11% in the last year, one of the reasons because rents have gone up 30%, my interest rates have gone down .25%. Oh silly me those properties that were nuetral or negetively geared 3 months ago are now positive. In some markets prices are at record highs. My property is doing just fine, infact the neighbor just told me another neighbor just knocked back an offer 50% more than he paid for it 2.5 years ago. You wouldnt even begin to understand what my property at Clarke is doing.

 

[AlmostBob]

Like any other farmer
Keep the barns maintained
Keep the cattle healthy
keep the harvest high
as soon as the cattle get a disease, call the vet
if the vet bill would be too high, shoot the animal
once in a while no matter how much you spend on the vet, a favorite cow will die
and how much you maintain the fences a devious cow will escape

 

[Rockstar]

Who's the greedy one mate!! [/I]

Greed and jealousy are a couple of the most destructive mental states in a human being and often go hand in hand. Your twisted assumptions in this thread are quite baffling and lead me to conclude that it would serve you well to do some serious introspection Bluey. I honestly have compassion for you.

 

[buster]

No wonder you feel the need to be charitable, and cast those who aren't as charitable as greedy investors with no morals. The pot calling the kettle black.
Your the reason a lot of your tenants think is the problem with property investors. Greedy investors, tax reduction, cheering Capital gains, making things less affordable for them. Rents up 30%. Prices up 50% in 2.5yrs.
Who's the greedy one mate!! Your pricing out the next generation and cheering. Maybe your family should learn that lesson. "more to life than money and material possesions."

Bluestorm You make ludicrous assumptions about things you know nothing about. Your the one saying the markets going down . I am just pointing out it aint necessarily so.

I have renters coming to me saying I am desperate for a house, I have no reference, I am a single mother, stuck in a slum area, getting hassled by neighbors at all hours wanting to borrow money. They are depressed and even suicidal. They live in a housing commision house. Property managers wont lease them a house. I build my own houses, house that wouldnt exist if I did not build it. It is one less the government (Tax payer at inflated prices) has to provide and maintain, and another house is available for some other needy sole. I dont set the rent market, my rents are are below market rent. I even give a discount until they get back on there feet and get a job. I can build a house for about 200k rent it for 210 a week to begin then put it up to 230 a week for a house I could probably get 260 plus for. One condition is the tennant is expected to do some landscaping and put there own window dressing in. They prefer this anyway. They are very excited about having a dream house they never thought they could have and treat it like their own. They know if they stuff up they will nver get a reference and end up back where they come from. I get them to do the landscaping it saves me money, they get out side and finally do something that gives them a sense of acheivement, realize it feels good get positive and get a a job. Usually part time a few hours a week , cleaning motels or waitressing. That is why the rents have to go up so they realize if they want to keep the house and pay the increased rent they need to get a job. Then they usually go back to school do some course and get a better full time job doing something they want to do. I cant tell the guy who offered the neighbour 50% more than he paid for it what to do with his money. How does that make me greedy? It wasnt an RIP, yep thats right there is other property besides than just RIP and some of it is booming. It was to be bought for the next generation. In fact it was by a father given money by his father, and he decided to buy property for his son. Bluestorm you make assumption and by your negative nature you draw negative conclusions. You take a general comment and take it personally umm some sort of guilt complex?

 

[buster]

By the way bluestorm building houses reduces rents by increasing supply.

 

[Deltaberry]

I treat tenants with respect and try to fix things up asap - but that doesn't mean I don't try to maximise my profitability.

 

[BayView]

You think that anyone who has the desire to help others through their business dealings is "getting fuzzy"?

Virtually every business dealing requires us to help others. We are providing a product or service. It's a given.
It doesn't need to provide us with a feeling of well being or satisfaction, but it invariably does. That's a given as well. I always feel good after helping someone in business; whether it is a car service or new set of tyres these days, or a golfer who improves their handicap after a lesson from my old days.
Many of us simply don't go seeking that aspect of a transaction in order to perform one.
I have no problem with simply performing a transaction that makes me money, but gives me no "high".

But you would have it that we should all aspire to a greater purpose in our dealings than just making money.

Why? That's your gig; just don't expect us all to have the same level of emotional attachment....

"Why do so many people look at property as simply a vehicle for creating wealth?"

Why indeed?

Why do you have such a problem with others not needing to get the emotional high from it?

I think you are missing the point Marc which is understandable considering that you seem to be comparing yourself with those you obviously look down on?

ok, go ahead and resort to personal attacks; no worries to me.
Who are these people you reckon I look down on?
If you are referring to renters, you'd be dead wrong. I have been a renter, and so were my parents for many years, and we have a number of renters in our IP's.
No; people I look down on are those who are criminals, those who defraud the Goverment (us), those who take advantage of others, people who have no respect for their community, the law, etc.

 

[jaycee]

Virtually every business dealing requires us to help others. We are providing a product or service. It's a given.
It doesn't need to provide us with a feeling of well being or satisfaction, but it invariably does. That's a given as well. I always feel good after helping someone in business; whether it is a car service or new set of tyres these days, or a golfer who improves their handicap after a lesson from my old days.
Many of us simply don't go seeking that aspect of a transaction in order to perform one.
I have no problem with simply performing a transaction that makes me money, but gives me no "high".

But you would have it that we should all aspire to a greater purpose in our dealings than just making money.

Why? That's your gig; just don't expect us all to have the same level of emotional attachment....
Why indeed?

Why do you have such a problem with others not needing to get the emotional high from it?


ok, go ahead and resort to personal attacks; no worries to me.
Who are these people you reckon I look down on?
If you are referring to renters, you'd be dead wrong. I have been a renter, and so were my parents for many years, and we have a number of renters in our IP's.
No; people I look down on are those who are criminals, those who defraud the Goverment (us), those who take advantage of others, people who have no respect for their community, the law, etc.

I didn't read Rockstart suggesting others should nor need to.

I read Rockstar saying that he/she has noticed in their own life & mind, that his/her vview had chagned like that. I also got from that a sense he/she did not feel totatlly alone in the world with having that view, I know that I have heard that sort of thing before. So I read Rockstar saying "Wow, listen to what I just noticed, anyone else notice the same ?"

 

[jaycee]

This is what Rockstar as referring to when she mentinoed you missed her point and seem to compare yourself to those you look down upon when you think when someone mentions helping others in society - that post stood out as odd when I read it, before Rockstar's reply.....The point you msissed was Rockstar was talking about helping people, you replied with "I'm not that selfish, there's other people more selfish than me" - you still don't get how you missed the point of what Rockstar was saying

What's selfish? I'm not selfish at all.

I am putting a lot of energy into providing a financial future for my family - far more than yer average Moccie wearing loser bogan on welfare, choofing away a fortune in ciggies and sucking down another in grog, while the kids have to amuse themselves down at the skate park and the mall all weekend.

We know a family near us - the hubbie is a truck driver, the wife works part time in a law office. They make ok money.

He spends his whole w'end and considerable dollars playing with a rally car, or on fishing trips away with the boys. She is an ebay shopper, and the two kids spend much of their time on Xbox, and all holidays at the Grandparents..

They spend all they earn, they go nowhere and have no investments for their family's future.

Who is more selfish?

As I said; I do all that I should to adhere to the Tenancy laws as they currently stand, and I provide a few more dwellings for rent for those less fortunate that otherwise might not be available..

I know that I am helping others to put a roof over their head; I just don't have to get all fuzzy about it.

 

[Rockstar]

But you would have it that we should all aspire to a greater purpose in our dealings than just making money.

Just merely posing the question - definitely not saying that people should do this. That is their choice.

Why do you have such a problem with others not needing to get the emotional high from it?

Where did I say that?

ok, go ahead and resort to personal attacks; no worries to me.

I sincerely apologise Marc if you felt this way but I had no intention to cause embarrassment or disrespect - and I know it worries you otherwise you wouldn't have reacted in such a way. Therefore I am sorry.

Who are these people you reckon I look down on?

We know a family near us - the hubbie is a truck driver, the wife works part time in a law office. They make ok money.

He spends his whole w'end and considerable dollars playing with a rally car, or on fishing trips away with the boys. She is an ebay shopper, and the two kids spend much of their time on Xbox, and all holidays at the Grandparents..

They spend all they earn, they go nowhere and have no investments for their family's future.

Who is more selfish?

I assumed that you were criticizing this family and were comparing yourself to them in the selfishness department. Again, no judgement on you, but merely recognising that you were comparing yourself with someone of a seemingly lower standard rather than a higher one. Again, sorry that I assumed you were looking down on them. I take it back.

 

[Rockstar]

So I read Rockstar saying "Wow, listen to what I just noticed, anyone else notice the same ?"

he/she wasn;t making a statement of right/wrong

Thanks Jaycee, both posts are pretty close to the mark. BTW, I'm a he.

 

[Belbo]

Thanks Jaycee, both posts are pretty close to the mark. BTW, I'm a he.

But you write with your heart on your sleeve, which gives Jaycee one get out of jail free card.

 

[Rockstar]

Making assumptions can be hurtful even if unintended. This is exacerbated on an internet forum where we are all so faceless and distant. Pussycats turn into tigers. Cowards turn into warriors sitting safely behind their screens. Sometimes I regret some things I write, thinking, is that really me? Or, am I really like that? Maybe I should stick to my duplex diaries where, at least, I am being of some practical service to the SS community.

 

[BayView]

So I read Rockstar saying "Wow, listen to what I just noticed, anyone else notice the same ?"

I read that too, and since he asked for replies and opinions, I said in other words "not necessarily for me".

Then he added the "selfish attitude" comment.....

 

[jaycee]

I read that too, and since he asked for replies and opinions, I said in other words "not necessarily for me".

Then he added the "selfish attitude" comment.....

The selfish commetn wasn;t directy to you though was it ?
IT was diretged ot the thoughts going through Rockstar's head lately that went beyon simply reaching profit targets.

I think that's a good thing to do if someone does choose too - why are you so hell bent on disagreeing ? no one called you anything, just get on with feeling good about yourself, surely yupou can do that, what's Rockstar thinking differently go tot do with you ?

Just stop worrying about it. Chill the hell out man

 

[BayView]

what's Rockstar thinking differently go tot do with you

Um, quick check;

He started the thread, and asked all of us participating forumites (not just the ones who agree with him) to participate in the discussion.

I'll remind you of the opening post in case you forgot:

Why do so many people look at property as simply a vehicle for creating wealth?

Simply a vehicle for creating wealth?

I answered it.

Then this:

The point is - what is the volition behind your IP business? Is it merely a vehicle to put money in your pocket or does it stretch beyond that? I think I know your answer.

This really sounds to me like he has a problem with anyone who does it to make money and not necessarily to have a higher emotional or community spirited purpose.

Then the attack began:

Yes and I am definitely not critical of anyone with this volition. I began in the same way although I probably had some thoughts running around my head trying to intellectualise that I was helping others as well. This has developed into the experience that I really am helping others and is bringing deeper satisfaction. You and Bluey may think this is delusion but you obviously have no intention to believe it may be the case? Again, not being critical, but I believe that the more selfish the attitude - the less contentment one will derive from ones business dealings whether it be providing property for rent or sale, or providing anything else for rent or sale.

You say it wasn't directed at me, but it was directed at anyone who is of the same mindset; thus me as well. It was a backhanded shot, and that's fine.

So, that's what it's got to do with me. You can both put me on ignore anytime you like if you don't like what I have to say.

My final word is this; you both have no idea what I'm like. To look at PI as a business with little emotion does not make anyone heartless.

We recently let a tenant out of his lease early and without having to pay the full month's rent because he was in financial difficulty and had ill health on top of this; do I score some badly needed points for that one?