Legal implications to landlord of offering internet to guests/tenants

[Alex_1]

In another thread I was asking about the technical aspects (routers, hardware etc) of offering a wireless hotspot to your guests/tenants if you own a holiday-let property. Most of the holiday homes listed on sites like Stayz, Takebreak etc. seem to offer free internet to guests.

Technical issues aside, one other concern I have is, what are the legal implications of giving guests internet access?

Maybe I'm being over-cautious, but it feels a bit uncomfortable to give complete strangers unrestricted access to the internet on my account. Let's say they access illegal porn, download/share copyrighted content or commit other serious offences. Obviously the IP address will lead straight back to my account.

If a problem occurred and it were traced back to my account, I guess the burden of proof would be on me to prove that I wasn't using the account at the time.

I can display an 'acceptable internet use' policy somewhere in the property, but of course this doesn't physically prevent them from accessing illegal sites.

Can anyone share any thoughts/experiences on the legal implications for the landlord of offering an internet connection to guests in holiday accommodation (or to tenants in any type of rental situation)?

 

[Ed Barton]

If a problem occurred and it were traced back to my account, I guess the burden of proof would be on me to prove that I wasn't using the account at the time.

as long as you kept accurate records, it surely wouldn't be hard to prove who the user was at the time?

 

[BV]

as long as you kept accurate records, it surely wouldn't be hard to prove who the user was at the time?

How?
As far as I know the router/switch doesn't keep records of where the incoming data went.
So you'll need to be running a server with monitoring software to trace the downloaded content to an internal IP.

 

[livewildcard]

Think they mean if you keep records, bank statements, application form for the rental etc etc be much easier to say "Joe Blogs" was staying there that week. Here is all his details go chase him up.

Most filters, anti virus etc comes with parenting controls etc you can block most sites.

Dont think there is much to worry about at all.

 

[Terryw]

Yes, it sounds risky. What if a 'terrorist' (ie someone with a beard) where to use the internet to look at child porn and to download Hangover II while sending instructions to bomb a place.

You would certainly come to notice of the police and ASIO first and then copyright infringment people later. Once on the police system (intell) you are on there for life whether it is true or not. You could then be targetting by customs (gloves?) evertime you enter and leave the country.

So you have the legal implications as well as the other.

Interestingly in Bangkok airport they have free internet but they require you to get a ticket and write your name and passport number etc because of this. (the only problem is that they do not check what you write).

 

[jaycee]

Yes, it sounds risky. What if a 'terrorist' (ie someone with a beard) where to use the internet to look at child porn and to download Hangover II while sending instructions to bomb a place.

You would certainly come to notice of the police and ASIO first and then copyright infringment people later. Once on the police system (intell) you are on there for life whether it is true or not. You could then be targetting by customs (gloves?) evertime you enter and leave the country.

So you have the legal implications as well as the other.

Interestingly in Bangkok airport they have free internet but they require you to get a ticket and write your name and passport number etc because of this. (the only problem is that they do not check what you write).

And we wonder how some people wonder if investing in property is frought with unknown risks ythat could possibly make it all not worthwhile....

 

[Alex_1]

To reduce the legal risk from guests/tenants misusing the internet connection you provide them, one possibility might be to try to content-filter the internet connection, so sites in various categories (porn, illegal file-sharing, etc) are blocked at the router level.

(In my particular holiday property, the wireless router is not physically accessible to guests. It's in a locked room.)

One way of doing this might be with Open DNS. I'm still looking into it, but they seem to provide a simple router-level content filter where you can block content by category. It's designed for home use to control what kids are accessing, but I can't see why it wouldn't work in an accommodation-provider situation.

 

[jaycee]

To reduce the legal risk from guests/tenants misusing the internet connection you provide them, one possibility might be to try to content-filter the internet connection, so sites in various categories (porn, illegal file-sharing, etc) are blocked at the router level.

(In my particular holiday property, the wireless router is not physically accessible to guests. It's in a locked room.)

One way of doing this might be with Open DNS. I'm still looking into it, but they seem to provide a simple router-level content filter where you can block content by category. It's designed for home use to control what kids are accessing, but I can't see why it wouldn't work in an accommodation-provider situation.

Sounds like a helll of a lot of hassle to me

 

[Ed Barton]

How?
As far as I know the router/switch doesn't keep records of where the incoming data went.
So you'll need to be running a server with monitoring software to trace the downloaded content to an internal IP.

knock knock - alex we notice you'be been downloading kiddy porn and we want to arrest you.

alex - i've been in melbourne (here are all by credit card transactions etc to prove i've only been in melbourne). the ip is on the gold coast, we took a deposit from mr bubbles on 1/5/10 (credit card/payment details provided), he paid in full on 1/8/10 (payment details provided) and stayed in the place from the 2/8/10 to 11/8/10. here are his address details.

cops - thank you. if we have any further questions we will be in contact.

i don't know about the tech details but as long as alex keeps accurate records of who was using the net s/he should be alright.

alex - i think you are worrying about nothing. this is not Tehran.

 

[Aaron_C]

No wonder why the security industry is making so much money - people just worry about the most trivial of things. How about focus on the big picture - and make some good investments?

 

[geoffw]

I have read somewhere that this was a concern to Maccas when they first provided their free wifi. It was just enough of a concern to me, as a single franchisee rather than as an entire big chain, that I decided it was too much hassle to be worth providing to my customers.

 

[CHam]

Yes, it sounds risky. What if a 'terrorist' (ie someone with a beard) where to use the internet to look at child porn and to download Hangover II while sending instructions to bomb a place.

Simple solution - never rent the place to anyone who has a beard and you should be OK.

 

[Alex_1]

Interesting divergence of opinions on this, with some considering the legal risk as a serious problem to deal with:

I think liability (WRT appropriate usage as mentioned earlier) would be the biggest challenge. I recall an article in API about student accommodation that analysed the "providing broadband internet" issue in quite a bit of depth, and the expert(s) they consulted for the article suggested this is a real risk.

I have read somewhere that this was a concern to Maccas when they first provided their free wifi. It was just enough of a concern to me, as a single franchisee rather than as an entire big chain, that I decided it was too much hassle to be worth providing to my customers.

… and others dismissing it as a "you worry too much!" non-issue:

No wonder why the security industry is making so much money - people just worry about the most trivial of things. How about focus on the big picture - and make some good investments?

alex - i think you are worrying about nothing. this is not Tehran.

Typically when you access a public wi-fi hotspot, you're presented with some type of logon/splash screen where you have to accept the owner's (or whoever is providing the hotspot) terms and conditions for internet usage.

I assume that there is a good reason accommodation providers go to the effort of setting up these logon screens, and require guests to agree to these terms & conditions before they can access the net. If they considered the legal risk as trivial, why would they bother with this step?

In my situation, I need to provide broadband access to guests who are complete strangers.

Without being paranoid, I'm just trying to work out what steps and precautions a reasonable property investor would take to provide this net access to guests without creating unnecessary legal risks.

 

[Aaron_C]

I assume that there is a good reason accommodation providers go to the effort of setting up these logon screens, and require guests to agree to these terms & conditions before they can access the net. If they considered the legal risk as trivial, why would they bother with this step?

What exactly are you worried about? That the police are going to arrest you for downloading child pornography when you were a) not there, b) not even aware of it and c) didn't do it?

To be arrested for a serious crime like this you need mens rea - intention. Obviously you are not intending to do any of these things - you are merely providing a service for your guests. If guests choose to do that, then that is their fault. You have not told them to do it and no one would ever think you did. Plus as others have indicated you have records showing who stayed there and when.

I forgot to add this is how lawyers make their money too - scaring people with things that don't matter. Honestly.

 

[Propertunity]

What exactly are you worried about? That the police are going to arrest you for downloading child pornography when you were a) not there, b) not even aware of it and c) didn't do it?

What about of Alex_1 was a) there, b) not even aware of it and c) didn't do it?

How does Alex_1 prove he was was not the one downloading stuff? Hey, what if Alex_1 was the one downloading stuff and hoping to hide it by saying that a guest was going it?

To me it is just not worth the hassle. What did Maccas end up doing?

 

[Aaron_C]

How does Alex_1 prove he was was not the one downloading stuff? Hey, what if Alex_1 was the one downloading stuff and hoping to hide it by saying that a guest was going it?

If you are going to worry about things like this - then don't do it. I offer internet for my tenants and I'm sure they probably download illegal material because they are students. But why do I care? I get good rental from them, they don't complain, and they use it for their homework (sometimes). I don't even think about being busted for child pornography etc because I don't do it.

 

[jaycee]

WTF have we gotten oursleves into with this resi investing LOL !

Aaron do your students ring you insatead of technical support when something goes wrong ?

 

[Terryw]

Yes, it sounds risky. What if a 'terrorist' (ie someone with a beard) where to use the internet to look at child porn and to download Hangover II while sending instructions to bomb a place.

Simple solution - never rent the place to anyone who has a beard and you should be OK.

Don't be silly. We all know how easy it is to shave before renting.

i wouldn't bother with offering the internet to tenants as there are too many issues.

 

[Aaron_C]

WTF have we gotten oursleves into with this resi investing LOL !

Aaron do your students ring you insatead of technical support when something goes wrong ?

lol sometimes jaycee. But usually the internet works fine and students are quite tech-savvy so they can fix most problems themselves.

 

[Alex_1]

i wouldn't bother with offering the internet to tenants as there are too many issues.

I wouldn't bother either in an standard rental situation - tenants can organise it themselves.

However, my particular property is a holiday-let house in an area with poor mobile coverage, so guests expecting to be able to use their own mobile devices with their own data providers would often find they had no reception. I really have no choice but to offer free broadband access (or put up with a lot of angry guests who are suffering internet withdrawal.)

In terms of legal issues, I think a logon screen where guests have to accept the terms and conditions before being able to access the net should be enough. This puts me in the same legal position as standard commercial accommodation providers.

Getting the logon screen up should be easy. Even fairly downmarket routers often have a "guest access" function when you can pop up a login screen for guest users. This also prevents them from accessing other devices on your network.