All those years of xcolling coming back to haunt you Daz.
LOE here we come
- Thread starter Dazz
- Start date
All those years of xcolling coming back to haunt you Daz.
Ausprop - yeah I know. The CGT big bad monster is the only thing holding me back. Trouble is, he's getting bigger every year.
Rixter - no, not at all.....the X-coll mess has, on reflection, been the absolute key to our travels. Would highly recommend what we have done and the loan tangle we are currently in.
In my unlearned and untested opinion, being bigger and tangled up is far preferable to having everything completely squared away and in nice little discrete silos, but being significantly smaller.....than otherwise we would have been.
I am convinced the "security big pot" and the "loan big pot" approach was well worth it.
Rixter - no, not at all.....the X-coll mess has, on reflection, been the absolute key to our travels. Would highly recommend what we have done and the loan tangle we are currently in.
In my unlearned and untested opinion, being bigger and tangled up is far preferable to having everything completely squared away and in nice little discrete silos, but being significantly smaller.....than otherwise we would have been.
I am convinced the "security big pot" and the "loan big pot" approach was well worth it.
Yes, you have done extremely well however you look at it.
Do you not have enough equity to free up a property or two or three and finance off those? Do you need to untangle all knots to get what you are after. Going through a similar experience myself right now and really not clear why it should take until end of year..
I am not planning to LOE but have $500K plus sitting there just in case.........Thanks for the update! I think everyones waiting in anticipation for the right result, none more than yourself.
I'm not sure I understand why it should take all that long either? Are you going to get a second opinion?
That was my intial reaction as well, but the more I think about it - it wouldn't surprise me if the bank(s) drag their heels with this sort of thing. There's no real benefit or incentive for them to a) do it at all, and b) if they do come around - to do it fast.
You need to apply in writing, then they'll respond (probably automatically deny the request), then you'll need to give follow up info, then they will hopefully agree to proceed, then the paper work starts, and you finally get out. Throw Daz's bigger numbers into the equation which will really make the bank nervous, and all that back and forth would probably take a few months.
This is the key.....I'm fully expecting them to reject my "shuffling".
Any time you try and pull a title deed out of the "security pot"....they go nuts. The automatic reaction from them is 'definitely no way, legal would never agree'.
Got this reaction twice last year....but after much gnashing of teeth and threatening behaviour, managed to extract two out of the pot.
Now I'm going back for the lot....and quite happy to burn every bridge I've ever built with the Bank in the process.
Getting down and dirty in the gutter with Bank solicitors....my fave past-time. Here we go again. No change really from doing property deals.
The five "c's" of banking ....
All you budding movers and shakers out there may like to google on 'the five c's of banking' and do some reading and "pondering" if you seek to gain the key to LOE land. Note which "c" comes first. Put yourself on the "other side of the table".
LL
All you budding movers and shakers out there may like to google on 'the five c's of banking' and do some reading and "pondering" if you seek to gain the key to LOE land. Note which "c" comes first. Put yourself on the "other side of the table".
LL
Dazzling,
You obviously have substantial loans with the bank(s). Wouldn't you be better off dealing with a shiny bum within the bank higher up the ladder in town rather than an MB or a useless loans officer at a branch?
I'm sure you'll get some action there. I have un X colled loans no worries in the past with no worries from the bank.
Why would you x coll with an MB? And isn't it up to you when you LOE, not them.
Isn't it just a another ho hum commercial transaction to the bank. Is it really as dramatic as you make it sound?
You obviously have substantial loans with the bank(s). Wouldn't you be better off dealing with a shiny bum within the bank higher up the ladder in town rather than an MB or a useless loans officer at a branch?
I'm sure you'll get some action there. I have un X colled loans no worries in the past with no worries from the bank.
Why would you x coll with an MB? And isn't it up to you when you LOE, not them.
Isn't it just a another ho hum commercial transaction to the bank. Is it really as dramatic as you make it sound?
Well I'm just not sure about that evand.
Your suggestion of dealing with a "shiny bum" high up in the Bank is exactly what I have been doing for the last 14 years with them. Trouble is, the excellent Banker who I transacted all of our business with got promoted elsewhere.
The clown who replaced him, has been nothing but a brick wall for normal dealings. I didn't even want to bring up the LOE question, cos I knew he'd laugh. Anyway, against my better judgement, I've already done as you've suggested and approached him.....and as expected, he just laughed and said "you've got to be kidding me, of course not." I took that as a no.
I'm sure you've been down this path many times before and I'm sure you're a full bottle on the process....although some of your questions and statements in that last post are a tad askew, given my understanding of the process thus far, so maybe you're not quite flanged up on the subject like you imply.
Apologises if my post came across as dramatic. I'm simply trying to work through a process that I have not done before and am very unclear on. If you have some specific, recent and relevant information on the processes involved that you can share it would be appreciated, not only by myself but also anyone else reading this thread. I wish it was ho-hum. I wouldn't have posted on the subject if I knew all the ins-and-outs and it was simple.
I look forward to any detailed input you could provide.
Your suggestion of dealing with a "shiny bum" high up in the Bank is exactly what I have been doing for the last 14 years with them. Trouble is, the excellent Banker who I transacted all of our business with got promoted elsewhere.
The clown who replaced him, has been nothing but a brick wall for normal dealings. I didn't even want to bring up the LOE question, cos I knew he'd laugh. Anyway, against my better judgement, I've already done as you've suggested and approached him.....and as expected, he just laughed and said "you've got to be kidding me, of course not." I took that as a no.
I'm sure you've been down this path many times before and I'm sure you're a full bottle on the process....although some of your questions and statements in that last post are a tad askew, given my understanding of the process thus far, so maybe you're not quite flanged up on the subject like you imply.
Apologises if my post came across as dramatic. I'm simply trying to work through a process that I have not done before and am very unclear on. If you have some specific, recent and relevant information on the processes involved that you can share it would be appreciated, not only by myself but also anyone else reading this thread. I wish it was ho-hum. I wouldn't have posted on the subject if I knew all the ins-and-outs and it was simple.
I look forward to any detailed input you could provide.
Fair enough and a good reply. I just thought with your level of banking you'd move right through this stuff.
Even at my lower of banking level i'd say to the new high level guy
'Look mate, stop being a knob, if you cant help me can i speak to someone who can' Kerry Packer style LOL
Not that exact wording but i'm sure you get my drift...just push on through mate, with whatever it takes. We're not there to be popular, hey.
Is it a personal thing with him or is it bank policy? Either one can be dealt with.
I have always disliked the subservient position that most people take for granted when dealing with big business and government and i have always tried not to be part of it.
(not you personally, from reading your posts i don't think you fall into this category)
I think its one of the main reasons people find it hard to rise in society financially and personally.
Things like its automatically accepted in job interviews that the employers have the upper hand and have the right to offer you the job only if you meet their exacting standards.
Bugger that, i always had the idea that i was there to see if they were right for me. Or at least lets be on an even keel. (maybe thats why i've been self employed for so long HAHA)
Its the same with banks. Its accepted as normal that people come grovelling to banks to make major financial decisions for them that will have major impact on their their lives.
95% of society unnecessarily need to change their undies when they get a threatening letter from government, big business or a legal firm. Its like a conspiracy to keep the divide between the proletariat and the big end of town.
Plenty more examples but i'm sure you get my drift here. I have always been anti authority and a bit of a rebel.
And paid a bit of a price for it i suppose, but i wouldn't have it any other way. I like calling the shots in my life.
And, no, i havn't been down this path many times before (i've un x colled once and it was painless so cant offer specific advice in that area) but had many dealings with idiot banks, government departments and businesses and i just don't stand for their crap. I always find a way through or i take my business elsewhere. (as painful as that might be, its always worked out better in the long run) or i call my solicitor. HAHA!!
Mate, a lot of times i've wondered how many of them got to the position they were in. Must have had a bit of a leg up is all i can think of.
Even at my lower of banking level i'd say to the new high level guy
'Look mate, stop being a knob, if you cant help me can i speak to someone who can' Kerry Packer style LOL
Not that exact wording but i'm sure you get my drift...just push on through mate, with whatever it takes. We're not there to be popular, hey.
Is it a personal thing with him or is it bank policy? Either one can be dealt with.
I have always disliked the subservient position that most people take for granted when dealing with big business and government and i have always tried not to be part of it.
(not you personally, from reading your posts i don't think you fall into this category)
I think its one of the main reasons people find it hard to rise in society financially and personally.
Things like its automatically accepted in job interviews that the employers have the upper hand and have the right to offer you the job only if you meet their exacting standards.
Bugger that, i always had the idea that i was there to see if they were right for me. Or at least lets be on an even keel. (maybe thats why i've been self employed for so long HAHA)
Its the same with banks. Its accepted as normal that people come grovelling to banks to make major financial decisions for them that will have major impact on their their lives.
95% of society unnecessarily need to change their undies when they get a threatening letter from government, big business or a legal firm. Its like a conspiracy to keep the divide between the proletariat and the big end of town.
Plenty more examples but i'm sure you get my drift here. I have always been anti authority and a bit of a rebel.
And paid a bit of a price for it i suppose, but i wouldn't have it any other way. I like calling the shots in my life.
And, no, i havn't been down this path many times before (i've un x colled once and it was painless so cant offer specific advice in that area) but had many dealings with idiot banks, government departments and businesses and i just don't stand for their crap. I always find a way through or i take my business elsewhere. (as painful as that might be, its always worked out better in the long run) or i call my solicitor. HAHA!!
Mate, a lot of times i've wondered how many of them got to the position they were in. Must have had a bit of a leg up is all i can think of.
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Cheers evand, you and I seem to approach life with the same attitude. It's fun sometimes isn't it !!
We have experience uncrossing titles, and after the initial clashing of wills, the Banks were relatively accomodating during the process. It took 3-1/2 months to unthread 2 titles from the knotted mess. A few signatures, a few more knots to tightly bind the others together, and all was well.
Unknotting the more tightly bound ones left in the mess, is proving difficult. The equity and servicability is there (especially if I don't tell them I'm giving up my job) so it's just a matter of patience and time I reckon.
It's a bit like untangling a fishing net when it's tightly knotted up. Just need to get out a really fine needle, pull up a chair, take a deep breathe and commence.
So, we're on that track now.....it's just the 6 or 7 months wait now until we can clearly see the results. No doubt, I'll have to get nasty again before they assist further. The biggest cost implication along the way is getting the securities valued again.....not something I'm looking forward to, but can't be helped.
We have experience uncrossing titles, and after the initial clashing of wills, the Banks were relatively accomodating during the process. It took 3-1/2 months to unthread 2 titles from the knotted mess. A few signatures, a few more knots to tightly bind the others together, and all was well.
Unknotting the more tightly bound ones left in the mess, is proving difficult. The equity and servicability is there (especially if I don't tell them I'm giving up my job) so it's just a matter of patience and time I reckon.
It's a bit like untangling a fishing net when it's tightly knotted up. Just need to get out a really fine needle, pull up a chair, take a deep breathe and commence.
So, we're on that track now.....it's just the 6 or 7 months wait now until we can clearly see the results. No doubt, I'll have to get nasty again before they assist further. The biggest cost implication along the way is getting the securities valued again.....not something I'm looking forward to, but can't be helped.
I uncrossed a few years ago as i always promised my wife i would get the PPOR out of there. Just took me quite a while to get around to it.
She freaked years ago when i wanted to add our unencumbered home as security to IP loans.
The bank was fine with it but it started the usual paper war and valuations of just about bloody everything i owned.
They also reduced the LOC amount which was way too large anyway.
But no worries, it kept her happy. My next step is to get it out of our joint names and into her name solely. That one might have to wait until we sell it, i dont want to fork out the stamp duty.
She'll be even happier when thats done. She worries about some of my shenanigans...LOL
Good luck with it all....sounds like yours is infinitely more complex than mine was.
She freaked years ago when i wanted to add our unencumbered home as security to IP loans.
The bank was fine with it but it started the usual paper war and valuations of just about bloody everything i owned.
They also reduced the LOC amount which was way too large anyway.
But no worries, it kept her happy. My next step is to get it out of our joint names and into her name solely. That one might have to wait until we sell it, i dont want to fork out the stamp duty.
She'll be even happier when thats done. She worries about some of my shenanigans...LOL
Good luck with it all....sounds like yours is infinitely more complex than mine was.
Most impressive Dazzling - Congratulations.
I'm not in your league of investment success, but could comfortably quit work for a decade or two and live off equity if I had to.
1. I don't learn much off property books anymore, but I'm sure I'd learn off yours. 1 guaranteed customer here!
2. Why does the bank need to know you intend to live off equity? I run at about 50% LVRs and my LOCs are always "for investment purposes". They have never questioned or asked to look at these investments, even when I capitalise interest. After all your life is your greatest investment and we all know the banks have very safe and substantial security backing any LOC you ask for, regardless of purpose. I have assets secured across 3 banks, I'm always honest on my "47 questions" and this seems to have a positive effect of them trying harder to please me. (They know I could borrow at one of the others at the drop of a hat).
3. Because my LVRs are so comfortable, the last loan I got for a property I told them that they have more than enough of my security and I didn't want a mortgage on this property. No worries they said. So I now have a spare title to go and see another bank with. Like an earlier post stated - banks should be absolutely bending over backwards for you just for the privilege of holding a mortgage over your assets and it really isn't up to them what you intend to do with the money. Can't believe your CBA guy even contemplated saying no!
Congrats again - it takes some courage to leave what you know and actually enjoy the fruits of your labour. Many never make the decision until its too late.
Mark
I'm not in your league of investment success, but could comfortably quit work for a decade or two and live off equity if I had to.
1. I don't learn much off property books anymore, but I'm sure I'd learn off yours. 1 guaranteed customer here!
2. Why does the bank need to know you intend to live off equity? I run at about 50% LVRs and my LOCs are always "for investment purposes". They have never questioned or asked to look at these investments, even when I capitalise interest. After all your life is your greatest investment and we all know the banks have very safe and substantial security backing any LOC you ask for, regardless of purpose. I have assets secured across 3 banks, I'm always honest on my "47 questions" and this seems to have a positive effect of them trying harder to please me. (They know I could borrow at one of the others at the drop of a hat).
3. Because my LVRs are so comfortable, the last loan I got for a property I told them that they have more than enough of my security and I didn't want a mortgage on this property. No worries they said. So I now have a spare title to go and see another bank with. Like an earlier post stated - banks should be absolutely bending over backwards for you just for the privilege of holding a mortgage over your assets and it really isn't up to them what you intend to do with the money. Can't believe your CBA guy even contemplated saying no!
Congrats again - it takes some courage to leave what you know and actually enjoy the fruits of your labour. Many never make the decision until its too late.
Mark
we were starting the process of unravelling and simplifying our loans last week - when my broker called the bank to ask about a rate reduction in the process.
well, turns out the bank has us with a rather large loan secured against a property we sold 4 years ago (i thought it was secured against our ppor) - and - the loan is for around 3 times what that property would even be worth.
we'll just think on what we want to do about that one as don't really want the bank sniffing to close to our activities right now.
well, turns out the bank has us with a rather large loan secured against a property we sold 4 years ago (i thought it was secured against our ppor) - and - the loan is for around 3 times what that property would even be worth.
we'll just think on what we want to do about that one as don't really want the bank sniffing to close to our activities right now.
Could the major stumbling block be the $ size of your portfolio rather than the LVR ratios.
What about looking at some form of happy medium. Personally if i was in your situation i would be looking at creating a diversified income stream rather than just SOLEY LOE option. Afterall at your stage of net wealth, your goal should be more asset & income preservation rather than profit maximisation.
For example you could allocate a portion of your property portfolio to a LOE strategy, dont tell the bank that you are doing this and just set up the facility.
Then allocate another portion of your property portfolio to being a living off the rent, dispose of some of the properties cop the CGT and get the debt situation right down on this section of the property portfolio (and transfer the assets into a seperate trust, again incuring CGT
). This will also give you some flexibility in the future. For example you have calculated that you need 0.25% asset appreciation to be comfortable living off equity. Under this strategy you could go for say 2% asset appreciation for LOE purposes on the LOE portion of the portfolio, and use the rental component of the portfolio under the trust to create a cash buffer. (there are tax consequences of this).
The problem is the $ value of the portfolio involved rather than the LVR ratio's. For us smaller players
the bank have more flexibility because we fly under their radars.For the ultimate example look at Centro properties and BND. To my knowledge they havent even defaulted on any loans. But because of the credit crisis they are getting hammered because of REFINANCING, rather than because of defaults.
Yeah Dazz, don't you know how to set your own goals yet?
Maybe Dazz's mindset, knowledge & experience levels explain why he is in a totally different league.
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