Man Hours for Certain Jobs?
- Thread starter JWR
- Start date
With my PPOR my future wife will have the final sayso will prob have to spend a few million on renovations to make her happy.
Who knows. She may have a mature head on her shoulders than to ask for a few million reno to make her happy
And what makes you think that's what you will need to do to keep a family happy?
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$ 66/hr for any trade is the bare minimum ive heard of ,,,Ive heard of a few working for less than that but they are dead now as they were not eating obviously
petrol station attendant / meter reader / trolley collector would all be in the 25-30 bucks an hour mark these days
insurance fees
licensing fees
fuel
higher rego ($1,100/year for a 4 cylinder twin cab ute)
tools and upkeep of them
hours spent doing quotes
study needs (rules and regulations change)
these things and more add up to overheads
not even counting the lack of sick days or the lack of paid super and the lack of paid time off or holidays
........
you can hire someone for 40 an hour and the job might take 10 hrs with their skill level and the tools they have or use = $400
you can hire a $66 an hour person tooled up well and with great skill level and the hypothetical job will probably be done in half the time (5 hrs) with a better job being done for that $330 and the funny part is that the one charging more just might still be around if the s@it ever hits the fan
........
typical example is my local lawn blokes
one works out of an old HQ holden and i hear him trying to start a worn and torn wiper sniper every time he is over the road sometimes it takes a minute to get going ,sometimes maybee 3 , and then the same with the mower
,,,then 45 mins later he is gone if he isnt trying to push the clippings into the clients bin still
but when the other one comes to do the property 2 doors further down in his newer well set up ute and trailer things start first pop and the clippings and rubbish are in the big bag on his trailer and he is gone in 20 minutes "tops" for a larger job
---------------
I charge $66 an hour as a builders licensed handyman and I charge that rate for 80% of my work
I wont even touch the lawn mower / wiper sniper or blower for less than $55/hr
If you asked me to work for $33 hr I would smile (so you dont know what im thinking) and decline without batting an eyelid
the local sparky's ("a" class) charge $95 labour for the first half hour and 60 per 30 mins after that
pay peanuts, you get monkeys ( if your lucky!!!)
best of luck with the build
cheers eden
petrol station attendant / meter reader / trolley collector would all be in the 25-30 bucks an hour mark these days
insurance fees
licensing fees
fuel
higher rego ($1,100/year for a 4 cylinder twin cab ute)
tools and upkeep of them
hours spent doing quotes
study needs (rules and regulations change)
these things and more add up to overheads
not even counting the lack of sick days or the lack of paid super and the lack of paid time off or holidays
........
you can hire someone for 40 an hour and the job might take 10 hrs with their skill level and the tools they have or use = $400
you can hire a $66 an hour person tooled up well and with great skill level and the hypothetical job will probably be done in half the time (5 hrs) with a better job being done for that $330 and the funny part is that the one charging more just might still be around if the s@it ever hits the fan
........
typical example is my local lawn blokes
one works out of an old HQ holden and i hear him trying to start a worn and torn wiper sniper every time he is over the road sometimes it takes a minute to get going ,sometimes maybee 3 , and then the same with the mower
,,,then 45 mins later he is gone if he isnt trying to push the clippings into the clients bin still
but when the other one comes to do the property 2 doors further down in his newer well set up ute and trailer things start first pop and the clippings and rubbish are in the big bag on his trailer and he is gone in 20 minutes "tops" for a larger job
---------------
I charge $66 an hour as a builders licensed handyman and I charge that rate for 80% of my work
I wont even touch the lawn mower / wiper sniper or blower for less than $55/hr
If you asked me to work for $33 hr I would smile (so you dont know what im thinking) and decline without batting an eyelid
the local sparky's ("a" class) charge $95 labour for the first half hour and 60 per 30 mins after that
pay peanuts, you get monkeys ( if your lucky!!!)
best of luck with the build
cheers eden
MsAli,
I don't think money will matter then... so she can have whatever she wants.
Sure we will be happy with or without lots of money - but a gold plated pool sounds like a good idea
edlev and others,
What is the Award for these types of tradies? Surely nowhere near $66/h. I understand some/most will charge these types of fees but surely there are others on the Award where you can either negotiate p/h fee or fixed fee per job?
I know the quality/efficiency may not be there but I will know pretty quickly (with help from grandfather etc...) whether the work is up to scratch.
Maybe I just need to find a few tradesman with low self esteem who don't value their time as highly as others
I don't think money will matter then... so she can have whatever she wants.
Sure we will be happy with or without lots of money - but a gold plated pool sounds like a good idea
edlev and others,
What is the Award for these types of tradies? Surely nowhere near $66/h. I understand some/most will charge these types of fees but surely there are others on the Award where you can either negotiate p/h fee or fixed fee per job?
I know the quality/efficiency may not be there but I will know pretty quickly (with help from grandfather etc...) whether the work is up to scratch.
Maybe I just need to find a few tradesman with low self esteem who don't value their time as highly as others
66 per hour is overpriced for handyman man work or any installations for a kitchen. It would be something for a plumber. Other that than it is not industry standard. Ppl who charge these rates either are in a commercial arrangement but it is def not across the board.
Living costs are highest in melb and Sydney and my handyman chippie who is a registered builder only charges 45 per hour.
Living costs are highest in melb and Sydney and my handyman chippie who is a registered builder only charges 45 per hour.
Ok, Im going to let you in on a secret to finding the people you are looking for. Ok, come close, because I need to whisper and I dont want anyone else to hear. OK, you ready?:
Ok, first up, you go into the the closet, as there is a magical portal in there. Jump through and you will find you are on a yellow brick road. Waiting for you will be a trusty unicorn as your steed for the journey. Follow the yellow brick road until you pass the beach with topless mermaids, head inland, past Hogwarts (watch out for the dragon), until you get to a crossroads. From hear head left into wonderland, but dont be tempted by Alice, as she is the really the wicked witch of the west. Over a bridge (dont feed the trolls {tic
}, and to the right you will see a huge rainbow. At the closes end is the pot of gold - leave that and head for the other side. You will have to battle a large army of leprechorns and grim reapers riding their Centaurs! Should you get this far, there should be a plethora of tradies with low labour rates, platinum finish quality and only 1 day lead times and finish the job without sleeping or leaving you premises until the job is complete! Ok, Im off. Think I might push my bellybutton today to turn invisible and find a nice womens change room at the pool to check out!
pinkboy
There is a shortage of tradesmen as more and more young epopel dont want to go into apprenticeships, they want to go to uni, and work in IT, finance or other professional industries.
Trades work isnt as highly regarded these days. Which is really a good thing as this shortage has increased the rates tradies can charge as demand rises and supply lessens. And its only going to get better (or worse, depending which side of the fence you're on.
While im typing, as for previous posts about supplying their tools. What i meant by specific tools is that for eg, sparkies generally only use one brand of pliers with a 2nd brand a maybe ok back up.
The brand they all use is Crescent 8 inch pliers from the States.
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=C...p=45&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:73&biw=1680&bih=925
With Wattmaster 8" not bad as a 2nd choice. And very specific brand and type of screw drivers, cordless drills & bits etc.
This probably applies to all trades (im not sure as i am a sparkie), so if you're supplying tools, if they're not the right ones, they just wont be used. Period. You'll be laughed at.
Mate, i think you're seriously deluded and in for some pain (financial and otherwise) if you go ahead with this the way you're thinking)
Trades work isnt as highly regarded these days. Which is really a good thing as this shortage has increased the rates tradies can charge as demand rises and supply lessens. And its only going to get better (or worse, depending which side of the fence you're on.
While im typing, as for previous posts about supplying their tools. What i meant by specific tools is that for eg, sparkies generally only use one brand of pliers with a 2nd brand a maybe ok back up.
The brand they all use is Crescent 8 inch pliers from the States.
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=C...p=45&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:73&biw=1680&bih=925
With Wattmaster 8" not bad as a 2nd choice. And very specific brand and type of screw drivers, cordless drills & bits etc.
This probably applies to all trades (im not sure as i am a sparkie), so if you're supplying tools, if they're not the right ones, they just wont be used. Period. You'll be laughed at.
Mate, i think you're seriously deluded and in for some pain (financial and otherwise) if you go ahead with this the way you're thinking)
I thought it was the other way around, most young people are seeing their mates at uni studying their butt off for years and then getting a $40k grad job only to be over worked and laid off while, their other friends who did an apprenticeship for 3 years now have brand new shiny utes, get a $90 callout fee for everything, get paid $50+ per hour, earn their $50-$100k, work whenver they want to, not turn up when they cant be bothered, and spending 4pm onwards at the pub
I detect a touch of envy there. It is a great life for a young guy. Driving around, doing what you like, playing golf, going fishing, etc making great money. I could never understand why people work in offices all their career. We used to call them shiny-bums
But the problem is most people go to year 12 these days, while in my day if you wanted to become a tradie (as i did) you left school in year 10. I dont think many kids leave in year 10 any more. Its year 12, off to uni then shiny-bum-ville for ever. Moving on...........
1stly, a just out of their time apprentice will not go out on his own and become self employed. Some do become self employed after a few years out but even thats rare, you need quite a bit of experience. Usually 5-10 years after they finish their time.
2ndly, its 4 years.
3rdly, its pub time at 3pm, not 4.
But the problem is most people go to year 12 these days, while in my day if you wanted to become a tradie (as i did) you left school in year 10. I dont think many kids leave in year 10 any more. Its year 12, off to uni then shiny-bum-ville for ever. Moving on...........
1stly, a just out of their time apprentice will not go out on his own and become self employed. Some do become self employed after a few years out but even thats rare, you need quite a bit of experience. Usually 5-10 years after they finish their time.
2ndly, its 4 years.
3rdly, its pub time at 3pm, not 4.
i think it is the other way around. only in australia - they are deemed like "5 star" profession. in other parts of the world - being a trade are mainly for people who did not do well at school. Being in the corporate world is very different as opposed to being on a building job site.
log a job on service central and seeking central for chippies and handyman and you will quickly find out how many of them are desperate for work.
not sure what is so great being a plumber and dealing literally with **** everyday or climbing through a roof to do cabling etc. One of my chippies has got basically back problems at 29 years old after going hard everyday and now can't work - so how is he going to supplement his lost income? that is what you gain just going at it.
unless the trade has a business mindset which he would have learned from getting some schooling like my electrician who finished year 12 and did some tafe courses. recently he has just scored a 300 homes contract. as for ppl who stay in offices - yeah you may be right but the biggest apartment developer in melbourne of more than 70 towers was originally 3 guys - an accountant, a schoolteacher and a banker.
in my opinion being a trade ain't a glamarous job and it has many risks as it depends on a projects or jobs coming in. work smart not work hard.
log a job on service central and seeking central for chippies and handyman and you will quickly find out how many of them are desperate for work.
not sure what is so great being a plumber and dealing literally with **** everyday or climbing through a roof to do cabling etc. One of my chippies has got basically back problems at 29 years old after going hard everyday and now can't work - so how is he going to supplement his lost income? that is what you gain just going at it.
unless the trade has a business mindset which he would have learned from getting some schooling like my electrician who finished year 12 and did some tafe courses. recently he has just scored a 300 homes contract. as for ppl who stay in offices - yeah you may be right but the biggest apartment developer in melbourne of more than 70 towers was originally 3 guys - an accountant, a schoolteacher and a banker.
in my opinion being a trade ain't a glamarous job and it has many risks as it depends on a projects or jobs coming in. work smart not work hard.
Yeah, you're right, being a tradesman isn't a glamorous job, but we don't need to defend ourselves like you do.
Your whole post is white collar vs. blue collar and it seems to me like you wish you were wearing a different shirt.
Isn't Spain like Greece
.Painter - probably unlicenced, no ABN, cash payment, and some brushes and rollers in the back of the wagon/ute.
Much of a tradies charge HERE goes towards business related expenses.
Why would they do a a skilled job at minimum wage or less, when they can just WORK LESS, or go to the beach, or collect some welfare/dole.
What you're more likely to get is, some tradies closing shop, but the rest keeping their charges up.
That's my experience, having been through a recession.
This is the same in my area (northeast NSW). My chippy is a registered builder and only charges $45/hr though mostly gives me quotes which I happily grant.
My sparkie charges $60/hr, plumber $66.
Working as a landscaper, I charged $55/hr but have virtually given that up now since I can almost double that with development projects.
Probably a marked variation from city to regional. Even within a city there may be fluctuations depending on the area.
just stating my opinion and facts.
Can't see why i would need to defend myself - it seems the other way around. i'm not going around telling i won't work for X dollars and only for X dollars and that is the standard. and telling sad stories about tools, insurance etc vs working in mcdonalds or woolworths
there are ppl here who make anything btw 100-500K a year whether it be a white or blue collar job so what is there to defend. if you can - you can if you can't, try something else. and if you made $100-$200 per hour good on you but as far as i know those are not the standard rates for trades.
besides in melbourne - a whole shipload of greeks just arrived to work from concreters to handyman. simple macroeconomics of supply demand, when supply exceeds demand - prices rates fall.
exactly right. those are rates i pay give or take 5% variance.
MsAli,
I don't think money will matter then... so she can have whatever she wants.
Sure we will be happy with or without lots of money - but a gold plated pool sounds like a good idea
edlev and others,
What is the Award for these types of tradies? Surely nowhere near $66/h. I understand some/most will charge these types of fees but surely there are others on the Award where you can either negotiate p/h fee or fixed fee per job?
I know the quality/efficiency may not be there but I will know pretty quickly (with help from grandfather etc...) whether the work is up to scratch.
Maybe I just need to find a few tradesman with low self esteem who don't value their time as highly as others
*BANGS HEAD* Why would you think awards are relevant?
My work charges me out at ~$1000 per day. Do you think I get paid that? No, but I have a whole company behind me, with IT infrastructure, admin, etc, etc,. The boss told me a while ago, that you need to charge out people for at least 4x their wages to make it worth while. So even if an apprentice is being paid $15-$20, then being charged out at $35-$50 is probably about right, IMO. They still need supervision, etc.
No there are a lot of highly skilled tradesmen with their own businesses in Spain just very very short of work after the construction industry collapse. I paid by debit into their bank account, no cash, though that happens a lot there of course (Australia too). So you get quality work done much cheaper than 4 years ago.Isn't Spain like Greece
Painter - probably unlicenced, no ABN, cash payment, and some brushes and rollers in the back of the wagon/ute.
Much of a tradies charge HERE goes towards business related expenses.
p.s. Spain is not like Greece, different problems altogether. Housing crash. caused by easy credit.
Tens of thousands of foreigners (many Brits) not paying their Spanish mortgages & buggering off back to the UK also doesn't help.
I didn't say anything about being skilled.
The point I was making, and it applies everywhere, is if you have no outgoings or tax to pay, you can get away with charging less and still make OK money.
Painters are often in that boat (so are Greek, Greeks and I guessed Spaniards). Others trades, not so.
People here are saying such and such tradie charges such and such amount, like they're a PAYG employee. $66 ph is not $66 as in PAYG.
We are definately not at a stage here where self employed, or qualified PAYE tradies, are accepting the NET equivalent to a minimum wage worker, and they certainly wouldn't do charity work (which $20 to $30 would be).
Like I said, there's the dole, the beach or work less (or there's always the mines).
Edit: oops... I did say something about being skilled. I said they were.
The point I was making, and it applies everywhere, is if you have no outgoings or tax to pay, you can get away with charging less and still make OK money.
Painters are often in that boat (so are Greek, Greeks and I guessed Spaniards). Others trades, not so.
People here are saying such and such tradie charges such and such amount, like they're a PAYG employee. $66 ph is not $66 as in PAYG.
We are definately not at a stage here where self employed, or qualified PAYE tradies, are accepting the NET equivalent to a minimum wage worker, and they certainly wouldn't do charity work (which $20 to $30 would be).
Like I said, there's the dole, the beach or work less (or there's always the mines).
Edit: oops... I did say something about being skilled. I said they were
.
