Mentor wanted

[weg]

I doubt you will find much value in a "course", a few books may be worth buying though, of which there are plenty lists posted around here.

Agree, because those 'courses' or education sessions/seminars are often a front for getting unaware investors to commit to investments designed specifically to profit the educator (salesperson) - whilst the investor is given the impression the investment is the best one for them.

Wealth education group CWB who profit mainly from the sale of the company's own property developments, is a good example.

If profit through their own investments/developments weren't what the 'courses' were designed for, they'd be telling people how to invest without directing them to their investments.

 

[Aaron_C]

But the type of people who go to these courses are those who want direction and to be told what to invest in. So the companies are happy to oblige.

 

[abbyfresh]

Th only reason I asked is because if someone said "hey, there is a great mentor..... but you have to fly to Perth (or wherever) every month for a face to face meeting etc" - would you still be in, or is this "over-committed"? Just trying to figure out what your definition of commitment is....

The Y-man

With skype there is no need to fly anywhere unless you really have to.

 

[The Y-man]

With skype there is no need to fly anywhere unless you really have to.

I was going to suggest to Colleen to attend our monthly Melbourne (where else? )Somersoft meetings -a monthly return flight from Sydney and public transport to our meetings would be quite cheap compared to what some courses charge.

And if it's really cashflow positive - to seek the Kaftan wearing Guru of the West (not sure if he believes in Skype )



The Y-man

 

[MIW]

Seminars still motivate me!

Agree, because those 'courses' or education sessions/seminars are often a front for getting unaware investors to commit to investments designed specifically to profit the educator (salesperson) - whilst the investor is given the impression the investment is the best one for them..

We all have free will and choice so I am never pressured to sign anything from seminars I attend. For me it's the energy or the motivation that I may need or positive information on statistics, demographics, etc.... So the unaware investors all have the same choice and should learn and make sure whether it's a right investment for them.

Wealth education group CWB who profit mainly from the sale of the company's own property developments, is a good example.

If profit through their own investments/developments weren't what the 'courses' were designed for, they'd be telling people how to invest without directing them to their investments.

Perhaps true but I don't think any company would be in business too long if they were so dishonest and praying on people. CWB has over 3000+ clients so they could all launch a class action if they thought they were all cheated. You see any investment is an individual choice and it depends if you wish to become a passive or an active investor. If you can do it ALL on your own you're an active investor but others who don't know how to start may perhaps use such companies to show them the way, at least they learn and start somehow.
I think most very successful people have built a team around them instead of doing all by themselves.....
I also suppose that if you are in business and it's property of course you would be biased and you profit from it as that's what you do. Like motivational speakers have seminars and then sell their books and materials, it's not different. The question should be then is that the investment for me and do I wish to associated myself with this company and its mentors OR If I can learn someting and take at least one thing and apply to my life that will change my life for the better, then it's all worth it for me.

 

[lizzie]

I think a good part of the problem of people seeking courses and sparkly razza matazz, is that we have been fed this expectation of investing being exciting - getting a buzz - a high - the adrenaline pumping - so we seek out avenues that are not good investments looking for that "yea hah" moment.

How do I know? Because I was one of them, and it cost me dearly.

In reality, for 99% of us, smart investing is really rather boring. Set your goal, research to know what a good deal looks like, crunching numbers, get inspections done, buy, then hand it over to your PM. Next.

If I had stuck to this path then hubby and I would be retired and living the good life in business class.

The Nathan's and Dazz's are the exceptions ...

 

[MIW]

I think a good part of the problem of people seeking courses and sparkly razza matazz, is that we have been fed this expectation of investing being exciting - getting a buzz - a high - the adrenaline pumping - so we seek out avenues that are not good investments looking for that "yea hah" moment.

How do I know? Because I was one of them, and it cost me dearly.

In reality, for 99% of us, smart investing is really rather boring. Set your goal, research to know what a good deal looks like, crunching numbers, get inspections done, buy, then hand it over to your PM. Next.

If I had stuck to this path then hubby and I would be retired and living the good life in business class.

The Nathan's and Dazz's are the exceptions ...

I agree but the thread is on mentorship so how do you stay motivated? For me it's a combination of things as I mentioned before.
I agree that property investment is slow, boring, and doing it over an over again over time, as simple as that, but many people just are not disciplined enough to keep going because they think is quick way to make fortunes....
Well we all learn in the end and I am sure your experience did just that for you and hubby. I look at past mistakes as lessons learned and it helped me to figure out what works for me. Noone is perfect and we all learn....

 

[weg]

I also suppose that if you are in business and it's property of course you would be biased and you profit from it as that's what you do. Like motivational speakers have seminars and then sell their books and materials, it's not different. The question should be then is that the investment for me and do I wish to associated myself with this company and its mentors OR If I can learn someting and take at least one thing and apply to my life that will change my life for the better, then it's all worth it for me.

But don't you think selling some books is a little different to selling property worth 100's of 1000's that may be a poor investment for the investor, but a great one for the spruiker?

Even if having this type of conflict of interest in property is legal, do you think it's completely ethical selling to newbies under this guise?

Btw, you don't work for CWB do you .

As PB said learn from some books, and then join a forum or group for motivation.

 

[colleen_04]

OK - I'm really enjoying this thread!!

Interestingly, the more I hear people's opinions the more confident (slowly) I am that I probably have done 'enough' research to get the ball rolling..

Of course, I think that we can all keep looking for a better deal, keep doing more courses, keep reading more books, keep researching more suburbs, or keep looking for the 'perfect' mentor who's gonna get paid alot of money to say "yep, you're on the right track.. do it"

I think for me... It's time to bite the bullet, time to take the plunge!!

Yes, there's probably always a better deal out there, or a better way of doing things... but... when does the thinking stop and the action begin??!!

I'm now realising that this forum is FULL of great contacts, supportive and encouraging people, and range of experts and LOADS of experience.... in just one thread I already feel that I'm building connections and networks with some genuinely supportive people - thank you!!

So, like many of you have advised... I will do my best to take advantage of this Forum, and keep building as many contacts and relationships as I can. I will keep learning, and keep building a network or experts to work with me.

I'm sincerely grateful for all your thoughts, opinions, advice, warnings, leads etc etc..

Hopefully by next week, the valuation on our PPOR will be in, and we'll be able to finalise our lending capacity.

From there, we will narrow down exactly what we want our next investment 'strategy' to be, then clarify some of our own goals and make a plan of action.

I'm gonna try to be bold, and take a leap of faith.

Will keep you all updated how we go....

 

[colleen_04]

With all due respect to these 3 (and I could be wrong here - happy to be correctd) - I don't think any of these three are reknowned for their advice on the 3 areas you wanted

1. renovation to add value
2. addition of secondary dwellings, or
3. small developments.

The Y-man

... fair point!

 

[colleen_04]

Why not continue to replicate what you did initially. Buy an IP with granny flat potential and repeat what you did with your PPOR.

Yep - pretty sure this is the path we will go - for now. But like you've mentioned, still concreting our "strategy"

You may need to take a step back and also ask yourself if this is the best time to be investing? I'm not saying it isn't; there will be a bull market somewhere.
As a mum, I honestly don't think they're will ever be a 'better' time.. I'm ready.

What books have you read as an initial part of your education?
lots.. maybe too many

What ideas have you gleaned from these to give you a more definite path? The folks you mention above have all achieved in their own way.

I feel quite passionately about cash-flow over capital gains. But that's just a reflection of our goals. My mum is going to retire comfortable on capital gains that she has made out of once negatively geared properties that she bought through TIC.. I know negatively geared can work... BUT.. we want to replace our income. That's our goal. .. I see capital gains as a bonus if you can find positive cash flow in an area that happens to have capital growth potential also.

I don't think, to the best of my knowledge, that Margaret Lomas has done too much in the value add arena. Her road is passive growth with cashflow. Nathan does well with his cheapeis that require structural and cosmetic work. He is very keen with numbers and has economy of scale with his trades. He is also considerably regional now. Can you afford time away to travel to coordinate reno's. Not everything can be done from an armchair or a desk.

.. all points taken on board.. good points.

Steve McKnight is currently doing the US thing however has had a variety of experience in cashflow cheapies and even some commercial developing.

yeah.. I'm sure he's doing well in the US.. but I'm not ready for that.. at this stage.. I just like the fact, that like Lomas and Birch, he's primary goal is cash-flow.

How much of this forum have you scoured? There is a veritable wealth of achievment and information here. Perhaps exposing yourself to more of the content here may assist you to refine the strategy or path you wish to take.
will do!

It seems to me you aren't that clear on this yet. A mentor (paid or otherwise) will need you know what you want, otherwise you may be best to attend some property meeting groups and network with like-minded's and see where that leads you.
I think my goals are getting clearer, but it's definitely a process.. even working through these discussions on this forum is really forcing me to nut it out more and more..

Get clear on what you want. General experiences as you mention in one of your posts can be retrieved from the myriad of books out there.
another good point!

Good luck and don't rush

ok. cheers!

 

[colleen_04]

i understand how you feel it is extremely hard to move forward i have heard recently that it is harder buying the second investment more so than the first ????
i think we had more good luck than good management with our ppor suiting a granny flat development. It was never intended that way initially... Yes.. Definitely harder now that i'm actually trying to actually follow a 'strategy'.. Much more scary!!

here are some ideas go to everydaypropertyinvesting.com or go to itunes and download there podcasts all free up to podcast 38 now
i have listened to several of their podcasts... Very 'everyday' people - which is nice.. Not pushy.. I'll have to get back to it! Thanks for the reminder.

also there are a couple of online course i am considering and they are not expensive try to google jane slack-smith
you're not the first to recommend jane slack-smith - thanks...
and the other was justine pollard i haven't heard of justine pollard - but will check it out!

or maybe we could do a little online research here on the forum to start the newbies off ????
that's the plan!!!

good luck

you too!!

 

[colleen_04]

Very hard to answer but knowing what you wish to achive is the start. What do you expect from property investment? I myself did not know what I wanted and now after 12 years of investing and constantly learning I set goals and try to achieve them. So my goal was to have a $2mill portfolio in retirement generating $50K in income (12 years ago) and now that goal is $10mill in property etc...
So what is your expectation? I am so amazed at how many people invest, into any class, but not many can really say why, or what they wish to achieve, when, etc... So start with a goal, then educate yourself on the startegy and/or strategies you wish to adopt and act.
Please read current Issue 133 of the 'Australian Property Investor' magazine on page 23 (a case study of positive cash flow startegy vs capital growth strategy so you are positively sure what the strategy is for you).
Thank you for your honest and genuine advice.. I WILL read this article...

So please learn, learn, learn and then act, act and act. The long term effects of property investing are tremendous, so keep it up and no one strategy is followed. Opportunities are everywhere but once you adopt a strategy, learn, be discipline to follow through, and repeat the process then you will succeed. It's like most really successful people do, they concentrate on one thing that they are good at and they do it very well, over and over and over again. Perhaps, the only drawback from all this information now is that people become jaded and complacent and spend all the time chasing the lastest investment.
Please read that page and let me know what you think and then I will advice further, if you wish of course.

Thank you.. I appreciate your comments.

 

[colleen_04]

The Y-man[/QUOTE]

I was going to suggest to Colleen to attend our monthly Melbourne (where else? )Somersoft meetings -a monthly return flight from Sydney and public transport to our meetings would be quite cheap compared to what some courses charge.

Thank you for your kind invitation!.. I think I will try to 'mix-it-up' with some more local 'gurus' first.. and then maybe in time I'll be in a more powerful position to start adventuring a little further afield.. my feeling is that there are many great contacts to be made here in Sydney (first).. but again - thank you!

And if it's really cashflow positive - to seek the Kaftan wearing Guru of the West (not sure if he believes in Skype )

Forgive my ignorance.. but is Nathan the Kaftan wearing Guru of the West???

The Y-man

 

[MIW]

Different products for different investors!

But don't you think selling some books is a little different to selling property worth 100's of 1000's that may be a poor investment for the investor, but a great one for the spruiker?

Even if having this type of conflict of interest in property is legal, do you think it's completely ethical selling to newbies under this guise?

Btw, you don't work for CWB do you .

As PB said learn from some books, and then join a forum or group for motivation.

No I do not work for them but I have purchased 9 properties through them.
How do you know that it's a poor investment? Wouldn't that be only our opinion? I see it this way, if 3000+ clients are happy and some are not then perhaps the product that they offer suits some but not all, like anything else.
You see you assume that everone that invests into property knows what is right investment for them and that they can do it better themselves. Perhaps so, you know what constitutes a right investment for you and thus this product is not for you, but perhaps it's right for me.
I was a newbie 12 years ago. I have 9 CWB properties and if it wasn't for them I would probably not be talking with you now.
Yes, perhaps I may have done better purchasing elsewhere myself, but at that stage in my life I did not know about property investing, I did not have the time to learn it, I didn't even want to. So if people choose the passive way, and have no way of knowing how to do it, do not wish to learn it, isn't it better that they follow someone that has done it, that offers a product on the market? Remember you do not have to buy through them, no one forces anything onto you and everything is disclosed.
It may not be the best option, not the most profitable, not the right one in others viewpoint, but at least they can be shown the way.
Since then I have purchased privately as I have gained a vast amount of knowledge and property interests me now but I am an advocate believer that nobody can do it all, at least not many people.
Unless you have the strategy, the knowledge, experience, you can source out the investment yourself, have the time, follow through with acquisition, either development, manage it, and continue doing it that's great. However, I do not, so I chose someone else to do it for me. Of course this is not for free, like nothing in life is, but I will be forever grateful as that company provided me with choices that I have in my life now. The information on demographics, mindset, insurances, plan B's, banking, setting goals, mentorship programs and heaps of other material help me to continue to achieve my goals, and in my view it cannnot be so bad.
So perhaps I am biased, but I am extremely grateful that such a product existed and I took a chance, otherwise I may have only owned my PPOR now....(I am only telling you my experience, that's all).

 

[The Y-man]

Forgive my ignorance.. but is Nathan the Kaftan wearing Guru of the West???

No ... at least I don't think he does - might be proven wrong at the end of this month when he does his presentation in Melbourne

I'll tease you a bit more - search kaftan using the seach tool above - see if you find a common character in the threads

The Y-man

 

[The Y-man]

We all have free will and choice so I am never pressured to sign anything from seminars I attend. For me it's the energy or the motivation that I may need or positive information on statistics, demographics, etc.... So the unaware investors all have the same choice and should learn and make sure whether it's a right investment for them.

I quite like seminars too - even better if they offer free food.

The Y-man

 

[MIW]

I quite like seminars too - even better if they offer free food.

The Y-man

You are funny and the semniars I attend do,,ha ha!

 

[weg]

MIW,

I have no doubt there's some good 'info' that's presented at some of these seminars.

My concern lies mainly with the first two Q's that I put to you, that you didn't answer.

 

[MIW]

MIW,

I have no doubt there's some good 'info' that's presented at some of these seminars.

My concern lies mainly with the first two Q's that I put to you, that you didn't answer.

Originally Posted by weg
But don't you think selling some books is a little different to selling property worth 100's of 1000's that may be a poor investment for the investor, but a great one for the spruiker?.

Sorry weg but I thought I did when I disagreed with the that's 'a poor investment', for some yes for some no. Therefore I disagree with the spruiker too. I had only good experience.

Even if having this type of conflict of interest in property is legal, do you think it's completely ethical selling to newbies under this guise?

I am not sure what conflict of interest you mean, whether selling via seminar (where you don't buy anything) or whether everthing can be sold under one umbrella, CWB does have the valuation team, and the finance branch, etc... All is disclosed and if someone had the idea to supply that under one shop stop, well then no. Isn't this the same with a finance institution, where you would go to a bank, and they can sell insurances, and where to invest your Super rather than just having bank products?
I still don't understand... nobody is sold anything unless you want to....
Surely you must know that to buy a property is not such a simple step.
Please remember that was my experience, and some stages were not all smooth sailing but being a passive investor then, I am glad I made the start, that's all.