Metropole properties
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I also subscribe to Metropole....
But as yet havent ventured with them at this stage.
I suggest you do due diligence...
You might be bettter doin a small development/purchase on your own..?
The advantage of Metropole type developments is that they do most of the work for you....however they also look for a return on their efforts..
Their are other venture systems out their....check out some of the nvestment magazines and look in your local paper...
Dave P
But as yet havent ventured with them at this stage.
I suggest you do due diligence...
You might be bettter doin a small development/purchase on your own..?
The advantage of Metropole type developments is that they do most of the work for you....however they also look for a return on their efforts..
Their are other venture systems out their....check out some of the nvestment magazines and look in your local paper...
Dave P
As Dave says, Metropole will hold your hand and do everything for you but at a high cost which i believe is about 20%.
I went along to their last seminar in Melbourne but i wouldn't recommend it. It was the usual spiel about how good property investing is and that the best way is to buy wholesale.
All of this led up to a weekend workshop that they were selling for $3,500! Personally, he came across as a bit arrogant and was making constant references to his wealth which was off putting.
There's a lot of other peple out there doing the same thing.
But i think it would be best to have a crack at it yourself if inclined. The amount of stuff you'd learn would be heaps plus it would be huge satisfaction at the end of it, and you'd also save yourself a bundle of $$$.
I went along to their last seminar in Melbourne but i wouldn't recommend it. It was the usual spiel about how good property investing is and that the best way is to buy wholesale.
All of this led up to a weekend workshop that they were selling for $3,500! Personally, he came across as a bit arrogant and was making constant references to his wealth which was off putting.
There's a lot of other peple out there doing the same thing.
But i think it would be best to have a crack at it yourself if inclined. The amount of stuff you'd learn would be heaps plus it would be huge satisfaction at the end of it, and you'd also save yourself a bundle of $$$.
Dave and Capitalist
Thanks for the replys I am however aware of my limitations in time and skill so am thinking that having someone to hold my hand through the process and limit my mistakes is worth paying for. For a first development at least my question is more if Metropole stack up and who else is out there that does the same thing.
Thanks for the replys I am however aware of my limitations in time and skill so am thinking that having someone to hold my hand through the process and limit my mistakes is worth paying for. For a first development at least my question is more if Metropole stack up and who else is out there that does the same thing.
As you are talking about me or my company, there is not too much that I will say other than to correct Dave.
He is right that we do everything for you, but he is incorrect that we charge 20%.
We charge a fixed fee dependant upon how much value we can add and it is charged progressivley over the project.
This fee is in the order of 5%. So if I could make you $60 -$90,000 you never had and it was tax free (as it usually is to our clients) why would you not pay us a fee.
By the way we put our money where our mouth is and our clients can sack us as project manager - no one has ever done this (yet!)
And... there is really no one else doing what we are doing for lots of reasons, especially as no one has the combine expertise of our team who have been involved in hundreds of millions of dollars worth of projects and we can list them, and we do, to any prsopsective client.
Sorry Dave if I offended you again by mentioning money and wealth, but if you got to know me you would know that I don't do it to impress you. I don't need to impress people I don't even know. Rather I do it to impress upon you that anyone can do it, no matter where you are financially today.
And Dave if you wouldn't recommend us why did you come along after and ask my personal advice on a number of matters related to your own property portfolio and then email me personally asking me further advice?
Are the snide remarks you made because we would not discount our fees to you like you requested? No we do not discount our fees - we act professionally and generally our clients respect this.
Michael
Thank you for the reply. I have been impressed that having done a reasonable amount of research I have not been able to find anyone who has been involved with you who has any thing to say but praise for you and your staffs integrity, honesty and skill especially when projects go through dificulties. All have commented that involvement with you and your company has more than met there expectations in both your expertise and eventually their financial profit.
Thank you for the reply. I have been impressed that having done a reasonable amount of research I have not been able to find anyone who has been involved with you who has any thing to say but praise for you and your staffs integrity, honesty and skill especially when projects go through dificulties. All have commented that involvement with you and your company has more than met there expectations in both your expertise and eventually their financial profit.
My My Have I upset Michael?
Michael...If you exercise due diligence.....
You will find I never mentioned the 20%
I have never spoken to us personally....
And I have never ever asked you to reduce your fees.....
Has someone touched on a raw nerve....????
I only said I subscribe to your newletter....
In actual fact I find your newsletter quite informative
Please re-read the thread.... I look forward to your corrections...
DaveP
Michael...If you exercise due diligence.....
You will find I never mentioned the 20%
I have never spoken to us personally....
And I have never ever asked you to reduce your fees.....
Has someone touched on a raw nerve....????
I only said I subscribe to your newletter....
In actual fact I find your newsletter quite informative
Please re-read the thread.... I look forward to your corrections...
DaveP
Originally posted by DaveP
My My Have I upset Michael?
In actual fact I find your newsletter quite informative
Please re-read the thread.... I look forward to your corrections...
DaveP
Dave I am very sorry. You are correct.
And I was wrong.
My remarks were definatetly not aimed at you but at Mark - Capitalist who spoke to me on a few occassions. I knew who I was talking about - jsut messed things up a little
Thank you for the good comments and once again I apologise for the error
____________________________________________
I went along to their last seminar in Melbourne but i wouldn't recommend it. It was the usual spiel about how good property investing is and that the best way is to buy wholesale.
All of this led up to a weekend workshop that they were selling for $3,500! Personally, he came across as a bit arrogant and was making constant references to his wealth which was off putting
________________________________________________
My 2 cents here:
I went to last Metropole seminar and I would recommend it. There was heaps of information in regard to property, accounting, legals and financing. Of course (as usual), how worth it is will depend upon each individual level of experience and knowledge. Perhaps, Michael may consider to set an entry level?
Michael, his wife Pam and the rest of the team were very professional and approachable. I did not find Michael arrogant at all and aggree that when he mentioned his wealth was to teach us that it is possible for every one. He wasn't bragging about it.
The price, as mentioned, was $3500 but, no one does anything for free. It was not charity after all and as long as it helps me to better myself... I'll pay.
In my interactions with others, I don't mind if they do money as long as I do it too
Regards,
James.
PS. Haven't done a project with Michael yet but, I'm looking forward to. I 'm sure that if I do it myself will be more profitable but, my lack of experience and resources (at this time), tell me that it's cheaper to give Michael a cut.
I went along to their last seminar in Melbourne but i wouldn't recommend it. It was the usual spiel about how good property investing is and that the best way is to buy wholesale.
All of this led up to a weekend workshop that they were selling for $3,500! Personally, he came across as a bit arrogant and was making constant references to his wealth which was off putting
________________________________________________
My 2 cents here:
I went to last Metropole seminar and I would recommend it. There was heaps of information in regard to property, accounting, legals and financing. Of course (as usual), how worth it is will depend upon each individual level of experience and knowledge. Perhaps, Michael may consider to set an entry level?
Michael, his wife Pam and the rest of the team were very professional and approachable. I did not find Michael arrogant at all and aggree that when he mentioned his wealth was to teach us that it is possible for every one. He wasn't bragging about it.
The price, as mentioned, was $3500 but, no one does anything for free. It was not charity after all and as long as it helps me to better myself... I'll pay.
In my interactions with others, I don't mind if they do money as long as I do it too
Regards,
James.
PS. Haven't done a project with Michael yet but, I'm looking forward to. I 'm sure that if I do it myself will be more profitable but, my lack of experience and resources (at this time), tell me that it's cheaper to give Michael a cut.
I am actively involved in a project of Metropole.
As with all things the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, when the project is completed the numbers added up I can give you my appraisal of the entire project.
So from my position let me say
Bad points are few and minor.
Donft expect to hand over your money to Metropole and expect that everything will be perfect, expect a problems, resolve in advance and when they do happen just deal with them as a natural course of action. Bluntly, in my case I work 12 hours a day 5 or 6 days a week to earn a good salary but then after living expenses, taxes, school fees, return visit to Australia each year etc. after 12 months I am lucky if I can save $25K a year. The project I am working on with Metropole is forecast in one year to deliver $100K of "wealth" in the form of equity, which is the same as me working too hard for 4 long years. So in comparison to the hardship and frustrations of years of efforts as a salaried worker, any problems are very minor.
So I recommend you look at what Metropole has to offer. Resolve in advance to perform reasonable due diligence before starting any project. Even with Metropole running things for me, I am learning in the process.
I very much believe "real" property investing must contain an aspect of finding ways to take existing an piece of land and find a profitable ways to moving it from lower value/yielding activities to higher value/yielding activities from simple cosmetic renovations all the way to full rezoning and unit construction. That doesnft mean simple buy and hold is wrong, if you have limited time ( 20 years or less) and limited investment $'s a focus on first adding value would be more logical way to increase wealth.
Remember also that Metropole cannot protect you against future market changes; you have to accept responsibility for choosing what Metropole proposes is a good investment in today's market. Conclusion: So far I am happy and satisfied with my dealings with Metropole, naturally I am looking forward to the profitable conclusion of the development and am looking forward to giving them repeat business.
As with all things the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, when the project is completed the numbers added up I can give you my appraisal of the entire project.
So from my position let me say
- Metropole and Michael Yardney are NOT some type of scam property marketers (ie reselling overpriced units to gullible investors). All my dealings with MY and Metropole have been very fair, reasonable and professional at all times. Metropole is absolutely not using the same business model as lets say the gInvestors Clubh.
- The project management fee is 5% of the value of the project. I choose to believe that Metropole's (MY) skills and knowledge saves at least 5% in comparison to DIY. In the worst case lets say I imagine he can only save during construction 2.5% in comparison to newbee DIY developer, it means Metropole service adds a 2.5% premium. But for that 2.5% I gain two major benefits:
- I donft have to do any leg work.
- The leverage of Metropoles skills and knowledge is a type of insurance policy preventing a wanabee developer like me fall into the traps pitfalls and problems that as a first timer I would probably fall into.
Naturally if Metropole did it for free I would be happy, it would mean 5% more profit, but if so then Metropole wouldn't/couldn't exist as a company/business, meaning I would have a 0% return. So the question we should ask is "Is 5% fair and reasonable given the amount of work and value/wealth/equity/profit generated?". If a property development company was offering a free service you would have to very sceptical and seek to find the "hidden" profit.
- MY at all times (to the point of being annoying about it) prompts me to perform my own due diligence, purchase price, probably on-sale prices etc.
- Big money (land/site purchase, construction costs) do not go thru Metropole's accounts, only small fees such as $300 soil tests, engineers reports etc are paid by Metropole and invoiced then to me, but all big ticket items are paid by me directly to solicitors and/or the builder.
- My due diligence of Metropole showed many happy customers willing to do it again (or doing it again).
- Whilst I have no access to the details, it would appear that MY has indeed grown wealthy performing the same developments for himself as he is now performing for others.
Bad points are few and minor.
- Metropole is not a big company so accept that some small miscommunications missed messages or lost email. In a few cases Metropole was waiting for action/decision from me and I was waiting for some action/information from them. Nothing that I would consider major, I would call them minor frustrations and something that I have to accept as my partially my fault (I am busy, MY is busy => communication gets missed).
- I agree the "wealth generation" aspects of Metropolefs marketing of are a bit strong/over the top. In my opinion Metropole does a mild disservice to themselves, my advise would turn it down a couple notches and let their satisfied customers (recommendation letters/referrals) be their #1 marketing tool. What I do see is a real desire to generate real value to their customers and in doing so run a profitable business that is fundamentally reasonable and ethical.
- Not really a fault, just a fact; margins are smaller i.e. 9~13% than what a "typical" developer could expect, my research shows that most developers expect over 20%. But for me, as a hands-off investor I have to ask the question; is a low to moderate risk project forecast to achieve 9~13% (about 40% return of invested cash) better than zero risk and 0% return? Also remember you will also benefit natural price appreciation during the life of the project. Thus if the general prices increase 5% for the year and the project returns 10% I would have an actual return of 15%. Conversely in the worst case and Melbournefs markets prices suffers a -20% decline I will be sitting on only 10% of negative equity. You could think of the development as providing equity cushion should any negative growth occurs in the Melbourne market.
Donft expect to hand over your money to Metropole and expect that everything will be perfect, expect a problems, resolve in advance and when they do happen just deal with them as a natural course of action. Bluntly, in my case I work 12 hours a day 5 or 6 days a week to earn a good salary but then after living expenses, taxes, school fees, return visit to Australia each year etc. after 12 months I am lucky if I can save $25K a year. The project I am working on with Metropole is forecast in one year to deliver $100K of "wealth" in the form of equity, which is the same as me working too hard for 4 long years. So in comparison to the hardship and frustrations of years of efforts as a salaried worker, any problems are very minor.
So I recommend you look at what Metropole has to offer. Resolve in advance to perform reasonable due diligence before starting any project. Even with Metropole running things for me, I am learning in the process.
I very much believe "real" property investing must contain an aspect of finding ways to take existing an piece of land and find a profitable ways to moving it from lower value/yielding activities to higher value/yielding activities from simple cosmetic renovations all the way to full rezoning and unit construction. That doesnft mean simple buy and hold is wrong, if you have limited time ( 20 years or less) and limited investment $'s a focus on first adding value would be more logical way to increase wealth.
Remember also that Metropole cannot protect you against future market changes; you have to accept responsibility for choosing what Metropole proposes is a good investment in today's market. Conclusion: So far I am happy and satisfied with my dealings with Metropole, naturally I am looking forward to the profitable conclusion of the development and am looking forward to giving them repeat business.
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Sorry Perky
We are currently not doing any developments in Sydney but with so many people asking....who knows???
I am happy to discuss the specific details of my project in a private message ( I dont have the Project Management Agreement with me today, but I think I am not supposed to discuss fine details of my project).
As for Sydney, I asked a few months ago and Metropole wasn't doing it, just thinking about it! If all goes well with this project I would be more than happy to be the first Sydney client, something like this crap house on a big flat expensive bit of land in search of developer is very attractive to me.
As for Sydney, I asked a few months ago and Metropole wasn't doing it, just thinking about it! If all goes well with this project I would be more than happy to be the first Sydney client, something like this crap house on a big flat expensive bit of land in search of developer is very attractive to me.
Relax Michael,
I'm not sure what remarks you considered "snide" as I don't believe there were are any made in my post.
It was merely a subjective post made myself from my own observations. I find it interesting the way you use the words "snide" and "slur" to describe someone's opinion of your business that you may not agree with.
The advice I later requested from you was whether you knew someone in Queensland that did similar work to your own company.
You responded by saying that you would only give me their contact details if I gave you my properties to manage.
I then replied that I thought it was an interesting way for you to conduct business, and I'm not sure whether the Queensland company would appreciate your method of referals.
I know many companies and businesses in different industries that will happily refer business to others without requesting some type of payment for it.
I have never requested a discount on your fees so I'm not really sure what you're talking about here.
I think you may be referring to the property management fees which you have never disclosed to me, so i couldn't possibly have requested a discount on something i don't know the amount of?
And if you don't want to match those fees i'm currently paying, i can live with that.
Cheerio,
Mark
I'm not sure what remarks you considered "snide" as I don't believe there were are any made in my post.
It was merely a subjective post made myself from my own observations. I find it interesting the way you use the words "snide" and "slur" to describe someone's opinion of your business that you may not agree with.
The advice I later requested from you was whether you knew someone in Queensland that did similar work to your own company.
You responded by saying that you would only give me their contact details if I gave you my properties to manage.
I then replied that I thought it was an interesting way for you to conduct business, and I'm not sure whether the Queensland company would appreciate your method of referals.
I know many companies and businesses in different industries that will happily refer business to others without requesting some type of payment for it.
I have never requested a discount on your fees so I'm not really sure what you're talking about here.
I think you may be referring to the property management fees which you have never disclosed to me, so i couldn't possibly have requested a discount on something i don't know the amount of?
And if you don't want to match those fees i'm currently paying, i can live with that.
Cheerio,
Mark
Just curious, Michael, whether you know that for sure as I have seen websites advertising "armchair developments". eg http://www.investmenthouse.com.au/investment_house_developers_profit.html Isn't that what you are referring to?
Regards, Mike
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Mike
I was reffering to our range of development management services. These are detailed on our web site- www.metropole.com.au
"Armchair developments" as you fondly put it are a small part of our range of services.
Having said that, I still do not know of anyone else in Melbourne doing them at present, but I stand to be corrected.
There was another company called Regency Projects who was doing this but they closed down a few years ago. A company called Siver Unicorn tried to get involved but had difficulty getting off the ground.
Even the investors club (?I think that's what they are called) tried to give it a go until they got into trouble with the ASIC. The contracts and system we use would not get our clients into trouble for a number of reasons. They are fully compliant with the new Financial Services Reform Act and have been checked out by many solicitors and accountants and most of the big banks.
So I still believe we are the only organisation currently doing what we are doing in Melbourne.
That doesn't mean that others won't try again to emulate our formula. I'm sure someone will if they have not already.
We don't have a monopoly on it. What we do have is the track records and the integrity. Every 6 months or so this type of thread pops up and it is great publicity - usually we come out looking pretty good.
Sure some may say I am arrogant - I think even my mother would agree with that one. But I am honest in business and my client's interests always come first. No one has ever been able to say anything to the contrary and that will stand us apart from many others in the property industry.
Mike
I know Investment House well -their sales manager Salesh Channen is an old friend from when he lived in Melbourne.
He and his boss Colin Ferguson came down and spent the best part of a day with us last year and wanted to "licence" our systems and documentation. We talked about a sort of franchise, they were keen but it never got off the ground because we were too busy to do anything about it.
Instead they tried to do it on their own. In fact they cut and pasted large parts of our old web site and used it in theirs ( inparticular the page you highlighted.)
As far as I know, they have not done a co developer program , they hadn't when I last spoke to them, despite the service being on their web site.
There are a couple of reasons they haven't-
* They are estate agents not developers or builders and couldn't get it worked out.
* They did not have the proprietry documentation or systems we have got to make the system work within the rules of the Financial Services Reform Act - the act that got the invetsors club into trouble and into the courts.
* They told me they couldn't find projects that stack up - this is also our biggest hold up.
*They told me planning regulations are a little different in Queensland
Having said that, they are a very professional crowd who do other things that are relevant to their local market
Thanks for the feedback, Michael.
While your program represents a great leap forward for ordinary investors who want to invest safely with minimal holding costs it is rather depressing that this opportunity is presently confined to the Melbourne market when other areas around the country are moving and more affordable.
What can be done about this? Are you willing or able to set up a national operation?
Regards, Mike
While your program represents a great leap forward for ordinary investors who want to invest safely with minimal holding costs it is rather depressing that this opportunity is presently confined to the Melbourne market when other areas around the country are moving and more affordable.
What can be done about this? Are you willing or able to set up a national operation?
If you expanded the operation to other states could you find suitable projects?
Regards, Mike
