NBN - Foresight or not

[topcropper]

You mean money doesn't come from the finance fairy? Way to destroy my perception of the world of finance. Or maybe you just make yourself look stupid by making such ludicrous statements.

Remind me TC, who was it that you voted for again?

Hell yeah. I voted for Windsor and am highly embarrased. At least I'm in good company in my electorate eh.

Some clown was handing out labor membership cards as a bit of a joke at the pub the other night to everyone who voted for Windsor. Not many owned up, but I took my medicine. And I haven't even run into Thorpie yet! He will give it to me.


See ya's.

 

[topcropper]

TC, this has to be one of the dumbest, most sweeping over-generalisations i've read on here. Are you serious?

I think you need to get out of the bush now and then mate. There is a big world out there.

As for the NBN, the problem with Liberals, right wing economic rationalism is that it is so short sighted. They want return on funds now. Or at least proof of it. Look at WW's constant whinging about this. Ridiculous!

We're lucky they didn't have this philosophy when the building our roads, rail etc.

Not much point arguing. Lets all come back in a few years time and have a big old 'Told ya so'.

Some of the things Kev wanted to do to our economy makes me have the views I do. Both the ETS and the mining tax were dumb, and were just designed to take money from business and give to labor voters. That's just how I see it.


See ya's.

 

[Dazz]

Due to a complete lack of concrete facts on this subject, I predict this will degenerate even further than what it has into a ;

• I vote Labor therefore the NBN is just great, and
• I vote Liberal therefore the NBN sux

Fortunately, there is no serious money to be made from anything to do with this discussion.

 

[Witzl]

i made my thoughts pretty well known in the "Liberal Fed Govt" thread.
I tried to make it pretty clear that I think neither side has got it right.

I really do think that the NBN is a fantastic idea, cos I love the internet, but I think that we could reach >90% of the results of the proposed NBN if we scaled back the project and built it at ~50-60% of the current costs.


Cast your memories back to the bungled NBN tender back in 2008. Lets call this NBN V1.0, and the new $43billion version NBN V2.0.

NBN V1.0 was intended to be:
- FTTC (fibre to the curb, or street cabinet)
- the last connection from curb/cabinet to home via copper, which could still take advantage of new VDSL technology
- complete fibre backhaul of the network
- splitting Telstra's retail and wholesale divisions to eliminate their vertical monopoly and increase competition
- put to a tender process, the winner of which would build the new network
- wireless and satellite services to the bush

NBN V1.0 was costed at approx $15 billion:
- $5 billion from govt
- $10 billion from the tender winner/private enterprise


... as opposed to NBN V2.0.....
- FTTH (fibre to the home)
- complete fibre network backhaul
- buying out Telstra's wholesale
- wireless and satellite services to the bush

NBN V2.0 is costed at approx $43 billion:
- $27 billion from govt
- $16 billion from private enterprise



I kinda think that the NBN V1.0 is a smarter option. It still delivers good broadband service and access, and costs the govt a heck of a lot less. The only reason it never happened is cos of that retard Sol Trujilio trying to play a bluff card to the govt by not submitting their tender... so the Rodd govt decided they would go about building the network themselves as NBN V2.0.


There are arguments for and against NBN V2.0..... my argument is that I think we could deliver at least 90% of the economic and social benefits at around half the cost.

 

[Roachy]

Due to a complete lack of concrete facts on this subject, I predict this will degenerate even further than what it has into a ;

• I vote Labor therefore the NBN is just great, and
• I vote Liberal therefore the NBN sux

Fortunately, there is no serious money to be made from anything to do with this discussion.

LOL. Foresighting into the world's largest emerging industry. No money to be made? OK.

 

[Dazz]

No money to be made? OK.

Drag this festering **** of a thread up in 5 years time Roachy and regale us with how much money you made from discussing this nonsense.

 

[Roachy]

I didn't bring money up, you did.

I'm using this thread to get ideas. The majority of people have expresed their ideas in a clear and concise manner, unlike yourself.

Why is it nonsense? You don't believe in foresighting? Just interested. Unlike you, I am not pessimistic toward anything I don't agree with. Please enlighten us.

 

[Dazz]

I didn't bring money up, you did.

Yes I did, as an investor, money sometimes becomes central.

I'm using this thread to get ideas.

What are you gonna do with the ideas ??

The majority of people have expresed their ideas in a clear and concise manner, unlike yourself.

I'm reknowned for being obtuse and unclear, it comes with the territory of being a loony.

You don't believe in foresighting?

Alas, I've never heard of the word before - sounds rather rude to me, something like the main event at a baptism ??

Unlike you, I am not pessimistic toward anything I don't agree with.

No, no, you've got me all wrong. I'm absolutely over the moon with all concepts I disagree with. I fully encourage everything to succeed that I disagree with. Anything that I do agree with, I usually bludgeon to death to ensure it's failure.

Simple really when you get to know me roachy - my good fellow.

 

[weg]

I'd like to know who here as a LL would happily connect fibre to their IP's? I certainly wouldn't.

Rental housing makes up a large percentage of housing.

I actually don't see many OO connecting at 3 to 5K a connection either. I have other priorities.

Kids are 90% wireless for mobility (we have fixed too) and they aren't gamers. Even if they were, it would be TTies.

H3ll, the Tasmainians that have access to it aren't all scrambling to connect on either.

But we'll all pay for this.

A thorough cost benefit analysis is very much warranted in this case.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Due to a complete lack of concrete facts on this subject, I predict this will degenerate even further than what it has into a ;

• I vote Labor therefore the NBN is just great, and
• I vote Liberal therefore the NBN sux

Fortunately, there is no serious money to be made from anything to do with this discussion.

Where's the 'I don't vote for anyone and I could care less about the NBN' option?

 

[Roachy]

Yes I did, as an investor, money sometimes becomes central.



What are you gonna do with the ideas ??



I'm reknowned for being obtuse and unclear, it comes with the territory of being a loony.



Alas, I've never heard of the word before - sounds rather rude to me, something like the main event at a baptism ??



No, no, you've got me all wrong. I'm absolutely over the moon with all concepts I disagree with. I fully encourage everything to succeed that I disagree with. Anything that I do agree with, I usually bludgeon to death to ensure it's failure.

Simple really when you get to know me roachy - my good fellow.

HAHAHA

Well I'm glad you have seen the brighter side.

If you read my second thread, I am writing a research paper on the NBN and technology foresight relies heavily on four main contributors; political, economic, social and technological. Thus, I am getting the social ideals from the general population of Somersoft.

Thus, this is an important part of my research. Seeing the general public's ideas and potential foresight methods/ideas etc.

I have currently looked at the 4 major aspects the NBN believes it will 'revolutionise'; business, health, education and rural areas. My research paper will analyse the future of these 4 industries and potentially provide a reason for the NBN or a reason to dump the NBN and go with a future technology such as 5G.

Dazz my loony friend, you would probably be the best at foresighting, as you are a looney. And everyone knows loony's provide the best ideas.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Fortunately, there is no serious money to be made from anything to do with this discussion.

In 2009 Australia's GDP was 1.2T.
All levels of govt took 28% of that.

If the govt just raised the 28% to 50%, think of all the stuff they could give us for free.

 

[Dazz]

WW,


If I want to make some money off the Govt, I'll go and buy one of those swanky buildings in Canberra that they all love to work in.


Fed Govt pays me 10% nett and I shuffle 8% off to the Banks. I then have the automatic skimmer on for the full 2% difference.


Best thing of all, I couldn't give a stuff what they do in there. Most of 'em just stare at the screen and surf the net (like I do)....and whinge that their work / life balance isn't right. The boss is forced to be lenient and round and round the merry-go-round goes. Yippee.


Trouble is, all of the foreign corporations know about this lark as well....you have to beat them off with a stick. Sound good fun ??

 

[Dazz]

Dazz my loony friend, you would probably be the best at foresighting, as you are a looney. And everyone knows loony's provide the best ideas.

...and I'd be more than happy to contribute for something worthwhile....but if you are just writing a research paper so it can be tossed on the heap with all the other untold and unread thousand research papers, well then, there's not much point really.

 

[Roachy]

You're right it will be tossed on the heap, but atleast I get a mark which goes toward my high distinction standing for my Masters. So I'm happy enough for it to be tossed, as long as I get a good mark.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Trouble is, all of the foreign corporations know about this lark as well....you have to beat them off with a stick. Sound good fun ??

as well as some locals, like Molonglo Group, who are waking up that there's money in developing AND being a landlord of fat public servants who will pay a hefty premium for environmentally sustainable design, just so us plebs know how serious our govt takes global warming.

I'd be happy to provide the Dept of Climate Change with their next building - 100 gunyahs outside Bourke - demountable, transportable, 100% recyclable, zero carbon emissions, jobs for regional Australia......connect em all up with solar powered wireless internet.


Which gets me back to the NBN.....how do the growing number of frugals and boomers who are retiring to caravan and mobile home parks get their 100mbps FTTH drop wires?

 

[sue78]

does the estimate include the drop in from the exchange to every home or do we have to pay for this?

If so, I can't see us using fibre because I could never go back to a fixed line. We all have laptops, there's no 'study' or even a 'desk'. Have not had a desktop in about 3yrs. It just gets cluttered and messy. When our friends/family come over or we go to their house, it's normal to ask to connect up to their wifi.

wifi is definitely the technology for the future because it's what people are steering towards and prefer to use, especially thanks to Apple!

Even LCD tvs now have inbuilt wifi and, in future, we will be able to watch any program anywhere in the world. Well, we can do that now. Granted wifi is still annoying, takes a few mins to buffer a whole video but I still prefer this to a cable.

It's really backwards to go back to cable. In Europe, Korea, Japan, Singapore, they're rolling out 4G and hopefully 5G..it will only get faster.

Fibre would be beneficial for the government, businesses etc but it's a waste of money to roll it out australia wide to every home.

But no matter how great you think NBN is, it also comes with the internet filter....if we ever get internet filter in Oz, I may seriously have to consider moving to another country! I was surprised to find out that facebook is banned in china.

 

[evand]

I think this is the equivalent of saying 33.6k dial up modems are fine in 1998.

Why would anyone need more speed or bandwidth?

I'd like to know who here as a LL would happily connect fibre to their IP's? I certainly wouldn't.

Rental housing makes up a large percentage of housing.

I actually don't see many OO connecting at 3 to 5K a connection either. I have other priorities.

Kids are 90% wireless for mobility (we have fixed too) and they aren't gamers. Even if they were, it would be TTies.

H3ll, the Tasmainians that have access to it aren't all scrambling to connect on either.

But we'll all pay for this.

A thorough cost benefit analysis is very much warranted in this case.

 

[evand]

The don't give it to us for free. Its our money they're spending on us.

In 2009 Australia's GDP was 1.2T.
All levels of govt took 28% of that.

If the govt just raised the 28% to 50%, think of all the stuff they could give us for free.

 

[weg]

I think this is the equivalent of saying 33.6k dial up modems are fine in 1998.

Why would anyone need more speed or bandwidth?

I don't think it is the same at all in this case.

My speed is on par, or so it seems, to my workplace which is a large Government department with speed far superior to dialup.

My workplace is mangaging very well on those speeds and so am I. It's not the 'horse and cart' that dial up is.

I think you've failed to grasp the context of the whole of my post though. Cost will make this prohibitive for many and others simply won't be interested. Most of those that could afford it won't actually NEED it.

So who will need it (at that cost it should only be considered a need).

Some businesses - varying degrees of financial gain there.

Very few homeowners - online traders??

Country business and people that have dial up speeds and poor connectivity (?? cheaper alternatives).

So why wouldn't we want an upgrade -because it's benefits don't outway the benefits of more important infrastructure upgrades and services we could do with now.

Because most don't play online games, day trade, or afford, let alone are interested in, all the latest toys that would be supported by this technology.

My proposition is those that need it other than those in regional areas should be paying for it, othewise leave it for when we really can't do without it.