Neighbourhood feuds

[alplant]

We have a bit of a situation happening with one of our IP's. It appears that our tenants have got into some sort of quarrel with some new neighbours.

We got a phone call a week or so ago from the real estate who is managing the other property complaining about our tenants. My OH took the call and told the bloke not to bother us and to take it up with our PM. We then rang our PM to find out if she knew about it. She did as it turned out, and was of the opinion that as our tenants had been there for 18 months without any complaints from neighbours, maybe the problem was with the new people. Sounds reasonable we thought, and left it there.

Then last night there was another phone call, this time from the actual neighbour, in tears apparently. My OH took this call as well. His question from our point of view, was how did she get our phone number? When he asked, she said our PM gave it to her. So he rang the principal of our Real Estate, who was also aware of the ongoing problem and appeared to be a little shocked to hear that we even knew about it, let alone that we were getting calls. He reckons that he finds it hard to believe that our PM would have given out our phone number and I tend to agree with him but he has promised to look into it. Obviously the other RE has our number and it could just as easily have come from there, but the woman did say it was our PM and even named her.

Incidentally he also took a call from the neighbour last night and he suggested she call the police.

Some of you might remember a thread last year about these tenants and the fact that my OH was abused by the young bloke's mother-in-law. The advice back then from most people was to get rid of them. Everything has been relatively quiet since all that was sorted or at least that's what we thought. I guess if we hadn't received these phone calls we would be none the wiser about any of this, not that it is really any business of ours anyway, as we pointed out to the both the neighbour and their PM. But having said all that we don't really need neighbours calling us at night to complain about our tenants.

Might be time to have another look at things.

 

[csc2]

its not difficult to trace owners of rentals...perhaps someone has access to pds or rp data...

i have done exactly the same thing and called the owner a few years ago at midnight to get his attention after no satisfaction from the PM over a period of months over 24/7 parties...id had enough!......worked results real quick....and obviously this has got your attention...........sometimes you have to get past the PM mentality as they really dont give a toss except to ensure they skim their commission monthly...

Either give the PM a directive to sort it out or do it yourself and move on.........

I dont care who any agent is, they dont look after your business like you do!

 

[Peterw]

Interesting, we are working with a similar problem, where our tenant, is not getting on with a neighbouring tenant, and we are trying to find a solution. It woul dseem in our case, that we believe both are contributing, if not the problem it self ( thats hard to idenfity now) but at least escalation. We are now working at getting both parties, not to respond to, when an event occurs, and see if that starts to get things back on track

 

[chilliblue]

I would not get involved unless your tenant is a breach of the agreement.

At the end of the day we are talking about adults - not children.

What would these parties be doing if they owned these properties? They would have to resolve it themselves and trot off to mediation if they couldn't.

Advise the other neighbour and their PM not to call you and to direct all calls to your PM.

At the end of the day, your business is investment properties not counselling.

 

[Dazz]

A person's residential amenity is a precious thing indeed, but can be trampled on so easily.

This is an area of "competing rights". Unless one party immediately backs down, it can escalate and get ugly quickly.

There are no sledgehammer solutions. Australian's have far too many rights in this regard to do anything quickly. If one party wishes to act foolishly, there is pretty much nothing anyone can do.

Naturally, I have encountered this scenario many times and found a permanent 100% iron clad solution for this problem.....but....oh never mind. You know what I'm going to say.

 

[Lil Skater]

The other PM could easily get your detail off RP Data and would know your PMs name as that would have been their first port of call to ask to speak to the PM of that address.

But if it were your PM, sack them. I would never give out LL contact details unless the LL has instructed me too, it's a breach of their privacy and let's face it, most people have PMs so the tenants do not know who they are and they don't have to deal with any of this.

Also to the other poster - that is incredibly rude to call anyone at midnight, let alone the LL, you should never be contacting the LL directly and should never be given their details unless they have specified that you can have them. Also sometimes it's the PM and not the LL who is not acting upon things like this.

 

[Dazz]

acting upon things like this.

Being in the industry yourself, could I please ask ;

1. What is the enforceable action ?

2. Who has the authority to rule on any action ?

3. Whose task is it to enforce the action after the authority has ruled so ?

 

[chilliblue]

But if it were your PM, sack them. I would never give out LL contact details unless the LL has instructed me too, it's a breach of their privacy and let's face it, most people have PMs so the tenants do not know who they are and they don't have to deal with any of this.

I would be worried about trusting someones comments who is in a dispute with an occupant of your investment property.

If you believe that your PM is acting in your interests, keep them.

At the end of the day, sacking an agent at this point could give the neighbour more strength and keep working on you until your tenant is also gone.

Trust me when I say leave this one alone unless the tenancy or the property is affected.

Never get involved in problems thare are not yours as my Dad always says.

 

[csc2]

Also to the other poster - that is incredibly rude to call anyone at midnight, let alone the LL, you should never be contacting the LL directly and should never be given their details unless they have specified that you can have them. Also sometimes it's the PM and not the LL who is not acting upon things like this.

Rude??? Are you kidding? Im in my own home and some scum tenant living next door wants to party 24/7, invite every ferel within 100kms around day and night to hit the turps, play loud music, toss cans and bottles over the fence..

Short of taking to the tenant with a baseball bat no PM was going to have a win with him.....straight to the real owner works well!

How dare a scum tenant interfere in my private life of sleep at night for weeks on end, night after night and day after day.........

To give my family peace I will go to any lengths I see fit to ensure my family and I can get some peace...

After wasting three weeks with a PM that was deaf and dumb it was the only action worthy other than call the police which is basically a waste of time anyway and would have inflamed the situation more....

I would have no hesitation doing it again in a heartbeat.....so keep your phone off the hook after midnight!

 

[cmason]

Short of taking to the tenant with a baseball bat...

Think this would have been just as effective

Had a similar call round 7am one Sunday morning about one of our tenants who had only lived there a few weeks. Our property was in a block of townhouses and one of the neighbors called us(not too sure how she got our number suspecting from the body corporate) and said a van full of islanders rocked up at 3am and beat the living daylights out of one of the people at the party and that they feared for their safety.

And rightly so we went over there that day saw the guy who had been beaten up whose face was unrecognizable and let them know they needed to vacate as soon as possible.

 

[alplant]

I would not get involved unless your tenant is a breach of the agreement.

At the end of the day we are talking about adults - not children.

What would these parties be doing if they owned these properties? They would have to resolve it themselves and trot off to mediation if they couldn't.

Advise the other neighbour and their PM not to call you and to direct all calls to your PM.

At the end of the day, your business is investment properties not counselling.

Couldn't agree more. If the lady concerned is fearful she should be contacting the police as the RE Principal advised her. We have already told both of them to take it up with our PM and not to call us again but I don't think the two PM's should have to be mediating this either. Of course if it escalates there is the possibility of damage to either property, so if our tenants are the antagonists we would want them out before it ends up like cmason's experience.

 

[Perp]

i have done exactly the same thing and called the owner a few years ago at midnight

Rude??? Are you kidding? Im in my own home and some scum tenant living next door wants to party 24/7, invite every ferel within 100kms around day and night to hit the turps, play loud music, toss cans and bottles over the fence..

All that behaviour is atrocious, and you should complain - but not to the landlord for crying out loud. Not only should the landlord not have to get involved, but the landlord cannot get involved, unless the tenant is breaching their lease agreement. Making noise, damaging your property, littering, etc, are all law and order matters, not tenancy matters.

I would not get involved unless your tenant is a breach of the agreement.

At the end of the day we are talking about adults - not children.

What would these parties be doing if they owned these properties? They would have to resolve it themselves and trot off to mediation if they couldn't.

Advise the other neighbour and their PM not to call you and to direct all calls to your PM.

At the end of the day, your business is investment properties not counselling.

Couldn't agree more. Your relationship with the tenant is defined by, and limited to, the scope of the lease, and if they're abiding by their obligations under the lease, not only do you not have to get involved, but you could find yourself in trouble with the law yourself if you do say anything. As the landlord, your tenant's social relationships and conduct are none of your business and you have no obligation - or right - to regulate (provided the lease isn't being breached).

Had a similar call round 7am one Sunday morning about one of our tenants who had only lived there a few weeks. Our property was in a block of townhouses and one of the neighbors called us(not too sure how she got our number suspecting from the body corporate) and said a van full of islanders rocked up at 3am and beat the living daylights out of one of the people at the party and that they feared for their safety.

And rightly so we went over there that day saw the guy who had been beaten up whose face was unrecognizable and let them know they needed to vacate as soon as possible.

Rightly so? You evicted somebody on the basis that they were the victim of an assault? The Tribunal would have mopped the floor with you if the tenant had fought it.

As chilliblue has said, there are enough problems that you do have to deal with, without taking on extras.

 

[Lil Skater]

Dazz, to tell you the truth - I don't know, which is why I did not state these opinions. The point I was trying to make wasn't that the PM is responsible to rectify the situation per se, my point was that the PM should not have given out the Landlords personal details.

I would be worried about trusting someones comments who is in a dispute with an occupant of your investment property.

If you believe that your PM is acting in your interests, keep them.

At the end of the day, sacking an agent at this point could give the neighbour more strength and keep working on you until your tenant is also gone.

Not sure about what you mean in your first sentence?

Agree if they are working with you, keep them, however if they're giving out your personal information this is a big no, no. Obviously they're not wanting to spend the time on the situation themselves, which is what they're employed to do (If it is something in their control). This would be enough for me to fire them.

Sacking an agent and taking up a better one, doesn't give them more strength - If anything it could be less as the new agent would be working their butt off to show how good they are.

Rude??? Are you kidding? Im in my own home and some scum tenant living next door wants to party 24/7, invite every ferel within 100kms around day and night to hit the turps, play loud music, toss cans and bottles over the fence..

straight to the real owner works well!

How dare a scum tenant interfere in my private life of sleep at night for weeks on end, night after night and day after day.........

After wasting three weeks with a PM that was deaf and dumb it was the only action worthy

No, i'm not kidding. I understand the frustration you'd go through in that situation - However, something like that is the problem of the PM, it's not the owners fault that the PM put someone in the property who always has parties.

Something you have to remember is that tenancy checks only go so far, you cannot judge ones true personality until they are in the property. Admittedly the PM of your neighbours should've done something, but it doesn't mean you have to call an owner at midnight that could possibly have no idea of the situation. Calling at a more reasonable hour could've worked just as well.

Plus as Perp pointed out, the only thing the PM can do is tell the tenants to shush and not cause a nuisance. If they pay their rent on time and do not damage the property or breach the lease it's more or less out of their control.

 

[Perp]

Plus as Perp pointed out, the only thing the PM can do is tell the tenants to shush and not cause a nuisance.

The PM could, if they really felt the need, report the complaint to the tenant, but I don't think the PM should even ask the tenant to do anything about it, let alone "tell" them. The issue has nothing to do with the tenancy agreement/lease, and if the tenant took the landlord to Tribunal claiming harassment, I think they'd get a pretty sympathetic hearing. Just as with the tenant's debts to others, marital problems, tattoos, and ethnicity, their social conduct - insofar as it doesn't breach the lease - is none of the landlord's (and thus PM's) business. I think any landlord who raises any issues unrelated to the lease is risking getting absolutely crucified at Tribunal (landlord breach of "quiet enjoyment" - ie you have to leave the tenant in peace if they're complying with the lease agreement), and potentially creating liability with regards to breach of anti-discrimination and privacy provisions.

 

[melbmeg]

I thought most leases contained clauses requiring tenants not to cause a nuisance to the neighbours, in which case it is a matter between the landlord and tenant?

 

[jaycee]

Dazz, to tell you the truth - I don't know, which is why I did not state these opinions. The point I was trying to make wasn't that the PM is responsible to rectify the situation per se, my point was that the PM should not have given out the Landlords personal details.



Not sure about what you mean in your first sentence?

Agree if they are working with you, keep them, however if they're giving out your personal information this is a big no, no. Obviously they're not wanting to spend the time on the situation themselves, which is what they're employed to do (If it is something in their control). This would be enough for me to fire them.

Sacking an agent and taking up a better one, doesn't give them more strength - If anything it could be less as the new agent would be working their butt off to show how good they are.



No, i'm not kidding. I understand the frustration you'd go through in that situation - However, something like that is the problem of the PM, it's not the owners fault that the PM put someone in the property who always has parties.

Something you have to remember is that tenancy checks only go so far, you cannot judge ones true personality until they are in the property. Admittedly the PM of your neighbours should've done something, but it doesn't mean you have to call an owner at midnight that could possibly have no idea of the situation. Calling at a more reasonable hour could've worked just as well.

Plus as Perp pointed out, the only thing the PM can do is tell the tenants to shush and not cause a nuisance. If they pay their rent on time and do not damage the property or breach the lease it's more or less out of their control.

That's all well and good when the first person you call does something.

When they do not, but you still need the problem sovled, the obvious thing is to either repeat the same action, or do somethng more effective... You could even say "I tried calling your PM first as I didnt' think it fair to just call you, but they obviously dont care, so I figured you might might to know as well"

And what do you know ?

1 phone call and problem solved....

amazing

 

[cmason]

Rightly so? You evicted somebody on the basis that they were the victim of an assault? The Tribunal would have mopped the floor with you if the tenant had fought it.

As chilliblue has said, there are enough problems that you do have to deal with, without taking on extras.

I evicted the tenant for having wild alcohol fueled parities till 3am in the morning attracting people and involving activities which made the neighbors fear for their safety let alone be able to sleep. So I don't believe I would of had any issue at a Tribunal as I read all the rules thoroughly before doing so and went through the required procedure.

In this case I was the PM as it was and is self managed so I wasn't taking on any extra and had no problem doing so, I now have a tenant in that particular IP which has been there 5 years and I barely hear boo from

EDIT: Found a reference to the rule I would have looked at:

From the bible required by all landlords and tenants in Vic "Renting a Home - A guide for Tenants and Landlords" provided by Consumer Affairs Victoria, page 23 under the section "When the Landlord or Agent wants to end a Tenancy" in the table "Reason for giving a 'Notice to Vacate to Tenant/s of Premises'"

Reason 2: Tenant or tenant's visitor put neighbors in danger. Minimum notice required: Immediate notice

 

[chilliblue]

Not sure about what you mean in your first sentence?

Never trust the comments from someone who requires something from epecially so if they are emotionally involved.

The PM may not have forwarded contact details and to terminate a contract based on a assumption only is a bit harsh.

 

[Lil Skater]

This is true if they are being dangerous. If the next door neighbour has had drugs there with their party and are threatening neighbours you can, but if they are just really loud and have some drunks there isn't much as they haven't damaged the property. In saying this there is some leases that say if the tenant causes a nuisance etc, they can shut up or get out basically.

Jaycee, while it did work - it doesn't make it any less rude, plus a public nuisance should be reported to the police, not the LL at midnight.

 

[Lil Skater]

The PM may not have forwarded contact details and to terminate a contract based on a assumption only is a bit harsh.

This is why I said "IF" they had then I would terminate the contract on the spot.

Talk to the PM and see if it were them, if so I would be terminating the contract and possibly reporting them for a breach of my privacy, I don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry having my contact details and one of the reasons I employ a PM is so people do not ring me with complaints and don't know who I am. If it were the other PM I'd be reporting them for giving out my details from RP Data which is meant for agents only.