Not all occupants listed on the lease

[jimlenno]

Recently I have discovered that not all the occupants living in my IP are listed on the lease. The situation is the property was rented to a single mum, and now a guy has arrived on the scene.

I wrote to the PM stating the new occupant should be listed, and RTA amended, but PM advises this is not required or necessary as the original tenant can take full responsibility??

It will give me some peace of mind getting it amended, and covers both the LL and the tenants legally, however I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this.... What would you do?

Jim

 

[thatbum]

Get the PM to ask the tenants for a new lease? Ignore the PM's "advice"?

 

[wylie]

Get the new chap on the lease. If your tenant leaves, you have someone living in your house with nothing legal between you.

Your PM sounds like a wally.

 

[Joe D]

The situation is the property was rented to a single mum, and now a guy has arrived on the scene.

.... What would you do?

Jim

You and the single mum probably have an equal idea of "how long the guy will be on the scene................?"

However, if the current tenant wants to renew their lease at the end of their current term then it is reasonable for you to to ask for all adult tenants to be included on the lease renewal.

There is no obligation for boyfriends / girlfriends to be on a current lease and I think it is unreasonable to expect anyone to force a person to amend a current lease based on hearsay / conjecture (eg. the guy may be maintaining an alternative property until he is sure this is a permanent arrangement ...............)

 

[SeafordSunshine]

as a landlord you are spreading your risk..

Dear Jimlenno,

if you have more than one adult on your lease, I think you would be spreading your risk!
Also perhaps ask him to fill in an application for tenancy?
simply to protect you

I hope this helps

 

[wylie]

You and the single mum probably have an equal idea of "how long the guy will be on the scene................?"

However, if the current tenant wants to renew their lease at the end of their current term then it is reasonable for you to to ask for all adult tenants to be included on the lease renewal.

There is no obligation for boyfriends / girlfriends to be on a current lease and I think it is unreasonable to expect anyone to force a person to amend a current lease based on hearsay / conjecture (eg. the guy may be maintaining an alternative property until he is sure this is a permanent arrangement ...............)

If the boyfriend/girlfriend is living full time in the house, then I'd see this as a big issue if they are not on the lease. I'm not sure about the "obligation" but we had a case where two tenants took in a boarder/friend to help pay the rent. He behaved badly causing neighbours to bring police into the equation. We suggested to the original two they move out (we offered to break the lease) so they didn't get into further trouble due to their new friend.

We had no control over the mate moving. They all left the same day and went their separate ways, but had the friend decided he didn't want to leave, we would have had him living in our house, already a problem and we didn't even know his name.

I'd be getting every adult onto the lease if they are actually living there (as opposed to staying over a couple of nights a week and living elsewhere).

 

[Pixie]

how do u know this guy is not a FWB and is at a "sleepover"??

but anyhow, if i was you, I would include his name on the lease just to cover yourself...

 

[bmulyawan]

will insurance not cover this if non-listed tenant do the damage?

 

[fokas]

I'm curious as to how you discovered this fact?

 

[jimlenno]

I'm curious as to how you discovered this fact?

We used to live there so know the neighbours well, the new bloke isn't a visitor. What is interesting about this, is how it might be easy for the PM to not actually check or be able to tell who is living in a property permanently.

Jim

 

[jimlenno]

will insurance not cover this if non-listed tenant do the damage?

Good point, I will have a look at the insurance policy, usually they have a clause that talks about damage caused by tenants and 'visitors' but probably you are stuffed if the listed tenant moves out and you are left with a squatter

 

[macca446]

What happens if she changes partners overnight ,going to put all her male friends on lease as long as they are not long term I would not bother.

 

[Lil Skater]

I would. I can't think of any cons of adding him.

One pro would be that you'd now have two people responsible for the full rental amount.

 

[Joe D]

I would. I can't think of any cons of adding him.

One pro would be that you'd now have two people responsible for the full rental amount.

Okay, so what if jimleno now instructs his PM to make sure Mr.X is signed up on the lease. How does this play out using the following as a hypothetical situation?

letter from PM
" Dear Tenant , I understand that a Mr X is now residing at the property. Please arrange to have him included on a new lease ... etc"

response from tenant
" Dear PM, I don't understand where you get your information from, but Mr X does not reside here although stays on occasions. Mr X has his own property and neither he nor I are prepared to sign any new lease with both our names...."

The ball is now in PM/Landlord's court. How does this play out apart from the angst already created?

 

[wylie]

I guess if that response came back from the tenant, there is no more to be done except set up camp in a car outside with binoculars and lots of donuts and coffee...

But I'd guess such a letter would not be sent. It is a bit presumptuous and easy to be refuted. I'm curious how a PM would approach this though.

 

[Joe D]

I guess if that response came back from the tenant, there is no more to be done except set up camp in a car outside with binoculars and lots of donuts and coffee...

Haha.... you have been watching too many US cop shows .......!

But I'd guess such a letter would not be sent. It is a bit presumptuous and easy to be refuted. I'm curious how a PM would approach this though.

Me too. How would a PM or landlord be able to act on this unless the tenant had openly admitted that Mr X was residing?

Even with the donuts and coffee, 7 sleepovers just suggests an active sexlife not necessarily an extra tenancy!

 

[Lil Skater]

If the tenant denies that he's living there, there isn't much that can be done.

A routine inspection may pick up another occupant, but it depends if they're trying to be sneaky or just didn't think about adding the new guy to the lease.

 

[crest133]

Always better to cover yourself in property management. Grey areas cause problems so better to minimise them. Suggest you request the PM write to the tenant advising the PM policy and necessity of any new arrivals to apply to be on the lease. Any lack of co-operation from the tenant can be noted and given consideration come lease renewal time, or those other times when what goes around comes around. If you don't control your property, someone else will soon enough.
Cheers
crest133

 

[Curlytops]

We do not add new people to the lease. We have them fill out an application and get them approved as borders but the person on the lease is still responsible. If they want the other person/s on the lease everyone must move out as if they were vacating a new condition report done and then they can have a new lease drawn up with all parties on the lease. A pm will only know if someone else is living at the property if they are advised or find out at the routine inspections which in victoria are only every 6 months.

 

[Jacaranda]

It doesn't matter what the PM says it is your property.

I am assuming your property is in QLD. The Tenancy agreement at Item 15 states the number of people that can reside at the property, so she may be in breach of her lease, so a good PM would call the tenant to discuss.

The new occupant should apply to reside at the property so you know who they are, where they work are they listed on TICA etc, then it is up to the current tenant if she wants them on the lease.