Now is the time to buy

[Indifference]

On that logic whats your view when sentiment is low?

I'll chip into this one as well...

My view when sentiment is low, bargains are probably in abundance or about to be....


It worth the DD effort to check assets out in such circumstances, IMO, unless of course property is the only form of investing you care to recognize, then you have only one asset cycle of interest.... Not I...

 

[tcocaro]

So let me get this straight... buy low sell high? Go against the herd mentality?

Just checking... sometimes I get confused reading this forum and get the impression most simply try to lead the herd rather than go against it...

Not sure what "DD" means (sure its obvious once you say it) but this is a property forum... I tend to discuss property on a property forum rather than other investment classes...

There are many investor types... those who specialise in one area and those who invest more broadly. There is no one right way...

However I wouldnt like to see my stock broker try his hand at property development just because the market is volatile for instance... nor vice versa...

I simply dont think if you approach any investment strategy as a full time job\business its realistic to jump from one investment class to another... I can only imagine my bank managers face if I walked in saying I would like 3m for leveraged equities as I plan to try my hand in shares...

That being said there are those who do it, and good on em... but those who try to specialise in one class say property and learn to deal with the ups, downs and sideways shouldnt be frowned upon just because they dont packup and jump into minerals...

I'll chip into this one as well...

My view when sentiment is low, bargains are probably in abundance or about to be....


It worth the DD effort to check assets out in such circumstances, IMO, unless of course property is the only form of investing you care to recognize, then you have only one asset cycle of interest.... Not I...

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

That being said there are those who do it, and good on em... but those who try to specialise in one class say property and learn to deal with the ups, downs and sideways shouldnt be frowned upon just because they dont packup and jump into minerals...

Spot on there is definately nothing to be ashamed of for specialising in a single asset class. Doing this in an intelligent maner, one will be able to spot trends long before the crowd, one should know the difference between price and value, one will have the increased ability to negotiate from a position of knowledge, one should be able to spot market arbitrage opportunities, etc etc

There is a sub group (which includes myself) that tends to 'flip around' moving between one asset class and another, but and i emphasise this, the work required to do this is more than double the time required to gain increased profeciency in a single asset class.

However there is always a downside, and the downside for the single asset class investor is: patience. All you eggs are in one basket, so when you swing that baseball bat, you had better be right (you have no diversification to back you up)

 

[Indifference]

Guys, first of all, I am not advocating a one size fits all investing strategy....this couldn't be further from the truth.

Nor am I advocating that it is "wrong" to just invest in ONE asset class... What I actually insinuated was that it is NOT financially intelligent to close the door on other asset classes as it denies you options & opportunities.

Does anyone have innate knowledge of property? NO. It is developed over time. Just like many people develop a understanding of more than ONE asset class. All I am saying is that a seasoned investor should keep an OPEN mind... oh my, that sounds like heresy around here...

For the record, I am a firm believer that PROPERTY is the investment END GAME.... but it is NOT the only game. That is why I have been a contributor on SS for over 7 yrs. But investing is not as Black & White as many espouse in these threads on SS....

Why does everyone always have to turn property investing into a cultist singular idealistic form of investing.... Forgive me for proffering an alternate and broader view, based on a sound understanding of more than just bricks & mortar. Oh dear, there I go again.... sounding like a heretic....

Did I mention I own & invest in RE myself.......oh my, how insolent of me...

 

[tcocaro]

You cannot say on one hand you that is Nor am I advocating that it is "wrong" to just invest in ONE asset class... and then on the other say on the otherWhat I actually insinuated was that it is NOT financially intelligent to close the door on other asset classes as it denies you options & opportunities.

A property developer, will not and should not simply start investing in shares once the market goes soft.

A stock broker, will not and should not start developing property once the share market goes volatile.

To say they have tunnel vision for doing so is just nonsense.

Why would someone who has analysed, researched and had experience in property then jump into commodity trading just because they hear on the news mining is all the rage?

I think a much better strategy for an experienced property investor is to look at other "markets" within property but not simply leave property.

Just as I would beleive a stock broker simply modifies their share investment mix in volatile times not simply pack up shop.

On the point you make Why does everyone always have to turn property investing into a cultist singular idealistic form of investing.... This comment has always baffled me... I dont for a single second think property is the deal form of investing. I simply find it confusing and plain weird that people who dont invest in property are arguing other forms of investment on a "property investors forum".

Its like me speaking on a share trading forum and saying "why dont you guys invest in property, shares arent the only way to go" and being told "we only care about shares here" and then me replying with Why does everyone always have to turn share investing into a cultist singular idealistic form of investing....

But to reiterate, I see nothing wrong in investing in multiple asset classes however I do think in order to expand you need to specialise. Very few companies get to a size by dabbling on everything. (some do but they have different departments, people etc its almost unheard of that the same person\group buy property one day and shares the next).

You need to ask if there is almost no-one out there in the rich list doing it, why?

Guys, first of all, I am not advocating a one size fits all investing strategy....this couldn't be further from the truth.

Nor am I advocating that it is "wrong" to just invest in ONE asset class... What I actually insinuated was that it is NOT financially intelligent to close the door on other asset classes as it denies you options & opportunities.

Does anyone have innate knowledge of property? NO. It is developed over time. Just like many people develop a understanding of more than ONE asset class. All I am saying is that a seasoned investor should keep an OPEN mind... oh my, that sounds like heresy around here...

For the record, I am a firm believer that PROPERTY is the investment END GAME.... but it is NOT the only game. That is why I have been a contributor on SS for over 7 yrs. But investing is not as Black & White as many espouse in these threads on SS....

Why does everyone always have to turn property investing into a cultist singular idealistic form of investing.... Forgive me for proffering an alternate and broader view, based on a sound understanding of more than just bricks & mortar. Oh dear, there I go again.... sounding like a heretic....

Did I mention I own & invest in RE myself.......oh my, how insolent of me...

 

[Indifference]

You cannot say on one hand you that is Nor am I advocating that it is "wrong" to just invest in ONE asset class... and then on the other say on the otherWhat I actually insinuated was that it is NOT financially intelligent to close the door on other asset classes as it denies you options & opportunities.

I can and I did...

A property developer, will not and should not simply start investing in shares once the market goes soft.

A stock broker, will not and should not start developing property once the share market goes volatile.

To say they have tunnel vision for doing so is just nonsense.

Nonsense, indeed...

Why would someone who has analysed, researched and had experience in property then jump into commodity trading just because they hear on the news mining is all the rage?

Ahh, diversification, capital reinvested into rising markets etc... drivel really.

I think a much better strategy for an experienced property investor is to look at other "markets" within property but not simply leave property.

Just as I would beleive a stock broker simply modifies their share investment mix in volatile times not simply pack up shop.

Life would be boring if we all agreed on everything, all of the time...

On the point you make Why does everyone always have to turn property investing into a cultist singular idealistic form of investing.... This comment has always baffled me... I dont for a single second think property is the deal form of investing. I simply find it confusing and plain weird that people who dont invest in property are arguing other forms of investment on a "property investors forum".

Its like me speaking on a share trading forum and saying "why dont you guys invest in property, shares arent the only way to go" and being told "we only care about shares here" and then me replying with Why does everyone always have to turn share investing into a cultist singular idealistic form of investing....

Actually I do, and we talk about shares, commodities, derivatives & property...how insolent. Maybe we live on different planets. I know many people that can hold a conversation on more than one topic/subject/asset class...

But to reiterate, I see nothing wrong in investing in multiple asset classes however I do think in order to expand you need to specialise. Very few companies get to a size by dabbling on everything. (some do but they have different departments, people etc its almost unheard of that the same person\group buy property one day and shares the next).

You need to ask if there is almost no-one out there in the rich list doing it, why?

Ahh, last time I checked the wealthy generally own something in every asset class. Why? Capital protection, diversification and leveraging off rising markets.... but I shouldn't cloud the discussion with reality.

Actually, I know absolutely no-one that invests in more than one asset class. (<--OK, this is a lie.... ) It must be too complicated or something. Maybe I'm the first one! How about that then....

 

[tcocaro]

??

Drink some herbal tea and relax... what a load of ____ you just spewed in this post.

And when I say I know very few people who invest professionally in completely different asset classes that I true.... I know of no property developer who actively invest in shares, no stockbroker who actively develops.

You keep thinking mum and dad investor, or a professional on a high paying job investing in property and trading shares...

I am thinking above that level.

Im off to talk about chalk on the cheese forum....

I can and I did...



Nonsense, indeed...



Ahh, diversification, capital reinvested into rising markets etc... drivel really.



Life would be boring if we all agreed on everything, all of the time...



Actually I do, and we talk about shares, commodities, derivatives & property...how insolent. Maybe we live on different planets. I know many people that can hold a conversation on more than one topic/subject/asset class...



Ahh, last time I checked the wealthy generally own something in every asset class. Why? Capital protection, diversification and leveraging off rising markets.... but I shouldn't cloud the discussion with reality.

Actually, I know absolutely no-one that invests in more than one asset class. (<--OK, this is a lie.... ) It must be too complicated or something. Maybe I'm the first one! How about that then....

 

[Deltaberry]

Actually I do, and we talk about shares, commodities, derivatives & property...how insolent. Maybe we live on different planets. I know many people that can hold a conversation on more than one topic/subject/asset class...

Ahh, last time I checked the wealthy generally own something in every asset class. Why? Capital protection, diversification and leveraging off rising markets.... but I shouldn't cloud the discussion with reality.

Actually, I know absolutely no-one that invests in more than one asset class. (<--OK, this is a lie.... ) It must be too complicated or something. Maybe I'm the first one! How about that then....

That's rubbish.

Do you think hotel operators go do mining businesses just because tourism is dying? Wealthy people own assets in many PASSIVE asset classes such as real estate, shares, derivatives etc.

But they don't go from being developers to say mobile phone manufacturers.

 

[MIW]

Value and price of assets

Ahh, last time I checked the wealthy generally own something in every asset class. Why? Capital protection, diversification and leveraging off rising markets.... but I shouldn't cloud the discussion with reality.

Actually, I know absolutely no-one that invests in more than one asset class. (<--OK, this is a lie.... ) It must be too complicated or something. Maybe I'm the first one! How about that then....

I totally agree with you Indifference but you maybe a bit too sophisticated for some. I too understand the difference between value and price (or currency as I call it) and have diversified or switched from some asset classes. It doesn't mean I don't like property, or stocks, or it doesn't mean I like gold or silver, etc... All it means is that once an asset becomes, in my opinion, undervalued I may buy it, and when it becomes overvalued I may sell it, and so on...
I think I mentined once before that the real wealthy invest into many things (businesses, property, stocks, mines, commodities, art, jewellery, etc...).
When I mentioned that wealth is transferred not lost most disagreed, so I just provided an explanation between value and price. I suppose since this is mainly a property forum that's what most people wish to talk about here.
So you are not alone..... I think wealth transfer is happening right now but many people aren't aware of it.
A person once asked me how I made all this equity? And my reply was switching between asset classes as in history all assets become overvalued, revert to its mean and become undervalued and so on and on.... However, as you say you need constant education on becoming this kind of investor and fortunes would be made if many people knew how to do it.... Good luck though and don't give up on some of those negative comments.

 

[Deltaberry]

Have you been a mobile phone developer and a mine operator?

The only people I see who do that are small cap, unsuccessful ASX listed companies that try to chase the trend of the day. Hardly wealthy in my books.

 

[tcocaro]

Delta... the problem is when you and me say "invest in property" we think, research an off-market transaction with current and future uplift, negotiate development applications to improve value, engage in consultants to maximise rental return, decide on a mix between commercial and resi, build, rent\sell and after the 2-3 years hope to make a decent one-off or ongoing return.

When MIW and co say invest in property they think, buy off the plan, settle and rent.

But who knows perhaps MIW is a business genius who goes from building apartment complexes to organising seed capital to start up an IT company to then seeking the necessary exploration licences to start a minining venture in the pilbara.

They mention understanding the difference of value and price with such authority. However, although I no doubt beleive they understand their technical definitions I doubt they could see value in real life examples effectively. This is because seeing "value" in any asset class requires more time\skill than flicking the pages of the fin review or watching your money on fox. It requires years of experience through dedication and specialisation not bouncing from one fad to the next.

Have you been a mobile phone developer and a mine operator?

The only people I see who do that are small cap, unsuccessful ASX listed companies that try to chase the trend of the day. Hardly wealthy in my books.