Paul Clitheroe vs David Koch

[kero]

Both are financial advisers, writers of books and apparently have a huge audience or listeners. That's so much I know about them.

if you would pick one to follow, whose advise would you choose? and why?

I am incline to choose Paul as he is still very much in the industry compared to David. However as part of ipac, Paul obviously has vested interested in giving financial advice while David just have a website with some topical blogs.

your thoughts?

 

[agent007]

What sort of advise are you after? What's that you are trying to achieve?

Both are financial advisers, writers of books and apparently have a huge audience or listeners. That's so much I know about them.

if you would pick one to follow, whose advise would you choose? and why?

I am incline to choose Paul as he is still very much in the industry compared to David. However as part of ipac, Paul obviously has vested interested in giving financial advice while David just have a website with some topical blogs.

your thoughts?

 

[kero]

I am not seeking any specific advice. just thought I throw a census to the floor who has a wider following especially with Paul and David's financial experience.

Was contemplating purchasing either David's book 'Creating and Building Real Wealth With Lots of Love and Laugh' or Paul's book 'Control your own super fund' (or both).

 

[agent007]

I am not seeking any specific advice. just thought I throw a census to the floor who has a wider following especially with Paul and David's financial experience.

Was contemplating purchasing either David's book 'Creating and Building Real Wealth With Lots of Love and Laugh' or Paul's book 'Control your own super fund' (or both).

I wouldn't follow any of them however, wouldn't mind reading their books if didn't have others books in the queue

 

[bashworth]

I prefer the "Barefoot Investor'

 

[geoffw]

I'd agree with the others. I'd prefer to read a book based on the quality of the knowledge given and readability of the subject matter rather than the celebrity status of the authors. There's a lot of good books out there.

 

[alexlee]

Also remember that if a commentator appeals to 'most' people, and 'most' people are poor and living payday to payday...... So they might appeal to lots of people because of their ability to make basic concepts (controlling spending, saving money during christmas, that sort of thing) understandable, not because they have good investing advice or strategies.

If your aim is to become wealthy, you're by definition aiming to be NOT like the masses.

Maccas appeals to a lot of people. Doesn't mean it's necessarily good food.

 

[china]

Also remember that if a commentator appeals to 'most' people, and 'most' people are poor and living payday to payday...... So they might appeal to lots of people because of their ability to make basic concepts (controlling spending, saving money during christmas, that sort of thing) understandable, not because they have good investing advice or strategies.

I don't think "most" people are poor and living payday to payday. Not in Australia anyway. It is a land where you cannot starve to death or be homeless unless you choose to or have some form of mental illness. There is abundant employment opportunities. Everyone has an iPad and has access to a private car. Everyone can afford to booze and smoke.

Me I like reading this forum for good practical advice on everything.

 

[geoffw]

There's an awful lot of people who spend everything they earn plus a little more than that on credit cards. I used to be one of them on a good pay packet.

 

[china]

There's an awful lot of people who spend everything they earn plus a little more than that on credit cards. I used to be one of them on a good pay packet.

But in this country you can do that and still be living in a nice house, have jetstar holidays and plenty of booze and cigs. And I am not convinced that the majority of wage earners are living on credit and debt. I earn a reasonable paypacket but spend little, comparatively speaking - I do blow $15k per year eating out. I suspect that I am not totally in the minority.

 

[redwing]

Hi Kero

Noel Whittaker is still active also, on the web,paper and radio

He was pre Clitheroe or Koch and his books Making Money Made Simple and More Money where the first 'general finance' books I read

He's apparently authored 19 books now. More recently there has been Winning Property Tax Strategies by Noel Whittaker and Julia Hartman (BANTACS)

As well as

Saving tax on your Investment Property by Noel Whittaker and Julia Hartman (BANTACS)

And more recently Aged Care Who Cares? by Noel Whittaker and Rachel Lane.

He's worth a look also

 

[Kinnon Bell]

But in this country you can do that and still be living in a nice house, have jetstar holidays and plenty of booze and cigs. And I am not convinced that the majority of wage earners are living on credit and debt. I earn a reasonable paypacket but spend little, comparatively speaking - I do blow $15k per year eating out. I suspect that I am not totally in the minority.

Why are you not convinced? Just because you are living one way does not mean the majority are.

With my work I was in a position where I could see the ins and outs of peoples' financial lives. I was able to see a good cross section of the country and an overwhelming majority are living pay day to pay day or not even that, they weren't even making it to pay day.

Really sad to see because as a whole, the community does not seem to have the financial smarts about them or if they do they just want to live in the now.

 

[china]

Our community at large can afford to live in the now.

This is Australia. Many people cross hazardous oceans in leaky boats so that they can get benefits of Australian citizenship -free health care, free education, subsidized child care, subsidised housing. In the worst scenario, you will receive a generous handout and all your essentials are looked after. So I don't think that living from paycheck to paycheck is too unreasonable a lifestyle if you are an Australian citizen. Having said that Kesse, I come across a lot of people who present as being more financially worse off than they really are. Corolla drivers who fly business class. People wearing very old clothes staying in $300/night hotel rooms, etc.

 

[TMNT]

this is my line of thought, (probably not the best but I cant help it)

assume Bob and bill are the same age, same industry, same income,

Im bob, my best friend is bill,

Bob decides he wants to save for an investment property, goes out once per week, happy with a cheaper phone, doesnt buy the latest and greatest of gadgets, manages to buy 3 Ips in 6 years,

Bill on the other hand thinks life is all about spending all your salary before payday, buys the latest gadgets because Apple tells him to go buy the latest iphone 5, ipad, whilst he must go out to the latest designer restaurants and so on

there net income from PAYG in 5 years is the same for both, yet Bob has sacrified a fair bit and gotten ahead in life with 3 ips, whilst bill hasnt got a cent to his name except for the latest gadges and a beer gut full of designer foods and drinks, and is now complaining how tough it is to save a deposit and how expensive property prices are.

Bob ( ie me) gives absolutely no sympathy to bill, and tells him to stop complaining, he made a choice as to his lifestyle, so he must accept the consqeuences

 

[china]

this is my line of thought, (probably not the best but I cant help it)

assume Bob and bill are the same age, same industry, same income,

Im bob, my best friend is bill,

Bob decides he wants to save for an investment property, goes out once per week, happy with a cheaper phone, doesnt buy the latest and greatest of gadgets, manages to buy 3 Ips in 6 years,

Bill on the other hand thinks life is all about spending all your salary before payday, buys the latest gadgets because Apple tells him to go buy the latest iphone 5, ipad, whilst he must go out to the latest designer restaurants and so on

there net income from PAYG in 5 years is the same for both, yet Bob has sacrified a fair bit and gotten ahead in life with 3 ips, whilst bill hasnt got a cent to his name except for the latest gadges and a beer gut full of designer foods and drinks, and is now complaining how tough it is to save a deposit and how expensive property prices are.

Bob ( ie me) gives absolutely no sympathy to bill, and tells him to stop complaining, he made a choice as to his lifestyle, so he must accept the consqeuences

To continue this analogy.

Bill does not expect any sympathy from Bob. In fact he thinks that Bob is a bit strange and must be wasting or gambling his money away because despite being on the same wage, Bob has nothing to show for it - he uses a non-smart phone, drives a 12 year old car and flies Jetstar to the Gold Coast as an exotic getaway. He finds Bob talking about strange concepts such as equity, LVRs and rental yields.

Bill complains about expensive houses but really enjoys life with fine dining, business class travel and luxurious hotels. He does not mind paying $1000 per week rent to live in a harbour view apartment with all the mod cons. He shouts Bob to an eight course degustation menu every three months.

Sadly, Bill and Bob are both hit by a big truck and pass away within minutes of each other.

Bill leaves behind 50k of credit card debt and no assets. Bob leaves behind a 2 mil IP portfolio with 80% LVR, with the contact details of multiple property managers and tradies in his trousers. As they reach the pearly gates and greet St. Peter, Bill is still smiling but Bob is still concerned about the rental vacancies of his IPs.

St. Peter asks Bill and Bob - if you had your time again, would you have done anything differently?

 

[Ski-bum]

RE: Bill Vs Bob. Thus you need to balance living in the now with investing for the future. No good either extreme. Which way to balance towards... is the challenge. Life is full of compromises/balances and that's what makes everyone so different.

A non investment analogy - enjoying yummy fine dining food (usually cooked with lots of butter and salt) vs bland healthy steamed veggies. I'm no great cook, but salt and butter do make things much tastier. eg. we're off to Peking Duck at Old Kingdom tonight, very tasty but not something I'd like to do often as is so unhealthy...

 

[TMNT]

St. Peter asks Bill and Bob - if you had your time again, would you have done anything differently?

ABSOLUTELY!! no disagreements from me,

I have a friend who is 43, lives like a king!! and I mean king, on a salary of $1000 per week after tax, catches taxis because he cant be bothered walking, (has no interest in fashion or gadgets though), went on 3 international holidays in 3 months , will take girlfriends overseas and pays for everything, currently a $40k-$50k credit card debt, no cars, no houses, he'll easily drop $400 per night on alcohol and clubbign even though he has a credit card bill on his desk at home,

however if the world blew up tomorrow, he would have had a far better life then me in terms of lifestyle,

that being said, you cant really plan the end of your life unless you have a terminal illness or you are of that age,

unfortunately, for my friend, he will be working until the day he retires, or even longer, whilst I will be retired before he does!! Ive made sacrifices, and although there is no guarantees, id rather be in my shoes then his at the same age

 

[TPI]

I don't follow Paul Clitheroe or David Koch (or Scott Pape), but do read Noel Whittaker's newsletter.

Re. Bill and Bob, tough call, but I don't think endless consumption is the answer, nor is endless asset accumulation.

The parable of the Mexican fisherman sums things up well (see link below, it's been quoted often and apparently originally came from Heinrich Boll, winner of the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1972):

http://www.gardenbetty.com/2013/02/the-parable-of-the-mexican-fisherman/

 

[china]

unfortunately, for my friend, he will be working until the day he retires, or even longer, whilst I will be retired before he does!! Ive made sacrifices, and although there is no guarantees, id rather be in my shoes then his at the same age

Some find working to be a joy and an essential part of life, as much as eating and sleeping. So they are happy to work until they physically and mentally cannot. In that scenario, they would then see it normal to spend everything they make through their work. Work hard, play hard.

 

[china]

Both Koch and Clitheroe are multi-multi millionaires. I would like to see both of them write a book on how to:

1. get rich by dispensing generic financial advice to the masses
2. exploit media to get rich
3. obtain a high profile for personal wealth building

These are their true areas of expertise in which they are leaders in their field.