Protecting your savings with a spouse with unrestrained spending habits?

A friend is currently in the middle of an increasingly acrimonious property settlement following separating from his wife late last year. What initially was intended from both sides was a simple amicable resolution, but his ex soon escalated things introducing lawyers etc (probably as a result of other parties suggesting she could get more). There are no children and both had jobs with similar incomes etc. Hers is a simple PAYE job whereas his is small business and hence variable plus the business has value too. She has made some outlandish claims but after some preliminary legal posturing it will probably ultimately be resolved not too far away from the 50:50 split that was initially the intention - less the legal fees of course.

With an earlier house they owned they clearly split everything 50:50, with a joint account for joint expenses and maintaining their own individual accounts. They upgraded houses several years ago (this property is now the bulk of the settlement value). When they went to the new house they then adopted a mortgage where all your money goes into it and you pay you expenses out of it (can't think of the official type of account right now), so as to minimise interest etc.

He was more of a saver whereas she was a spender - when he tried to discuss budgetting she apparently would stick her fingers in her ears and claim she needed all her consumer items. When they has separate accounts this was easily shown as she often had next to nothing in her account while he had quite a bit. But difficult to demonstrate this with one joint account where the nature of expenses isn't clearly identifiable. So even with a 50:50 split she will profit from his 'saving'.

Anyway, the point is, part of the discussions we've had over many a beer since has been how he could've 'protected' himself anyway. We presume that even had they maintained separate accounts she would've still been entitled to claim against his account, given they'd been married for maybe 4-5 years. Every other form of asset he could've directed money into would be readily identifiable as well. Apart from more complex schemes, the only things we could come with were basically hiding cash under the mattress, as it were, which would depreciate over the long term, or less readily identified appreciating things like collectables like wine or coins or art, or maybe gold?

Of course, he could've just lived it up and spent vicariously as well...but I thought it was an interesting point to discuss. Is there anyway he could have 'squirrelled' money away? I suspect in future he will be far more circumspect and probably insist on prenups or cohabitation agreements PRIOR to any future relationship but that wasn't possible after the fact...
 
Dear Apocalypse,

Your story reminds me of a case where the lawyers for the lady tried to persuade her to use them to ask more than what was agreed in the proper pre-nup agreement under Property Relationships Act when the relationship was breaking up. The lawyer apparently told her that legally she was entitled more than what was set out in the pre-nup.

Luckily, the break-up was not so acrimonious. The woman flatly refused the lawyers offer, and said that she was happy with what she was entitled under the prenup and just told them to go ahead in legal work splitting the assets as per the pre-nup

What this made me realise is that men have to try harder not to pi## the woman if the relationship is going sour otherwise with so many lawyers out there who are looking for work (billing hours) will try to persuade woman to engage them to get as much from the men, especially if they are rich.

[I am not discriminating one sex over the other, or forcing men to be more agreeable to the woman but suggesting a way in which a man may preserve his assets under current legal environment]


Another way of preserving your assets may be learning to maintain a good functional relationship that will last forever because you cannot protect your assets absolutely from your partner/spouse in case of break up unless you hide them overseas without the knowledge of other person.


One couple who divorced after 20 years of marriage, the woman who was the breadwinner saved $100K under her mattress without the knowledge of her husband, and that $100K was saved from the courts. But throughout the court proceedings the man had suspicion that woman had more money than what was laid out in court documents, but could not prove that she had them so she was spared from splitting that $100K.

[PROTECTING PRE-RELATIONSHIP ASSETS]
In case of any future break up that involves asset splitting, I will probably write up loan document setting out my parents as lender and me as borrower every time I buy a property and make them put a caveat, so that money is spared from split between me and my partner in the future because it will be considered as loan moneys legally. in this case you probably need big trust between you and your parents.

[ASSETS IN RELATIONSHIP]
I will work very hard to preserve the relationship but not in view of keeping the assets but to have fantastic relationship.

And if it's over, I would like to be over ASAP so I will be happy to walk away with 50-50, even if my contributions were considerably more.

If the other party wants more, I won't argue. Let them have it and let me get on with my life. Just give me rent for 6 months + living expenses for 6 months to get back on my feet again. Why do I want to live with bitter emotions and stress ruining my day for? I don't need very much to survive and I will build my assets again.
 
Here we go....
A thread like this will invariably open up a pandoras box.
You will get the 'his' perspectives, and the 'her' perspectives and never the twain will meet !

One failsafe measure would be to stick to casual relationships and get a vasectomy.... which would tend to reflect how our society is anyway, with the declining birth rate as well as more singles living on their own.

kp
 
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unfortunately, that's how the system works in the this country. i was married for 10 years to a bloke who loved big game hunting. a very expensive sport. when the divorce was going thru i calculated that he'd spent in excess of $250,000 on his "sport" over the years.

i agree that i was on a slightly lesser income than he was, but i also ran the household (cleaning, washing, cooking etc) by myself.

but - at the end of the day - the money is spent and there is no claim on it. frustrating, but that is how it goes.

he was also trying to drag out the settlement as he didn't want to part with a dime of "his hard earned money". i did manage to wrangle a quick settlement at the end (for a pittance) because i had some serious dirt on him ... and made him aware that i wasn't afraid to use it.
 
he could have just opened up what in the banking industry calls a "running away from home account", which is simply a bank account in his own name with a different bank to that which the "family" banks at, with all the statements sent to his work or PO Box. Banks are not allowed to disclose who has bank accounts with them, so it wouldn't be found unless he told someone
 
if i was going into a relationship/marriage with a man who had significantly more than me, i would WANT to sign a prenup. i wouldn't feel like we were on an equal power footing if we didn't. i mean, it's horrible and unromantic to think of it that way, but money can bring power issues into a relationship. plus i'd never want my partner to ever, even for a second, be able to entertain the thought that i was with him for any other reason than that i loved him dearly. my two cents before this thread gets nasty and/or locked :p
 
are pre-nups a good thing i wonder?...

they say that if you fail to plan you plan to fail, but if you plan in case you fail do you fail to fail? :D
 
he could have just opened up what in the banking industry calls a "running away from home account", which is simply a bank account in his own name with a different bank to that which the "family" banks at, with all the statements sent to his work or PO Box. Banks are not allowed to disclose who has bank accounts with them, so it wouldn't be found unless he told someone

Hi Joanna,

I love this idea. If ever the time comes where I'm in a serious relationship, then I'm going to set something like this up.

Hi luce.rocks,

I was lucky in that the last relationship I was in my gf was similar to yourself - and we split everything that we had fairly. We both sat down together and worked out who got what, without arguing. So I believe you when you say that's how you are *wink*. One of the 0.0000001% of women that is.

Mark
 
if your assets are in a trust before the relationship are they not protected?

it is my understanding that if a trust is made part way through a relationship, then these assets are not protected though.
 
Joanna,
The family court has power which will override bankings non disclosure regs.
Not against the bank, but against the party who is being forced to disclose all assets. Of course if you don't declare and get away with it, then you're in the clear, but if you get caught out there are penalties including incarcaration.
No point being forced into a homo relationship just because your hetro one failed.

Luce,
You are a rare breed !

kp
 
I would like to point out I am not trolling nor am I tryinbg to cast aspersions on either gender. I am also not the "friend" myself. The separation story is merely to set the scene for the discussion point. I certainly don't want this to deteriorate into a gender conflict...I suspect there are numerous examples of financially incompatible couples, which probably contributes to the breakdown of the relationship anyway.

We basically figured anything with a paper trail could be found, so the safest would be to stockpile cash...but potentially risky, as well as ultimately a depreciating form of investment. Of course, at one point we concluded the best option would've been secretly stockpiling beer. Although this may have been influenced by the fact we had run out of beer. After then deciding to slip down to the local pub the beer stockpiling solution lost its allure somewhat.
 
It sounds to me as though he should never have married her in the first place as they're financial habits are way too different. If you are a saver, marry a saver and if you are a spender, marry a spender or be prepared to change your habits.

An expensive lesson for him to learn.

Joanna, I thought that any money made during the marriage was fair game to the courts whether or not it is in a single name or joint names. To really get away with this, he would need to put into the account of a trusted friend/family member such as his mum or dad who would look after his interests over hers, and make himself a signatory to that account but not have his name on it anywhere. The family court would not be able to get a single red cent of it and the banks would not be able to disclose any information about it.

Cheers
Nat
 
To really get away with this, he would need to put into the account of a trusted friend/family member such as his mum or dad who would look after his interests over hers, and make himself a signatory to that account but not have his name on it anywhere.

and if you're going to go to such extremes of deviousness - what the heck would you be doing in such a relationship in the first place?
 
Joanna, I thought that any money made during the marriage was fair game to the courts whether or not it is in a single name or joint names. To really get away with this, he would need to put into the account of a trusted friend/family member such as his mum or dad who would look after his interests over hers, and make himself a signatory to that account but not have his name on it anywhere. The family court would not be able to get a single red cent of it and the banks would not be able to disclose any information about it.

Cheers
Nat

Hi Nat,

I really wouldn't know the in's and out's of the family court, but I have heard they have some clout...I just heard about these accounts that they called "running away from home accounts" and what they were used for when I was working in a bank quite some time ago, and it was clearly emphasised to use to use absolute discretion when calling the family home in case the account was a running away account...
 
and if you're going to go to such extremes of deviousness - what the heck would you be doing in such a relationship in the first place?

I totally agree - hence the first sentence of my original post :D. I reckon you should be a couple for a long enough time before getting married that you know if your partners spending/savings habits are either compatible with yours, or that you accept them as they are. My partner and I keep our own seperate accounts, so I certainly don't need a running away account myself, but you have to admit, some people might.

Joanna, I admit I don't know the ins and outs of the family court either, but when my dad almost married a much younger woman recently, I did a lot of research into how the courts see assets etc when a couple split. From what I read in the transcripts of various property settlements, it seemed that everything aquired during the course of the marriage was counted as joint property whether it was in one partners name, or both, so I presume that money squirrelled into one partner's account secretly would be counted as joint property if the courts found out about it, but I may be wrong.

Cheers
Nat
 
and if you're going to go to such extremes of deviousness - what the heck would you be doing in such a relationship in the first place?

I can think of a few:

- you love your partner, but don't/can't trust their spending habits (in that you acknowledge that you need a 'rainy day account' but know your partner can't save)

- you feel that the relationship is not going so well, but want to give it a go to see how things work out, but also acknowledge that it might not, so you start up such an account for the just in case. In a situation like this, I definitely would want to be looking at keeping as much of my hard earned for myself.

- buying jewelry for your mistress can be expensive *wink*

Some people might see it as being untrusting, I personally prefer to use the word realistic. Everything is usually all peaches and cream at the start, but there is also the very real possibility that things can deteriorate over time and some partners can become rather vindictive and nasty if things go bad.

There's no harm in protecting as much of what's yours if you can help it I reckon.

Mark
 
So even with a 50:50 split she will profit from his 'saving'.

Short answer. Yes.

That is just the way it goes when you have a life with someone.

Not everything can be quantified. The effort to acquire what one is owed is soul destroying.

Emotion is intangible.
Pain and hurt and cannot be calculated with an equation.
What if one was to take that attitude to money also?

If one accepts money cannot be recouped in the way lost love cannot be recouped, would it be freeing?

At least your friend is equipped to lead his new life.
 
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I can think of a few:

- you love your partner, but don't/can't trust their spending habits (in that you acknowledge that you need a 'rainy day account' but know your partner can't save)

- you feel that the relationship is not going so well, but want to give it a go to see how things work out, but also acknowledge that it might not, so you start up such an account for the just in case. In a situation like this, I definitely would want to be looking at keeping as much of my hard earned for myself.

- buying jewelry for your mistress can be expensive *wink*

Some people might see it as being untrusting, I personally prefer to use the word realistic. Everything is usually all peaches and cream at the start, but there is also the very real possibility that things can deteriorate over time and some partners can become rather vindictive and nasty if things go bad.

There's no harm in protecting as much of what's yours if you can help it I reckon.

Mark

Apart from the jewellery/mistress bit that is a pretty accurate precis of the situation. Things can and do change.
 
Hiya,

For those who advocate a secret account and hiding things from loved ones, would you also be willing to lie to a court if asked to provide details of assets?

Personally, I'd rather have the time after a relationship in which I know that I'd lost money that was "rightfully" mine, than have time before it ended knowing that I was hiding something from a loved one.

Not that I'd be making contingency plans anyway; personally, I'd rather devote energy to making it work and enjoying the time together...

Just my two hastily-written cents.

Cheers

James.
 
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