RBA Governor Glenn Stevens view on property and inflation

This is from a speech by Stevens to a private Treasury seminar on 11.3.08.

Full copy here


Personally, I am blown away....In the passage below Stevens admits if rents, loan facilities and petrol were stripped out of CPI calculations, CPI for the year ending Dec07 would have been 2.1%.....he then tries to refute stripping these factors out is valid, which he doesn't do......

Someone should point out that previous rate rises (in addition to sub prime) did drive rents and loan facilities up, and oil price rises are extrinsic to internal demand.....

I am flabbergasted at his lack of logic and this snow job.....who is this guy and where did he come from?????



Monetary Policy and Inflation: How Does it Work?

Glenn Stevens
Governor


Remarks to the Australian Treasury Seminar Series
Canberra - 11 March 2008



.......................People have also pointed out the prominent increases in rents in the CPI as a special factor, and it is certainly true that rents are rising quickly. The reason that is happening is pretty clear too: there is strong demand for that type of accommodation, and rents as a yield to the supplier have been unusually low. Hence, rents are bound to rise.
Interestingly, this shows the lengthy and rather complex connection between asset price changes and consumer price inflation. A key factor behind rental yields being very low was that the price of residential property rose so strongly – far faster than rents – in the earlier part of this decade, and has stayed high in most places in the country. While capital gains were occurring, it mattered little to many investors that rents as a running yield were low. But this was not sustainable. Once capital gains slowed, the low rental yield mattered a great deal. Low yields also prompted more demand for rental accommodation than otherwise. That combination was bound to lead to an adjustment in rents, unless property prices actually declined to restore the yield. Since, in most locations, they did not, an adjustment something like the one we now see became very likely. It seems likely to continue for a while yet, until either rental yields regain more attractive levels or some other factor raises the effective return for investors.
Suppose, though, that we did take out some of the ‘special factors’ that people nominate. Let’s, for the sake of argument, remove from the CPI rents and petrol, as well as the calculation of deposits and loan facilities. If we do that, the rate of inflation of the remaining items over the year to December 2007 is 2.1 per cent. No problem, right? Well, not exactly.
To assess the trend in inflation objectively, you cannot just take out items that rise in price, which is why we typically use underlying measures, which trim both extreme rises and falls. Suppose for the current purpose, then, that we also remove fresh fruit, as a very volatile item and one that happens to have held down the CPI over the past year, due to the unwinding of the great banana episode of 2005/06. Let’s also remove the effects of the child care rebate changes, treated as a price fall in the CPI, but which we know is a one-time effect and which reduced the CPI by 0.2 per cent...................
 
Hi WW

I am a bit confused by your comments. Are you saying we should strip out of the CPI those things that are increasing the cost of living such as fuel/food and rent?


Cheers

Shane
 
Personally, I am blown away....In the passage below Stevens admits if rents, loan facilities and petrol were stripped out of CPI calculations, CPI for the year ending Dec07 would have been 2.1%.....he then tries to refute stripping these factors out is valid, which he doesn't do......

Someone should point out that previous rate rises (in addition to sub prime) did drive rents and loan facilities up, and oil price rises are extrinsic to internal demand.....

I am flabbergasted at his lack of logic and this snow job.....who is this guy and where did he come from?????

There probably is a bit of higher interst rates driving inflation higher in those components. But I'd say the broader effects on the economy of higher interest rates will in time be much larger and overwhelm them and thus push prices down. That's another reasons why it's a blunt instrument I guess.
 
Hi WW

I am a bit confused by your comments. Are you saying we should strip out of the CPI those things that are increasing the cost of living such as fuel/food and rent?


Cheers

Shane

Doesn't matter how they calculate cpi to me. what they use it for does.

Where's the logic in pushing interest rates up further, when they are significant drivers of rents and loan facilities. Previous rate rises are doing exactly what the Rba are trrying to stop.


And where's the sense in raising rates if the cost of oil is going up, or bananas for that matter. Oil prices are up for good and the market will adapt to them in time. People can't cut expenditure on staples .
 
Hi WW

I am a bit confused by your comments. Are you saying we should strip out of the CPI those things that are increasing the cost of living such as fuel/food and rent?


Cheers

Shane

i think what ww was getting is that interest rates go up hence rents go up as less investor and builders getting into the market - not consumer choice to spend, they have to live somewhere.

cost of food goes up and people have to eat (strange that - if you don't eat you don't poop, if you don't poop you die) - consumers have no choice in buying food.

fuel is a necessity for getting to school, work, supermarket etc (although i personally have significantly cut back on my "house viewing" and suburb cruising trips - consumers have no choice but to put petrol in the car.

the public is led to believe that inflation is driven up by choosable doodad purchases such as plasma tv's, new cars, new clothes etc ... not these items that most have no choice but to purchase.

i know a lot of people of very good incomes who have been stripped back to absolute bare purchases and are still struggling.
 
Doesn't matter how they calculate cpi to me. what they use it for does.

Where's the logic in pushing interest rates up further, when they are significant drivers of rents and loan facilities. Previous rate rises are doing exactly what the Rba are trrying to stop.


And where's the sense in raising rates if the cost of oil is going up, or bananas for that matter. Oil prices are up for good and the market will adapt to them in time. People can't cut expenditure on staples .

This sounds to me like a chicken egg issue. Rising inflation forces the RBA's to increase interest rates as per its legislative requirements. Inflation is defined as either increasing prices due to increased demand (Keynesian view) or an increase in the avalable money supply causing excess dolars to be bid for goods and services (Austrian view). Rising interest rates have an effect on the economy by reducing the amount of money available to bid for goods and services and therefore reducing demand for those goods and services. You can't buy something if you don't have the money to pay for it. This is the way that they control the amount of money sloshing about.

The consequence of allowing inflation to get out of control is hyperinflation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation

which has very serious effects upon those in the community on relatively fixed incomes such as pensioners and retirees. They also feel the pinch of increased prices but have no way of increasing their fixed income (no wages breakouts for pensioners) to compensate them for the rising inflation.

I feel the RBA has a difficult job and I certainly wouldn't want it. It certainly is a blunt instrument but since they only have a couple of sledgehammer based tools in their toolbox it is probably unfair to blame them for inflation when they are raisiing rates. Inflation is a global phenomenon and even Fed Govt policy in Australia would have little effect upon inflation whilst countries such as the US print money so liberally.



Cheers

Shane
 
i think what ww was getting is that interest rates go up hence rents go up as less investor and builders getting into the market - not consumer choice to spend, they have to live somewhere.

If rates didnt go up and house prices continued to spiral upwards, rents would have to rise at some point to catch up, surely.

cost of food goes up and people have to eat (strange that - if you don't eat you don't poop, if you don't poop you die) - consumers have no choice in buying food.

There are alot of choices people can make to reduce their food bill. Shop at Aldi, shop at markets, don't buy prepackaged stuff. The majority of supermarket dollars are still spent at Woolworths and Coles so people do have choices.

fuel is a necessity for getting to school, work, supermarket etc (although i personally have significantly cut back on my "house viewing" and suburb cruising trips - consumers have no choice but to put petrol in the car.

With the higher cost of petrol there has been a massive increase in public transport use, at least in Melbourne. Small to medium size cars are becoming the norm. Mitsubishi closing down. Ford will be making the Focus rather than the Falcon in a few years. There is increasing adoptation of efficient diesels.

the public is led to believe that inflation is driven up by choosable doodad purchases such as plasma tv's, new cars, new clothes etc ... not these items that most have no choice but to purchase.

You have to purchase items in these category but how much you use and what items you use will have an influence. "You" being the collective community which is what inflation targets. I'm aware some people have already trimmed the fat as much as possible

i know a lot of people of very good incomes who have been stripped back to absolute bare purchases and are still struggling.

isn't that the point......

Just playing devil's advocate :D
 
...
I feel the RBA has a difficult job and I certainly wouldn't want it. It certainly is a blunt instrument but since they only have a couple of sledgehammer based tools in their toolbox it is probably unfair to blame them for inflation when they are raisiing rates. Inflation is a global phenomenon and even Fed Govt policy in Australia would have little effect upon inflation whilst countries such as the US print money so liberally.

Cheers

Shane
I've been thinking a lot about inflation recently, and whether the RBA is in the midst of going much higher with their rates or near a top when the US cession kicks in and we get a little sniffle as a result. Forced me to start looking at things like the 90d bank bills and RBA speeches closely.

I have seen the US 'carry trade' mentioned once or twice, and I see potential there for a Japan style print money to be invested in the rest of the world (but not at home) scenario, which is not a good scenario for Australia inflation wise.

I'm going to bite the bullet and fix some debt soon if I don't see some give in the inflation data.
 
fuel is a necessity for getting to school, work, supermarket etc (although i personally have significantly cut back on my "house viewing" and suburb cruising trips - consumers have no choice but to put petrol in the car.

... i would agrue this point. I think petrol prices should DEFINITEY be included in the CPI calculations.
My reasoning is that it is not just the price of petrol that has an effect on inflation - it's the VOLUME of petrol consumed. Have a look at the annual new car sales figures of the past 5 years, and you will see a very sharp increasing number of massive 4WDs and petrol guzzling V8s.
4WD sales now account for over 25% of all new car sales!!

Serously -who the fark needs a 4WD??
Ok, so you have 4 children.... so buy a Tarago, not a freaken Landcruiser Prado.
Also, the fleet markets of Australia need to stop supporting the petrol guzzling Falcons and Commodores. Whats wrong with Focus or an Astra... or a Golf Diesel??? (i could also go on about how taking away the crutches of these two cars would help lower the price of imported economical cars... but thats for another forum :))

I agree that petrol is a necessity - but the VOLUME of petrol we consume is not.
Both myself and my partner drive 1.6L corollas, spending less than $40/week each on petrol. If we each owned a 4WD or a Falcodore, we would be spending over $60/week each.
Thats a 50% increase, or a 33% decrease - depending on which way you look at it.
 
... i would agrue this point. I think petrol prices should DEFINITEY be included in the CPI calculations.
My reasoning is that it is not just the price of petrol that has an effect on inflation - it's the VOLUME of petrol consumed. Have a look at the annual new car sales figures of the past 5 years, and you will see a very sharp increasing number of massive 4WDs and petrol guzzling V8s.
4WD sales now account for over 25% of all new car sales!!

Serously -who the fark needs a 4WD??
Ok, so you have 4 children.... so buy a Tarago, not a freaken Landcruiser Prado.
Also, the fleet markets of Australia need to stop supporting the petrol guzzling Falcons and Commodores. Whats wrong with Focus or an Astra... or a Golf Diesel??? (i could also go on about how taking away the crutches of these two cars would help lower the price of imported economical cars... but thats for another forum :))

I agree that petrol is a necessity - but the VOLUME of petrol we consume is not.
Both myself and my partner drive 1.6L corollas, spending less than $40/week each on petrol. If we each owned a 4WD or a Falcodore, we would be spending over $60/week each.
Thats a 50% increase, or a 33% decrease - depending on which way you look at it.

my statesman V8 is cheaper then my old hyundai as runs on lpg:p
 
...
I agree that petrol is a necessity - but the VOLUME of petrol we consume is not.
Both myself and my partner drive 1.6L corollas, spending less than $40/week each on petrol. If we each owned a 4WD or a Falcodore, we would be spending over $60/week each.
Thats a 50% increase, or a 33% decrease - depending on which way you look at it.


Witzel, the price of oil is sufficient deterant to buy gas guzzlers.
Most people with mortgages don't drive gas guzzlers, so why hurt the majority for the self indulgent nature or real utilitarian need of a minority.

Reducing the demand for oil, by taxing people more with rate rises, does not reduce the cost of oil.






Neither does the RBA raising rates mean a lot when lenders will have to do it independently reflecting the higher cost of foreign money....

I honestly believe more harm than good is being done by these rate rises now, as do many economists.

Here's some ideas that would be more effective and fairer:

- a floating gst, so that in times of a heated economy, gst is increased on non staples, and even housing construction. If the govt wants to reduce consumption, hit discretionary consumption first, hardest, specifically, and effectively.

- if the RBA's goal is to slow the growth of borrowed money circulating, raise rates on new loans only, so housing starts are delayed. Existing loans don't contribute to heating the economy, unless someone is dipping into equity for acquring more IPs or discretionary goods and services, and both these will be reduced by my suggestions.

This whole idea of raising rates across the board, to share the hurt, is draconian, and has been shown time and again to overshoot, and take years to recover from. And the RBA justifying rate rises a while back due to the cost of bananas going up was ludricous. The consumer adjusted their behaviour by not buying bananas.
 
Here's some ideas that would be more effective and fairer:

- a floating gst, so that in times of a heated economy, gst is increased on non staples, and even housing construction. If the govt wants to reduce consumption, hit discretionary consumption first, hardest, specifically, and effectively.

.

I like this idea but control would need to be passed to the Reserve bank otherwise it would be political suicide.

Do any other advanced economies do anything like this?
 
can't put a small car on lpg - nowhere to put the tank without removing the back seats.

That was a little tongue in cheek, I know smaller cars make LPG fitouts restrictive.

In those cases, the obvious choice is the new breed of super-efficient diesels. 900+kms from one tank is damn impressive, and they are actually pretty quick too!

Witzel, the price of oil is sufficient deterant to buy gas guzzlers.
Most people with mortgages don't drive gas guzzlers, so why hurt the majority for the self indulgent nature or real utilitarian need of a minority.
Winston - i dunno if i believe that entirely. Ever drive past your local primary school at dropoff and pickup time??

Reducing the demand for oil, by taxing people more with rate rises, does not reduce the cost of oil.
I do agree with this though
 
In those cases, the obvious choice is the new breed of super-efficient diesels. 900+kms from one tank is damn impressive, and they are actually pretty quick too!

i'm waiting for a diesel/electric hybrid ... i reckon, with my driving, i'd get 1000km out of a tank as the electric recharges with braking ... :D
 
i'm waiting for a diesel/electric hybrid ... i reckon, with my driving, i'd get 1000km out of a tank as the electric recharges with braking ... :D

yeah we should all be on diesel....much more efficient.....and they can run on fish and chip oil ........

but natural gas would be even better...better than LPG too....
 
i'm waiting for a diesel/electric hybrid ... i reckon, with my driving, i'd get 1000km out of a tank as the electric recharges with braking ... :D

I don't know that a diesel/electric hybrid would be any more efficient than a straight modern diesel. Electric is far from 100% efficient. The prius, whilst better than many cars currently on the road isn't the most efficient thing in the world - its beaten by some modern diesels!
 
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