Whilst I can see that structural work should be done to standard for reasons of safety, surely this is bureaucracy gone mad. If these rules are followed to the letter, how on earth did those reno kings make their unreal profits from real estate? Is that airless paint spray gun licensed Geoff??
Renos and traps
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That was my first thought. Turns out QBSA were conducting a "sign and license blitz" ( they periodically target specific items) and as our project was near a new subdivision they had been in the subdivision checking that builders had their signs up and checking licences. I confirmed this with my plumber who also was pulled up the same day and asked for his license.
Took a look at the site.
Did you read this part?
Must obtain a Certificate of Consent from the Building Practitioners Board in order to obtain a building permit to carry out domestic building work valued over $12,000
May only obtain building permits for a single dwelling and associated work on a single property in any three-year period
Must reside and continue to reside, or intend to reside in the single dwelling.
Seems in Vic at least you have to be living or intend to live in the house. That means all IP's cannot be worked on by ourselves unless we are a Builder or use contractors??
Did you read this part?
Must obtain a Certificate of Consent from the Building Practitioners Board in order to obtain a building permit to carry out domestic building work valued over $12,000
May only obtain building permits for a single dwelling and associated work on a single property in any three-year period
Must reside and continue to reside, or intend to reside in the single dwelling.
Seems in Vic at least you have to be living or intend to live in the house. That means all IP's cannot be worked on by ourselves unless we are a Builder or use contractors??
Dis
www.consumer.vic.gov.au gives a little more info.
In part it states
"Owner Builders may undertake part of the building work themselves, except in areas that require licensed tradespeople"
......"tradespeople who do not require registration , Tilers, plasterers, glaziers and painters."
So I read it that ON YOUR OWN HOME ONLY ie. One that you reside or intend to reside in, as Owner Builder, you can do tiling painting glazing and plastering. Everything else you have to contract out.
www.consumer.vic.gov.au gives a little more info.
In part it states
"Owner Builders may undertake part of the building work themselves, except in areas that require licensed tradespeople"
......"tradespeople who do not require registration , Tilers, plasterers, glaziers and painters."
So I read it that ON YOUR OWN HOME ONLY ie. One that you reside or intend to reside in, as Owner Builder, you can do tiling painting glazing and plastering. Everything else you have to contract out.
Not only the reno kings, but what about all those renovators featured on TV shows such as Hot Property, doing all their own work? I don't think I've ever heard them say anything about having had to get licences etc. I would have thought that, if it's the law, they should say something like "Now, don't forget that if you want to try this at home you have to get permission (or fill out x form with y authority etc etc). You can't just lob in and rip out walls and put in kitchen cupboards and paint things all by yourself like it appears that these guys here on TV are doing!!"
Some may accept that rules are there and will follow them without question.
Some may take the view that this is just another example of bureaucracy gone mad.
And some may even make the observation that we do not live in free world. More and more of what some would class as basic freedoms and human rights are being restricted or taken away by those that govern and the exponentially increasing mass of legislation.
Regards
Able
Some may take the view that this is just another example of bureaucracy gone mad.
And some may even make the observation that we do not live in free world. More and more of what some would class as basic freedoms and human rights are being restricted or taken away by those that govern and the exponentially increasing mass of legislation.
Regards
Able
Hi all
I noticed those from QLD reading Vic regulations. Each state is different.
WA use to be $12000 now it $20k for permits and home idmenity insurance and it states that this does not include incidental work such us perolas, sheds, fencing and landscaping. The owner builder stuff appears to be the same in regards to own home and time periods.
It also, states if the job is over $7500 and you use a professional an approved contract needs to be in place ie: fixed cost or cost plus contract.
I cannot find on any govt site etc. with info in relation to things like "if the project is over $1100 you need a professional" etc.
As I am a "construction company" for tax purposes, I have just joined HIA.
So, now I can get all the legal info I need for free. Once they receive my cheque and I am a paid up member, I will be checking it all out. I will post what I find out.
And another thing I need to get a blue card, this is to certify that I have done the work safe course. Any one who works on s construction site (new building or reno) needs one $5k fine if you do not. I guess they will tell me I cannot stand on a milk crate anymore!!!!
I can do the course thru the HIA for free.
I noticed those from QLD reading Vic regulations. Each state is different.
WA use to be $12000 now it $20k for permits and home idmenity insurance and it states that this does not include incidental work such us perolas, sheds, fencing and landscaping. The owner builder stuff appears to be the same in regards to own home and time periods.
It also, states if the job is over $7500 and you use a professional an approved contract needs to be in place ie: fixed cost or cost plus contract.
I cannot find on any govt site etc. with info in relation to things like "if the project is over $1100 you need a professional" etc.
As I am a "construction company" for tax purposes, I have just joined HIA.
So, now I can get all the legal info I need for free. Once they receive my cheque and I am a paid up member, I will be checking it all out. I will post what I find out.
And another thing I need to get a blue card, this is to certify that I have done the work safe course. Any one who works on s construction site (new building or reno) needs one $5k fine if you do not. I guess they will tell me I cannot stand on a milk crate anymore!!!!
I can do the course thru the HIA for free.
Wow - so that's the end to cheap make-overs (ie. done by myself) then... When did all this come in?? We are in the middle of a reno at the moment and while we've used builders all along I've been doing demolishing, painting and landscaping by myself sofar. Mmh, better look into this!
Thanks for bringing this up!
Cheers
kaf
Thanks for bringing this up!
Cheers
kaf
This is very confusing. I must say the research I have done does not overly help my own situation either.
My understanding is that the 'building' work is all that is counted. Landscaping for example does not require a permit. If you were moving the house or removing a wall etc then you may have to consider a permit.
But taking out an existing kitchen and replacing it with new cupboards wouldn't require a permit. A kitchen with granit and new appliances could cost you upwards of $10k but you wouldn't need a permit. you would just need a plumber to give you a certificate for connecting the gas and that would be it. the rest is cosmetic, not related to building at all and doesn't require insurance or permit.
what is others understanding?
My understanding is that the 'building' work is all that is counted. Landscaping for example does not require a permit. If you were moving the house or removing a wall etc then you may have to consider a permit.
But taking out an existing kitchen and replacing it with new cupboards wouldn't require a permit. A kitchen with granit and new appliances could cost you upwards of $10k but you wouldn't need a permit. you would just need a plumber to give you a certificate for connecting the gas and that would be it. the rest is cosmetic, not related to building at all and doesn't require insurance or permit.
what is others understanding?
It may be worthwhile checking what is Exempt from development application with the council. The following is Fairfield councils exemptions and if the construction does not it the controls listed a DA is required.
MINOR INTERNAL
ALTERATIONS TO
DOMESTIC SINGLE
DWELLINGS (excluding
heritage items).
Non-structural work including;
replacement of doors, wall, ceiling or floor linings;
replacement of deteriorated frame members with equivalent or improved quality materials; and
renovations of bathrooms, kitchens, inclusion of built-in fixtures such as vanities cupboards and
wardrobes.
Applies only to alterations or renovations to previously completed buildings.
Work not to include changes to the configuration of rooms whether by removal of existing walls,
partitions or by other means.
Construction does not alter the building to create a separate occupancy (eg. Attached granny Flat)
Work not to reduce window area required for light and ventilation needs or, reduced doorways for
egress purposes or involve enclosure of open areas.
The alteration should not reduce the structural strength and stability of the building. For example,
external walls are often strengthened and stabilised by internal walls that resist loads such as wind
forces. The removal of internal walls without considering overall strength and stability may result in
the failure of external walls.
You are advised to consult a structural engineer, architect or building surveyor before commencing
alterations to ensure compliance with the Building Code of Australia.
Any work involving asbestos cement should comply with the NSW Workcover Authority's "Guide
for working with Asbestos".
Any work involving lead paint removal must not cause lead contamination of air or ground.
The Environment Protection Authority, Workcover Authority and/or Council may be contacted for
further advice relating to safe handling of asbestos and lead paint
all alterations or works should be carried out in a way that ensures waste is disposed of in a manner
consistent with the EPA's Construction and Demolition Waste Action Plan 1998 (phone EPA pollution
line on 131555 for copies)
http://www.fairfieldcity.nsw.gov.au/upload/mrxyg58456/Chapter2_Exempt_n_Complying_Development.pdf
Seems that the council really doesn't want to be bothered with the sort of level of detail that the QBSA thinks they should be concerned with.
I was discussing this with a BSA type who asked what I did. "Reno'ing amongst other things" was my answer. Him, "well I hope you are getting DA's". Checked with council and not necessary. No mention of your own PPOR etc. Only comes to the fore when you are an owner builder.
Seems like the BSA types want to get every little thing that is possible to be done to a property to be controlled and councils are actually a little bit realistic and realise the workload that they would be taking on if they followed the BSA to the word.????
Cheers
PS I really think that it was the term 'Owner builder' is what set this guy off. If you had simply said 'we are redecorating' which happens to include installing, a new kitchen and bathroom, then the guy would have toddled of none the wiser. But because you used the 'renovating and owner builder' as I did in my discussion it has an immediate and different meaning to them and brings the work immediately under their umbrella.
Have you spoken to the QBSA since and what is their response?
MINOR INTERNAL
ALTERATIONS TO
DOMESTIC SINGLE
DWELLINGS (excluding
heritage items).
Non-structural work including;
replacement of doors, wall, ceiling or floor linings;
replacement of deteriorated frame members with equivalent or improved quality materials; and
renovations of bathrooms, kitchens, inclusion of built-in fixtures such as vanities cupboards and
wardrobes.
Applies only to alterations or renovations to previously completed buildings.
Work not to include changes to the configuration of rooms whether by removal of existing walls,
partitions or by other means.
Construction does not alter the building to create a separate occupancy (eg. Attached granny Flat)
Work not to reduce window area required for light and ventilation needs or, reduced doorways for
egress purposes or involve enclosure of open areas.
The alteration should not reduce the structural strength and stability of the building. For example,
external walls are often strengthened and stabilised by internal walls that resist loads such as wind
forces. The removal of internal walls without considering overall strength and stability may result in
the failure of external walls.
You are advised to consult a structural engineer, architect or building surveyor before commencing
alterations to ensure compliance with the Building Code of Australia.
Any work involving asbestos cement should comply with the NSW Workcover Authority's "Guide
for working with Asbestos".
Any work involving lead paint removal must not cause lead contamination of air or ground.
The Environment Protection Authority, Workcover Authority and/or Council may be contacted for
further advice relating to safe handling of asbestos and lead paint
all alterations or works should be carried out in a way that ensures waste is disposed of in a manner
consistent with the EPA's Construction and Demolition Waste Action Plan 1998 (phone EPA pollution
line on 131555 for copies)
http://www.fairfieldcity.nsw.gov.au/upload/mrxyg58456/Chapter2_Exempt_n_Complying_Development.pdf
Seems that the council really doesn't want to be bothered with the sort of level of detail that the QBSA thinks they should be concerned with.
I was discussing this with a BSA type who asked what I did. "Reno'ing amongst other things" was my answer. Him, "well I hope you are getting DA's". Checked with council and not necessary. No mention of your own PPOR etc. Only comes to the fore when you are an owner builder.
Seems like the BSA types want to get every little thing that is possible to be done to a property to be controlled and councils are actually a little bit realistic and realise the workload that they would be taking on if they followed the BSA to the word.????
Cheers
PS I really think that it was the term 'Owner builder' is what set this guy off. If you had simply said 'we are redecorating' which happens to include installing, a new kitchen and bathroom, then the guy would have toddled of none the wiser. But because you used the 'renovating and owner builder' as I did in my discussion it has an immediate and different meaning to them and brings the work immediately under their umbrella.
Have you spoken to the QBSA since and what is their response?
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Hi guys
I've just spoken to the BSA in Queensland and if you own the house (IP or PPOR) you can do renovations yourself up to $11,000 before you need a licenced contractor (not including plumbing, electrical work & structural stuff of course where you always need a licenced person). The $11,000 is meant to include material, labour and GST so that would add up very quickly if you did it by the book ... oh well, at least I can still paint my own IP and Australian DIY is not completely dead.
The $1,100 threshold is if it is not your house - any work over this amount will require a licenced person. So can't paint you mum's house... what a stupid rule!!
Anyway so thanks to Mr number I now know what to say to a BSA inspector : quote came in at $10,999 Hope you going to be alright mate with your BSA troubles...
kaf
I've just spoken to the BSA in Queensland and if you own the house (IP or PPOR) you can do renovations yourself up to $11,000 before you need a licenced contractor (not including plumbing, electrical work & structural stuff of course where you always need a licenced person). The $11,000 is meant to include material, labour and GST so that would add up very quickly if you did it by the book ... oh well, at least I can still paint my own IP and Australian DIY is not completely dead.
The $1,100 threshold is if it is not your house - any work over this amount will require a licenced person. So can't paint you mum's house... what a stupid rule!!
Anyway so thanks to Mr number I now know what to say to a BSA inspector : quote came in at $10,999
Hope you going to be alright mate with your BSA troubles...kaf
Hi Kaf
Don't forget that if the property is in a trust you don't own it!!!!!
This may have been the main problem with Mr N.
Could we please get an update - have the QBSA fined you? are you able to reno(from now on decorate) again? and will you ever park a skip out the front again?
Don't you just love cliff hangers although in this case it is very serious.
Cheers
Don't forget that if the property is in a trust you don't own it!!!!!
This may have been the main problem with Mr N.
Could we please get an update - have the QBSA fined you? are you able to reno(from now on decorate) again? and will you ever park a skip out the front again?
Don't you just love cliff hangers although in this case it is very serious.
Cheers
What a load of nonsense! The politicians and beaurocrats that dream this stuff up should be first up against the wall...
All I can do as far as renovating goes is paint, garden and put together Ikea hits, I'm pretty un-handy otherwise. If I have the time to do the work myself there is no way I'm paying for someone to paint a bedroom or install a laundry cupboard or do some weeding!
Lucky I'm in WA, the regs read a lot better here than for some other states!
TB
All I can do as far as renovating goes is paint, garden and put together Ikea hits, I'm pretty un-handy otherwise. If I have the time to do the work myself there is no way I'm paying for someone to paint a bedroom or install a laundry cupboard or do some weeding!
Lucky I'm in WA, the regs read a lot better here than for some other states!
TB
Hot property is a uk show right, maybe not so much red tape over that way
They should be so lucky! But I'm sure the Hot Property show that we see here is not a UK show, as they feature auctions all over Australia, and people doing their renovations in every state of Australia. What about that Jason fellow knocking out walls and putting on another story on the Sunshine Coast (all in a rush before their new baby arrived!). Surely the show's producers have a responsibility to not show people doing things illegally?!:rolleyes or at least to point out what red tape is involved before certain things can be done?
No, HotProperty is definitely Aussie - http://media.domain.com.au/?rid=31948
And the UK has PLENTY of red tape....
This is insane!!!
I am in Brisbane doing a reno atm!!! The main work I am doing myself is ripping out the old kitchen and installing a new one. I am also sanding the floors and painting the inside myself...surely that doesn't need to be done by a licensed builder!!
All electrical and plumbing work is done by my buider, bathroom reno and new stairs out front done by builder.
I might have to look into this a bit more. In reality though I don't believe it would cost me $10K to have the kitchen I want supplied and fitted so I should be ok.
Thanks for the heads up.
McDeyess
I am in Brisbane doing a reno atm!!! The main work I am doing myself is ripping out the old kitchen and installing a new one. I am also sanding the floors and painting the inside myself...surely that doesn't need to be done by a licensed builder!!
All electrical and plumbing work is done by my buider, bathroom reno and new stairs out front done by builder.
I might have to look into this a bit more. In reality though I don't believe it would cost me $10K to have the kitchen I want supplied and fitted so I should be ok.
Thanks for the heads up.
McDeyess