Rising inflation in India and China

I am always of belief that as long as India and China can hold out their inflation internally without raising the value of their underlying currency, then the global inflation will be contained. However, bloomberg has produced the following article this morning. This is what I feared more than anything else, as it could trigger a global inflation. Any opinion on this?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=abGXFUCjwurA&refer=home

Yuan, Rupee Rise at Record Pace as China, India Fight Inflation

By Bo Nielsen
Enlarge Image/Details

Oct. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Asian currencies from the Indian rupee to the Chinese yuan are rising at a record pace as central banks turn to the foreign-exchange markets for help in fighting inflation.

The rupee's 11 percent gain this year is its biggest since 1974 and surpassed the predictions of all 26 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News at the start of 2007. The yuan has climbed 3.8 percent, its fastest appreciation since China ended a peg to the dollar in 2005. The Singapore dollar has reached a 10-year high after its biggest monthly gain since 2001.

By allowing their currencies to strengthen, Asian countries are attempting to reduce the cost of importing coal, iron ore and wheat, ingredients essential to their booming economies. The risk is that the goods they produce may become too expensive. In China, consumer prices rose 6.5 percent in August, the most since 1997. Singapore consumer prices hit a 12-year high in August, and India's inflation rate this year reached the highest since 2005.

``Asian central banks are balancing tremendous pressure from exporters to keep exchange rates cheap while keeping an eye on inflation,'' said Kenneth Rogoff, an economics professor at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and the former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund. ``They must let their currencies go before they suffer too much from inflation.''

Coordinated Effort

Some members of the Group of Seven industrialized nations, including the U.S. and Germany, may propose a coordinated effort to boost Asian currencies at their meeting in Washington starting Oct. 19, Rogoff said. European Union Monetary Affairs Commissioner Joaquin Almunia on Oct. 12 said China should allow its currency to appreciate more against the euro.

Asian central banks are finding that raising interest rates and selling debt aren't enough to soak up the cash that generates higher wages and fuels inflation, said Lawrence Goodman, head of emerging market foreign-exchange strategy at Bank of America Corp. in New York.

``The response will be stronger currencies because they'll buy fewer dollars,'' Goodman said.

The People's Bank of China increased rates five times this year, while the Reserve Bank of India has boosted its target seven times in two years. China's money supply still has expanded more than 18 percent in the last three months. Salaries in India will climb an average of 14.5 percent in 2007, the most in Asia for the second year in a row, according to Hewitt Associates Inc., a Chicago-based human resources company.

Singapore Takes Action

The Monetary Authority of Singapore said Oct. 10 it ``will increase slightly'' the pace of appreciation for its dollar against a basket of currencies to curb inflation. The Singapore dollar rose 2.4 percent in September, and reached S$1.4610 on Oct. 12, the highest in a decade.

``Currency appreciation addresses the inflation problem and reduces the cost of intervention as well,'' said Rajeev De Mello, who helps manage $600 billion as head of the Singapore office of Western Asset Management Co. in Pasadena, California. He predicts the rupee will strengthen 5 percent by year-end and the yuan will rise 10 percent by the end of 2008.

Central banks intervene when they buy and sell currencies to influence exchange rates. China's purchases of dollars pumped yuan into the economy, where foreign-exchange reserves climbed $101 billion in the third quarter to $1.43 trillion, the most in the world; India's climbed by a record $34.2 billion in the period to $248 billion.

Scaling Back

Central banks in Singapore, Taiwan and Korea have scaled back intervention in recent months in what may signal a move toward stronger currencies in the region, said Jens Nordvig, a strategist with Goldman Sachs Group Inc. in New York. The firm estimates that the Malaysian ringgit and Taiwan dollar are 15 percent undervalued, the Indonesian rupiah 11 percent.

Goldman on Oct. 11 raised its forecasts on six Asian currencies, saying the Philippine peso will gain 6 percent over the next 12 months. It previously estimated a decline of 2 percent. The same day New York-based Morgan Stanley boosted its forecasts for six of the region's currencies, including a 11 percent jump in the Singapore dollar to S$1.30 by the end of next year.

``These countries have become more confident about the growth of their economies and that allows them to loosen the grip on currencies,'' said Gabriel de Kock, chief currency economist at New York-based Citigroup Global Markets Inc., a unit of the biggest U.S. bank by assets. ``And if they are seeing everyone around move at the same time it's not such a big deal for them.''

Growth Forecast

Asia's economy, excluding Japan, will expand 9.3 percent this year at almost twice the global average, helped by a 15.7 percent rise in exports, according to Deutsche Bank AG. The U.S. will slow to 1.9 percent, the Frankfurt-based bank said. Investors have since mid-August poured money into Asian equity funds at the fastest pace since at least 2000, data from world- wide fund tracker EPFR Global show.

Currencies in Asia are rising so fast that manufacturers in Asia are demanding reassurances from policy makers that their exports will remain competitive. India's export growth slowed to an average 14.4 percent in the first eight months of this year, compared with 22.4 percent in the same period in 2006, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

``If the rise in the rupee continues, people will lose their jobs,'' said Ganesh Kumar Gupta, president of the Federation of Indian Exporters in New Delhi last month. ``The government's measures to curb the rupee have thus far been half- hearted.''

India's Example

In Malaysia, exporters met with the central bank and concluded the exchange rate wasn't a concern because ``the ringgit has strengthened at the same time as other currencies,'' said Paul Low, vice-president of the Kuala Lumpur-based Federation of Malaysian Manufacturers.

India's currency climbed 2.6 percent last month, even though the Reserve Bank of India said it purchased the most dollars since 2000. Asian countries added $2.1 trillion to reserves in the six years ended in 2006, New York-based consulting company McKinsey & Co. said in a report this month.

The yuan's 3.9 percent appreciation in the first nine months of this year was the most since it started trading on currency markets. The 12.6 percent gain in the rupee is the most since a peg to the British pound ended in September 1975.

Elsewhere in Asia, the Philippine peso has gained 5.7 percent the last month and Malaysian ringgit 3.6 percent, the fastest increases since at least 2001. Last week, the peso climbed to a seven-year high of 44.015, while the ringgit reached 3.3545 and the rupee 39.27 per dollar, both the strongest in 10 years.

`Massive Underperformance'

The rupee's surge helped cut India's inflation rate to an annual rate of 3.4 percent in September, from a two-year high of 6.7 percent in January. Price increases will rebound to 5 percent by March next year, according to the median estimate of 9 economists surveyed by Bloomberg.

Asian central banks that want faster appreciation in their currencies are getting some help from international investors, who are pumping money back into emerging markets after pulling away in July and August. Stock market indexes in India, China, the Philippines, Indonesia and Singapore rose to records in the last month.

``People are waking up to the fact that there has been a massive underperformance of the Asian currencies,'' said Paul Barrett, chief foreign-exchange trader at JPMorgan Private Bank in New York, which oversees about $430 billion. ``Asian currencies are cheap.''
 
At the end of the day you need to either fix your loans, and in my opinion for a period of 5yrs+, or be able to wear a POSSIBLE rate increase of around 1.5% on your variable. YOu should also not bank, ie treat as a certainty, on asset revaluations to support cash flow shortages.

So long as you are prepared for this, then you will be fine.
 
I am always of belief that as long as India and China can hold out their inflation internally without raising the value of their underlying currency, then the global inflation will be contained. However, bloomberg has produced the following article this morning. This is what I feared more than anything else, as it could trigger a global inflation. Any opinion on this?

I believe this is the single biggest risk to the global economy at the moment, the risk of breakout inflation in developing economies.

Central banks already appear to have chosen their path, growth at any cost (short term gain for long term pain)....

To anyone that thinks inflation and speculation is not a problem in China - have a look at the SSE Composite index. Currently about to go through 6000, that's 50% higher than when the govt tried to cool the stockmarket through policy intervention only 3 months ago!!

http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#cha...ne;crosshair=on;logscale=off;source=undefined

Have also read numerous articles on China's response to inflation - which is basically govt inforced price controls......

I believe the long term China story, but not at any price... should be interesting what happens after the olympics in August

TJ
 
I think massive inflation is on the way.

Another article saying much the same thing, and it's all very easy to understand,...

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1670255,00.html

............."Wal-Mart shoppers, meet Xu Yaqing. She's a 62-year-old retiree who lives on a fixed income in Beijing. Xu and her husband get by on $263 a month, and lately, the couple's monthly pensions haven't been enough. The price of the peanut oil that Xu cooks with has doubled in the past few months, and soaring costs for other staples have forced them to cut back on milk and to substitute bean curd for meat. They're not starving. But they're scared. "Prices are going up so much and so quickly," Xu complains.

Xu's lamentations, and those of her fellow Chinese, may soon be reverberating around the world, and particularly loudly at big-box retailers like Wal-Mart in the West. That's because all those inexpensive exports gushing out of Chinese factories — the $15 sweaters, the $25 sneakers, the sub-$100 DVD players — may start getting pricier as the mainland struggles to bring its runaway economy under control. Not all economists agree it's inevitable, but some are warning that an era during which low-cost Chinese production helped to maintain unusually stable prices for manufactured goods around the world is coming to an end. This view isn't held just by a few lonely bears in the wilderness. In his new book and in recent newspaper interviews, former U.S. central-bank chairman Alan Greenspan has been emphasizing that prices for Chinese exports have started to rise, which will contribute to a revival of global inflation. Ben Simpfendorfer, China strategist for the Royal Bank of Scotland, puts it succinctly: "Where China was a deflationary influence over the last 10 years, it will be an inflationary influence over the next 10 years."

Although it may not be evident at the local Wal-Mart yet, these forces may already be in play. Demand from China, along with other fast-growing emerging economies, has driven up the price of oil and a wide range of other commodities for the past several years. But what's really worrying many economists is the sudden appearance of relatively high inflation within China and the ripples that might cause abroad. Despite five interest-rate increases this year by China's central bank, the country's consumer price index has been stubbornly on the rise. In August, inflation climbed to a 6.5% annual rate, the fastest clip in more than 10 years.

The government and some economists blamed the jump almost entirely on sharply higher prices for meat and poultry, which surged 49% since mid-2006.".......




Food prices will be the main catalist. Agriculture reached a tipping point 2 years ago. Until 2 years ago, agriculture increased production faster than food demand. Now it can't anymore.

I'm almost 100% invested into agriculture and resources/energy through my farm and shares. So I should benefit from the increasing inflation. The only thing I would go into debt to buy is agricultural land.

See ya's.
 
Food prices are definitely rising, and even if official figures tone it down (deliberately, I think), the ordinary people will see through it. Mainly because they're buying pork every day while they don't buy computers that are getting cheaper and cheaper every day!

I think inflation is inevitable unless there's a recession. Looking at the Japanese experience, if the Chinese really let the CNY float, exports will suddenly be much more expensive, and that will damage Chinese growth. If they leave it pegged (with a trading range, like now) they'll have to keep neutralising the USD inflow and create more inflation.

What I'd like to know is, if we assume the USD is going to fall further, what's going to happen to the AUD? I'm wondering whether there might be a situation where the USD falls against other currencies and the AUD falls against the USD. If the US goes into recession and drags China with it.....

Though I don't see any major decisions being made until after the Olympics.
Alex
 
and there's one more complication.. China cannot afford to have a recession, otherwise the whole country could be shaken as it is still in a delicate state and the poor/rich gap is too large. Communist party could also risk itself being toppled off. On the global scale, a 1929 event isn't impossible should recession comes too fast too quickly
 
and there's one more complication.. China cannot afford to have a recession, otherwise the whole country could be shaken as it is still in a delicate state and the poor/rich gap is too large. Communist party could also risk itself being toppled off. On the global scale, a 1929 event isn't impossible should recession comes too fast too quickly

Kinda tough when you don't have an ideological leg to stand on, so the only way to justify your existence is by proving you can do a good job running the economy.

I remember some chinese official saying they need 7-8% growth or something just to absorb all the workers moving from the countryside. If they went to 5% growth there would be riots in the streets.
Alex
 
Agreed. India is growing at a faster rate than actually realized by most western countries. Look at the fastest growing cities in the world. There are more than 8 Indian cities in the list.

real estate in India is appreciating very fast. One very important factor, often overlooked, is the dollar remittances of non-resident Indians. Its estimated that over 1Bn USD is remitted to India annually.

Cheers and Happy Investing !!!
 
1bn is a drop in the ocean, you realise. Non-resident Phillipinos remitted 14bn in 2007, and Mexicans remitted 23b back to Mexico last year according to a Reuters article. India has a population of 1.1bn. The Phillipines has 88m people and Mexico 109m. Relatively speaking, Indian remittances are non-existent.

I actually think India is structurally weaker than China. The caste system, lower levels of education (the IT geniuses are statistical anomalies), relatively fewer manufacturing jobs (which you need for a middle class, because office jobs require fewer people which end up creating a white collar group and the poor), and its infrastructure is still nowhere near China's.

I still think China is headed for trouble with bad debts and too much capacity (a la Japan), with social unrest thrown in, though.
Alex
 
Alex:

I've been following all the updates about the 17th Congress from Yahoo HK like crazy. I really like Hu and Wen, and Hu's speech yesterday confirmed his forward thinking. Regardless of what will happen to China esp in short term, China's definitely heading in the right direction, and Hu and Wen's bold effort and determination to lay down the plans should be applauded wholeheartedly (Jiang's pretty useless in that sense)
 
Bottom line, I don't trust the Chinese or the system, so I won't be investing directly in China (or Hong Kong, for that matter). I'll just read the macro stuff to analyse how it affects investment prospects in Oz.
Alex
 
1bn is a drop in the ocean, you realise. Non-resident Phillipinos remitted 14bn in 2007, and Mexicans remitted 23b back to Mexico last year according to a Reuters article. India has a population of 1.1bn. The Phillipines has 88m people and Mexico 109m. Relatively speaking, Indian remittances are non-existent.

I actually think India is structurally weaker than China. The caste system, lower levels of education (the IT geniuses are statistical anomalies), relatively fewer manufacturing jobs (which you need for a middle class, because office jobs require fewer people which end up creating a white collar group and the poor), and its infrastructure is still nowhere near China's.

I still think China is headed for trouble with bad debts and too much capacity (a la Japan), with social unrest thrown in, though.
Alex

More than 1 Bn is remitted from Dubai itself. India gets the lion share of the world remittances. It has over 10% of the total 230 BN USD remittances and growing at over 15%.

India is and has been a structurally and economically more stable than China. India is transparent in its media and IS a democracy.

After being the world's back office, India is poised to become the hi-tech manufacturing hub.

Cheers
 
The caste system, lower levels of education (the IT geniuses are statistical anomalies), relatively fewer manufacturing jobs (which you need for a middle class, because office jobs require fewer people which end up creating a white collar group and the poor), and its infrastructure is still nowhere near China's.
Alex

Alex,

Caste system, i hv never experinced and heard of it in India. This is thing of the 60's mate:) . Most of the western nations swear by it.

With the largest middle class the in the world, the spread of wealth more even than anywhere. The education system produces the largest pool of engineers, doctors and MBAs.

Am not sure, if you had read it lately. The news is that the richest man in the world would be Mukesh Ambani.

Cheers
 
More than 1 Bn is remitted from Dubai itself. India gets the lion share of the world remittances. It has over 10% of the total 230 BN USD remittances and growing at over 15%.

So you're saying it has the same $ amount of remittances to Mexico, which has one tenth the population. My point is that relative to population, India's remittances are low.
Alex
 
Caste system, i hv never experinced and heard of it in India. This is thing of the 60's mate:) . Most of the western nations swear by it.

With the largest middle class the in the world, the spread of wealth more even than anywhere. The education system produces the largest pool of engineers, doctors and MBAs.

Am not sure, if you had read it lately. The news is that the richest man in the world would be Mukesh Ambani.

I thought it was still a fight between Carlos Slim and Bill Gates. But of course it's possible the richest guy in the world can be an Indian. Or Chinese. Or Russian. Or albino gorilla. What does it prove? I mean, does the fact that Slim has a shot at being the richest guy in the world mean Mexico is suddenly better economically?

China produces are lot of engineers too. Are they actually employable?

Re caste, I just get my information from sources like these. They might be wrong, but maybe not:
http://www.economist.com/countries/India/

http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=9909319

I know nothing about India or its culture other than what I read in the media, so I'm purely going on what I read. But if it's like China, there are lot more problems than people think. China is NOT just what you see in Shanghai, especially not what the bits the foreigners see.
Alex
 
Diverting off from topic a bit

Hi firstmillion:

I have actively discussed about India and China with my Indian friends and Chinese friends, and I also get constant feedback from my uncle, who still has a business in Calcutta (and yes, I have Hindi and Mandarin speaking cousins :D).

One of the question that has bothered me for a while until 2 years ago, was, India is supposed to be ahead of China by miles, because China only started opening itself up in early 80's, whereas India has never isolated itself from anyone. After extensive discussions, we come to the conclusion that diverse opinions and bureaucracies are what holding India back. There are so many different languages and cultures on one sub-continent, which is great from a cultural point of perspective. However, politically this created a chaos, which resulted in inefficient execution of policies. China, on the other hand, was homogenised by Qing Shi Huang (or Emperor Nasi Goreng if u watched Telstra TV), who unified Chinese characters and language, and created a more uniform "Han" culture. This allows policies to be executed with more efficiency.

The other thing which I have also observed is the density of enterpreneurs. I have noticed that Indians who are good with business and money are predominantly ppl from North West corner (Mumbai area). This culture has now extended to South/SE India to certain extent due to massive IT development in the area, but other areas are still dominated by working class attitude. If India wants to create its own dynasty, more enterpreneurs are required. This can be done by building infrastructures across the nation, which will encourage foreign investment (again bureaucracies cannot stand in the way). China has just finished building Tibet-Beijing railway, and its impact on the surrounding economy has already been observed.


my 2 cents worth..
 
One of the most intelligent conversations in a while..

Global Inflation is a concern .. with Yuan pegged to basket of currencies including USD, and various other nations directly pegged to USD, US is simply trying to dissipitate inflationary pressures around the globe.. Its a matter of time... Had the sub-prime event not occurred US fed would be harping on about inflation...

In terms of China and India comparison... There are advantages to both.. China has communism so can dictate policy without too much beuracracy and tome wasting, its infrastructure is much better, manufacturing lead, catching up on services..

In terms of India, it has a relatively young population, compared with China, it has global services expanding from IT into helathcare/pharma, bio-med, investment banking (growth sectors of the future)..

Feilong - India has been slow off the mark due to ..... democracy ... would you believe it ! I will write more later..
 
by the way here is a trivia question..

Which country had the largest economy over the last few thousand years?

... India

(it accounted for est. 35- 40% of world for few thousand years .. 2nd was China. Compare that to US in its prime which acocunted for 25% !!)

These two monsters are simple reclaiming their positions..
 
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