Got some links? Can't say I've seen any 'to be' FHBs complaining on this site that they can't afford a 4x2... or seen similar anywhere online. Sounds like another property myth to me.
Shameful honesty
- Thread starter Dazz
- Start date
BeeBop constantly said he wasn't going to buy and live in a 2 bedroom dump. That suggests he wanted something bigger and prettier, than my first home.
they whine about affordability when there are heaps of affordable places they can buy for $400pw and rent out a room for $100pw so basically can have their own place for $300pw .
it is only an "afforability crisis' for "them" on the types of property and locations that want to buy in.
why couldn't two first home buyers paying $200pw each in rent join forces and buy something for $300K,
if u would rather rent in a quality location then that is a lifestyle choice, don't complain about affordability.
they reason the properties in those areas cost more is because they are better areas and more people want to live there, it is called supply and demand. why not rent there and buy an investment somewhere else? best of both worlds
maybe not on the forum, but any articles popping up online always have a swage of comments and pleading and bleatings attached in a similar fashion.
bit like all those posts claiming investors say 'property always goes up". Can't actually remember a single post from any investor that actually claims anything except property moves in cycles
Barnett has suggested that there's a logical difference between what's affordable and where the 'affordability critique' is coming from. A lot of good people have been arguing the same point here for a long while.
If you want have your dream home, it is probably unaffordable to FHBs. If you're prepared to accept this as a fact of life - and work hard, save very hard and invest incredibly hard - you'll get your dream home . . . eventually.
It's no different to our parents, or theirs, or theirs, or anyone else in human history. Did the ancient Romans ALL have villas, or were 70% of them slaves?
You could reasonably argue that today, unlike in our parents' time, one median salary won't suffice, as it might have done to 'get it all' previously.
Sorry, but the world itself has changed.
We live in a far more fiercely economically competitive world economic enviroment than our parents. China can out-manufacture us at a fraction of our costs; India can out-service our IT industries at a whim; Anyone can do business with virtually anyone across the globe, without colonial or protectionist restrictions, in our new globalised world order.
To just keep up we have to work a heck of a lot harder, and to get ahead we need both partners working, saving and investing.
That's just how the world is today. The 'affordability critique' is a hoax.
If you want have your dream home, it is probably unaffordable to FHBs. If you're prepared to accept this as a fact of life - and work hard, save very hard and invest incredibly hard - you'll get your dream home . . . eventually.
It's no different to our parents, or theirs, or theirs, or anyone else in human history. Did the ancient Romans ALL have villas, or were 70% of them slaves?
You could reasonably argue that today, unlike in our parents' time, one median salary won't suffice, as it might have done to 'get it all' previously.
Sorry, but the world itself has changed.
We live in a far more fiercely economically competitive world economic enviroment than our parents. China can out-manufacture us at a fraction of our costs; India can out-service our IT industries at a whim; Anyone can do business with virtually anyone across the globe, without colonial or protectionist restrictions, in our new globalised world order.
To just keep up we have to work a heck of a lot harder, and to get ahead we need both partners working, saving and investing.
That's just how the world is today. The 'affordability critique' is a hoax.
Hobo.
Perth is a little different. Banrett is wrong, you can buy a 4br home for affordable money I reckon.
Putting the inner city 20km radius to one side south west of perth is affordable. Better than that it has fast train access to the city with a freeway that compared to cities like Sydney and Brisbane is a ripper, and best of all unlike living somewhere like say Baulko in Sydney you don't have to pay $15.00 in tolls a day just to drive into the city and back.
You can if you are a worker buy something like this as your first home for 329k. Before anyone goes thats an agents tactic to say xxx + over here you will get it for less than the listed minimum price anyway. It aint like Sydney...
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-port+kennedy-107378355
Thats a 4br.
If you can afford a bit more, cause port kennedy is not the best burb, move further out to Golden Bay, Secret Harbour or Meadow springs (which is again cheap and OK) or even to mandurah.
Don't get me wrong I am not saying these are good investments as it appears there are still plenty of blocks coming into the market but they are at least affordable and they are 4br homes and their are ample to choose from (indeed why I don't thin kthey are investment material at present but are cheap relative to most of Australia with proximity to employment.
Guess many would not consider them in Perth. If you knew Sydney though by comparison you can buy 20km out of the city and take longer to get to work than these joints. In fact you could probably get to Sydney faster from these joints than some parts of Sydney...
The demand is there in bucketloads hobo-jo. Not just in WA either....
Here...selling oodles like hotcakes.....brand spanking 4 x 2 for $ 243K.....that's house and land packages, not just houses.
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-baldivis-107303209
...and here....
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-byford-106927097
...and here....
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-seville+grove-107121953
...and here....
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-ridgewood-106692328
It's a bit like how the comment " property never goes down" actually comes from the bears 99% of the time. Not bulls.
Not bad I guess Dazz as long as you don't mind living 30-40km out of the city. Not something I'd personally do.
I'm not sure the point of your posts though, you start the thread agreeing that first home buyers shouldn't expect a 4x2 and now you're trying to prove there are affordable 4x2s out there... so which is it? Should or shouldn't they be able to afford these homes?
I'm not sure the point of your posts though, you start the thread agreeing that first home buyers shouldn't expect a 4x2 and now you're trying to prove there are affordable 4x2s out there... so which is it? Should or shouldn't they be able to afford these homes?
I can't say I've actually ever read a comment that was along the lines of "housing affordability is crap because I can't afford a 4x2", so it really sounds like this guy is just talking out his butt. I would say those replying to the news articles are the vocal minority... maybe a few dozen regular commenters vs 100,000 FHBs per year.... the guy has made some ridiculous generalisations painting a lot of people with 1 stroke.
Also a bit like the bulls always put words in the mouths of anyone who is short to medium term bearish, we are all cut from the same cloth, all expect a "crash". It happens both ways.
What? I think you just invalidated your entire argument! A fhb shouldn't expect to travel 1/2 an hour to work?
Wow! Talk about sense of entitlement...
Not bad I guess Dazz as long as you don't mind living 30-40km out of the city. Not something I'd personally do.
I'm not sure the point of your posts though, you start the thread agreeing that first home buyers shouldn't expect a 4x2 and now you're trying to prove there are affordable 4x2s out there... so which is it? Should or shouldn't they be able to afford these homes?
I can't say I've actually ever read a comment that was along the lines of "housing affordability is crap because I can't afford a 4x2", so it really sounds like this guy is just talking out his ****.
40km - 50km out of Perth with a fast train into the city and freeways all over the joint is the equivalent for amenity in my opinion as Epping in Sydney or Mordialloc in Melbourne.
Train gets you into the city in 40minutes. By car even in peak hour 1hour and 15 minutes is a reasonable estimate. Outside peak well under an hour, 40minutes odd.
That Perth closes down when the sun goes down and is shut on Sundays is a bit of a draw back but hey, you can't win them all...
I overlooked dazz's examples in Baldivis and surrounds but they are even more appropriate for first home buyers. Paying them off is well below the median rent in most of our states capitals. I have a bit of a pathalogical disorder that prevents me from looking at property more than 3km from the beach. 40 - 50km out of the city does ot bother me so much being from Sydney where crossing three suburbs can take you 45minutes.
Thats another thing about Perth, so many beaches it does not cost so much to live at one.
Again this does not mean it is a good investment. Indeed scarcity is what you look for in an investmet not abundance, but nonetheless it is a good place to live compared to Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane if you have a family and want a family home when it comes to houses.
I agree with Barnett. Places like below seem reasonable buys for FHBers. And being a smaller city but with trains twice as fast as Sydney/Melbourne living in Mandurah (70km out) is quicker to the CBD than say Campbelltown, Penrith, Cranbourne or Frankston.
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-cooloongup-107394019
$279k for 3x1. Not the best street appeal and Cooloongup isn't the greatest suburb. But looks unbeatable for proximity to transport, shopping and the beach for the price. The time it takes to get to the Perth CBD by train (<40 min) is the same as tram travel times from some Melbourne inner suburbs to their CBD.
This one's dearer and nicer (still <$300k). Not quite walking distance to train but handy to Malibu shops. http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-cooloongup-107316607
For a flat, there's a wider range of areas, and you shouldn't need to pay more than $260k for a 2 bedder reasonably close to the city - eg Tuart Hill
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-unit-wa-tuart+hill-106803714
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-unit-wa-tuart+hill-106909405
Bayswater/Maylands has a heap of $250k odd units eg http://www.realestate.com.au/property-townhouse-wa-bayswater-107273570 http://www.realestate.com.au/property-unit-wa-maylands-107242110
In the eastern states a 2 bedder like that a similar distance from the CBD might be $100k or more dearer. So the time when Perth was dear like Sydney seems to have passed.
One thing against Perth is its city planning because unlike Sydney or Melbourne most of it is post '60s and there's not so many local strip centres or corner stores. In Perth you can have train, beach or shops and can't be within walking distance of all three (like you can in Mordialloc). Whereas in parts of Melbourne you can. But partially offset is that Perth has better (though less extensive) trains and sometimes better buses.
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-cooloongup-107394019
$279k for 3x1. Not the best street appeal and Cooloongup isn't the greatest suburb. But looks unbeatable for proximity to transport, shopping and the beach for the price. The time it takes to get to the Perth CBD by train (<40 min) is the same as tram travel times from some Melbourne inner suburbs to their CBD.
This one's dearer and nicer (still <$300k). Not quite walking distance to train but handy to Malibu shops. http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-cooloongup-107316607
For a flat, there's a wider range of areas, and you shouldn't need to pay more than $260k for a 2 bedder reasonably close to the city - eg Tuart Hill
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-unit-wa-tuart+hill-106803714
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-unit-wa-tuart+hill-106909405
Bayswater/Maylands has a heap of $250k odd units eg http://www.realestate.com.au/property-townhouse-wa-bayswater-107273570 http://www.realestate.com.au/property-unit-wa-maylands-107242110
In the eastern states a 2 bedder like that a similar distance from the CBD might be $100k or more dearer. So the time when Perth was dear like Sydney seems to have passed.
One thing against Perth is its city planning because unlike Sydney or Melbourne most of it is post '60s and there's not so many local strip centres or corner stores. In Perth you can have train, beach or shops and can't be within walking distance of all three (like you can in Mordialloc). Whereas in parts of Melbourne you can. But partially offset is that Perth has better (though less extensive) trains and sometimes better buses.
How will they have time to enjoy the use of their cinema room and 65" 3D LCD if they have to travel so far to work each day
.....nothing.
.....no doubt.
.....no doubt again. You are one confused little bunny rabbit. You've been moaning on these boards about affordability for ages now, yet it takes less than 4 minutes to find examples of brand spanking new 4 x 2 brick and tile homes on their own block of land for less than 250K within a mainland capital city and STILL you find fault with it.
I guess it boils down to people like you like to B&M. Knock yourself out.
Q.E.D.
My first home cost $33,500 in Ivanhoe, Melbourne in 1976.
Don't know what it would be worth today - probably somewhere between $450,000 and $500,000. Back then, I worked 1 x day job and 2 x part time jobs to be able to afford it. Ate at Mum's most nights, tinned fish and boiled rice the other nights. Sheets pinned over the windows for the first couple of years until I gradually bought the material and made the curtains myself.
After I had been in the place for two years, my Mother & Sister bought sea grass matting for me for my Birthday.
It was all rather fun, and I enjoyed making a home out of the property.
Having been consistently involved with property since 1975 I have seen many people really push themselves to buy that first home. I can't say that I have really seen anyone refuse to buy what is available to them because they 'want it all' - most people do expect to work their way up the food chain but still want to be comfortable along the way.
Had a call from (one of my) property managers today. The central heating unit was not working. We joked for a few minutes - life would be a lot easier if we went back to the post-War expectation: A chip heater over the bath, an open fire place in the living area, a single bowl sink in a cabinet in the kitchen. No hot water service there, 'Mum' boiled the kettle for the hot water for the dishes.
Bare boards, if the tenant wanted floor coverings they brought their own rugs.
Yep! the Landlord & the Property Manager would have a great life as there would be nothing in the houses to go wrong
My Sister lived in a house like this in Canning Street in Carlton when she was studying at Melbourne Uni at about the time that I bought in Ivanhoe. WC outside the house across the unlit backyard, had to have access directly from the 'night lane' which ran across the back boundary. The terrace house slept about six students, plus one who lived under the stairs. Ah, yes, those were the days!
Wish I'd never sold my first house. Didn't really have to sell it to buy the next one, and within a year of buying that next one we had saved the same amount of money that we had realised on the sale of the Ivanhoe townhouse.
It is easy to romance the stone, but the truth is that buying property has never been 'easy' but it's not hard, either.
It's all about priorities. Getting into that first property takes a bit of effort - for a while, but not for ever. After the first one, upgrading properties is relatively easy. Relative to buying the first.
Let's face it, even renting a property takes planning, money and effort.
First Home Buyers come in all shapes and sizes. They are not all twenty something year olds with no dependants.
When I worked as a Buyer Agent, my favourite (but seriously most difficult) customer was a 78 year old First Home Buyer. This lady was not going to buy just any unit, her list of criteria was extensive and she was not going to compromise.
Of course, after nearly nine months of looking, she did compromise and bought a Mission Brown unit and was pleased with her choice.
But nobody says that you have to compromise, that you have to have the Mission Brown, if you don't want to.
For me, Mission Brown is the colour of gold, throw in a bit of amber bottle glass and I am in heaven!
There are plenty of opportunities out there, for first home buyers or any other buyers. I cannot see that there is anything to be gained by taking the slightest notice of what other people do or don't do.
I had fun living in a place with bare floors and windows and thought that I was terrible clever. Someone else could think of nothing worse than to live that way. Each to their own
Cheers
Kristine
Don't know what it would be worth today - probably somewhere between $450,000 and $500,000. Back then, I worked 1 x day job and 2 x part time jobs to be able to afford it. Ate at Mum's most nights, tinned fish and boiled rice the other nights. Sheets pinned over the windows for the first couple of years until I gradually bought the material and made the curtains myself.
After I had been in the place for two years, my Mother & Sister bought sea grass matting for me for my Birthday.
It was all rather fun, and I enjoyed making a home out of the property.
Having been consistently involved with property since 1975 I have seen many people really push themselves to buy that first home. I can't say that I have really seen anyone refuse to buy what is available to them because they 'want it all' - most people do expect to work their way up the food chain but still want to be comfortable along the way.
Had a call from (one of my) property managers today. The central heating unit was not working. We joked for a few minutes - life would be a lot easier if we went back to the post-War expectation: A chip heater over the bath, an open fire place in the living area, a single bowl sink in a cabinet in the kitchen. No hot water service there, 'Mum' boiled the kettle for the hot water for the dishes.
Bare boards, if the tenant wanted floor coverings they brought their own rugs.
Yep! the Landlord & the Property Manager would have a great life as there would be nothing in the houses to go wrong
My Sister lived in a house like this in Canning Street in Carlton when she was studying at Melbourne Uni at about the time that I bought in Ivanhoe. WC outside the house across the unlit backyard, had to have access directly from the 'night lane' which ran across the back boundary. The terrace house slept about six students, plus one who lived under the stairs. Ah, yes, those were the days!
Wish I'd never sold my first house. Didn't really have to sell it to buy the next one, and within a year of buying that next one we had saved the same amount of money that we had realised on the sale of the Ivanhoe townhouse.
It is easy to romance the stone, but the truth is that buying property has never been 'easy' but it's not hard, either.
It's all about priorities. Getting into that first property takes a bit of effort - for a while, but not for ever. After the first one, upgrading properties is relatively easy. Relative to buying the first.
Let's face it, even renting a property takes planning, money and effort.
First Home Buyers come in all shapes and sizes. They are not all twenty something year olds with no dependants.
When I worked as a Buyer Agent, my favourite (but seriously most difficult) customer was a 78 year old First Home Buyer. This lady was not going to buy just any unit, her list of criteria was extensive and she was not going to compromise.
Of course, after nearly nine months of looking, she did compromise and bought a Mission Brown unit and was pleased with her choice.
But nobody says that you have to compromise, that you have to have the Mission Brown, if you don't want to.
For me, Mission Brown is the colour of gold, throw in a bit of amber bottle glass and I am in heaven!
There are plenty of opportunities out there, for first home buyers or any other buyers. I cannot see that there is anything to be gained by taking the slightest notice of what other people do or don't do.
I had fun living in a place with bare floors and windows and thought that I was terrible clever. Someone else could think of nothing worse than to live that way. Each to their own
Cheers
Kristine
I have a couple of problems with this sentiment, Belbo.
You have neglected to consider the technological advances and subsequent dramatic increases in the productive capacity of the world since our parents time.
40 years ago people were using typewriters, snail mail, bankbooks, corded power tools or hand tools to build, robotics were non existant, telephones were landlines etc - the list is endless.
Today communication/documentation is freely accessible; emails are delivered in a split second, we have online banking/cards; power tools are fantastic, cheap, and battery operated; robots build most cars/whitegoods/electronics; mobile phones are everywhere.
A logical person would think that, given the ridiculously improved productive capacity of the world, where machines do most of our work for us and many obstacles to production have been removed by technology, that not only would a single salary be sufficient, but that it would be excessive.
I agree that globalisation has severely affected Australia (to our great detriment) but consider this question seriously as an exercise - If Australia were to close its borders to absolutely everybody, importing only things taht we could not produce ourselves and exporting our excess, would we decline, survive, or thrive? Would we still need two incomes in order to sustain our standard of living?
China has such an excess of capacity that they alone could supply every single item required for consumption for the entire world. (I watched an economics lecture on youtube dealing with just this by some harvard professor, I'll link it if you're interested). The scarcity of goods and services for the world is entirely artificial, and created by those with wealth in order to preserve and grow their wealth.
We have Aussies bludging at home watching Oprah that should be working in factories. Rather than spend money building factories, we give these people a dole payment to spend on imported goods. We have an excess of all resources needed for self sufficiency, and rather than use them ourselves, for ourselves, we sell them in their raw form to foreigners who then sell them back. There is no need to compete with the Chinese in manufacture if we don't want to - that would be a race to the bottom in any event.
So I don't exactly disagree with you - the world certainly is different - but accepting it as it is as the only form in which it can exist is fatalistic and illogical. Imo what has changed is that our "leaders" are not fit to lead our country in the right direction, and our population is fast becoming a pack of spoilt, detatched brats - ignorant, entitled, apathetic, distracted, morally bankrupt, bought off with pretty iphones and little sense of community or national pride.
That's the real reason that things have become "hard". Our population are mostly a bunch of short sighted, self serving twats, and since our elected officials don't fall too far from that particular tree, they've done the same on an international level and sold this country, and future generations, out.
Interesting piece on the profile of First Home buyers and renters posted below for your perusal
It would be interesting to see more recent figures also
Profile of first home buyers
Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics, Housing Finance, Australia, Jan 2010, cat. no. 5609.0, ABS, Canberra, 2010; Australian Bureau of Statistics, Microdata: Income and Housing, Basic and Expanded CURF on CD-ROM/RADL, Australia, 2007-08, cat. no. 6541.0.30.001, ABS, Canberra, 2009; Australian Bureau of Statistics, Housing Occupancy and Costs, 2007-08, cat. no. 4130.0, ABS, Canberra, 2009.
Profile of renters
Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics, Australian Social Trends, 2008, cat. no. 4102.0, ABS, Canberra, 2008; Australian Government Department of Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs, Annual report 2008 - 2009, Commonwealth of Australia, Canberra, 2009; Australian Government Department of Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs, Housing Assistance
Act 1996: Annual report 2006 - 07, Commonwealth of Australia, Canberra, 2009; Australian Bureau of Statistics, Housing Occupancy and Costs, 2007 - 08, cat. no. 4130.0, ABS, Canberra, 2009; Australian Bureau of Statistics, Housing Occupancy and Costs, 2005-06, cat. no. 4130.0.55.001, ABS, Canberra, 2007; further sources referenced in Appendix 2, Table 5.2.
The rationale behind the First Home Owners Scheme
It would be interesting to see more recent figures also
Profile of first home buyers
Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics, Housing Finance, Australia, Jan 2010, cat. no. 5609.0, ABS, Canberra, 2010; Australian Bureau of Statistics, Microdata: Income and Housing, Basic and Expanded CURF on CD-ROM/RADL, Australia, 2007-08, cat. no. 6541.0.30.001, ABS, Canberra, 2009; Australian Bureau of Statistics, Housing Occupancy and Costs, 2007-08, cat. no. 4130.0, ABS, Canberra, 2009.
Profile of renters
Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics, Australian Social Trends, 2008, cat. no. 4102.0, ABS, Canberra, 2008; Australian Government Department of Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs, Annual report 2008 - 2009, Commonwealth of Australia, Canberra, 2009; Australian Government Department of Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs, Housing Assistance
Act 1996: Annual report 2006 - 07, Commonwealth of Australia, Canberra, 2009; Australian Bureau of Statistics, Housing Occupancy and Costs, 2007 - 08, cat. no. 4130.0, ABS, Canberra, 2009; Australian Bureau of Statistics, Housing Occupancy and Costs, 2005-06, cat. no. 4130.0.55.001, ABS, Canberra, 2007; further sources referenced in Appendix 2, Table 5.2.
The rationale behind the First Home Owners Scheme