Sharp drop for economy IMF warns

[Deltaberry]

Absolutely Daniel.

When I was studying, I topped this very nation, had scholarships to every university in this country and would've been paid to walk in to any degree I wanted.

When I graduated, all my friends in Hong Kong, China and Singapore asked me why I don't work for the govenrment - because in those countries people have great prospects, get well-remunerated and people consider it an honour to work for the government.

I told them I'd get more respect being a plumber here for

a) making more money
b) retiring faster
c) having greater prospects in life

PS: I'm not a plumber

 

[Ideo]

Absolutely Daniel.

When I was studying, I topped this very nation, had scholarships to every university in this country and could have walked in to any degree I wanted.

When I graduated, all my friends in Hong Kong, China and Singapore asked me why I don't work for the govenrment - because in those countries people have great prospects, get well-remunerated and people consider it an honour to work for the government.

I told them I'd get more respect being a plumber here for

a) making more money
b) retiring faster
c) having greater prospects in life

PS: I'm not a plumber

Australia has a strong anti-intellectual ethos.

It's fine to make money using your hands.

If you use your brain you are somehow a lesser person.

Until it fixes that we will always be a second rate country.

 

[tom32]

Australia has a strong anti-intellectual ethos.

It's fine to make money using your hands.

If you use your brain you are somehow a lesser person.

Until it fixes that we will always be a second rate country.

I am not so sure about that.

If working with your hands was such a popular and prestigious past time in Australia then I suspect people who worked as skilled trades etc would get less money than those who are educated.

I think tongue in cheek we Australians like to deride ourselves as we get more educated (I know I do!) but this is a more general thing then just education. Australians are not typically the sort of people who like to self promote themselves.

It is precisely because we have it rammed down our throats like in other countries that you need to get educated that so many get university degrees and the competition is higher for fewer jobs in say finance than it is for say pipe welding in central qld.

Australians have skilled up too far in some cases and those who are prepared to get in and work hard in tough conditions make a lot of money here because there is no one else wanting to replace them cause it is crappy work. Rather than in those countries where there is a queu of people waiting to take their jobs hence they get paid little in that case.

I think this is why perhaps justifiably those in those kind of manual labour jobs tend to be more reluctant to support immigration policy where as those who get the same kind of money on the global market place as they do in Australia are pretty relaxed about the whole immigration idea on the whole.

 

[Ausprop]

nice logic Tom - went to give you some kudos but aparently I have given yu too much already which is weird because I cant ever recall doing that!

 

[StefanA]

I think if public servants want to be paid private sector salaries, they should also accept private sector risk - so they get remunerated based on the results of their performance.
- If they don't see GFC coming, and the nation goes into a crisis, they have their salary cut 75% or are sacked.
- If they don't create the economic conditions for the private sector to flourish, they have pay cuts at least equal to the hardship experienced by the private sector.

This BS of public servants having greater job security and remuneration than the people who pay their wages and/or carry the risk has to stop.

Further, if left and green politicians think their policies are that good for the economy, let them have their salaries tied to economic performance under their governance.

I'd be happy for public servants to receive higher salaries along the lines of Singapore if we also had Singapore's tax structure (17% cap on corporate tax and 20% on personal income tax) in addition to adequate infrastructure and public services.

 

[wobbycarly]

I am not so sure about that.

If working with your hands was such a popular and prestigious past time in Australia then I suspect people who worked as skilled trades etc would get less money than those who are educated.

I think tongue in cheek we Australians like to deride ourselves as we get more educated (I know I do!) but this is a more general thing then just education. Australians are not typically the sort of people who like to self promote themselves.

It is precisely because we have it rammed down our throats like in other countries that you need to get educated that so many get university degrees and the competition is higher for fewer jobs in say finance than it is for say pipe welding in central qld.

Australians have skilled up too far in some cases and those who are prepared to get in and work hard in tough conditions make a lot of money here because there is no one else wanting to replace them cause it is crappy work. Rather than in those countries where there is a queu of people waiting to take their jobs hence they get paid little in that case.

I think this is why perhaps justifiably those in those kind of manual labour jobs tend to be more reluctant to support immigration policy where as those who get the same kind of money on the global market place as they do in Australia are pretty relaxed about the whole immigration idea on the whole.

Very true. As I was going through the late secondary and into the tertiary realm, there was no consideration AT ALL for a trade qualification! And my degree (B App Sci) has been useless to me professionally.

 

[StefanA]

Several of my partner's sons' mates are engineering students.
I've helped them with several projects.
None of them knew how to hold a screwdriver or hammer efficiently, or had ever used a torque wrench. They were essentially clueless on how to best apply additional leverage to a tight nut.
I can only wonder at how tradesmen who actually do the work engineers delegate, snow them about how long a job will take under specific conditions.

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

and yet one forward indicator is ticking ever so slightly upwards:

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/2172...ce-bill-evans-melbourne-institute-wbc-wes.htm

Australia has gone through alot this year with the queensland and vic flooding and the japanese nuclear incident. These one off factors had significant negative economic consequences, but they are only one offs. As we cycle through year on year comparisons going into 2012, that cycling will be off a lower 2011 base, hence things could start to pick up a bit in 2012.

RBA has gone from a tightening bias to a neutral bias which could include a couple of interest rate reductions (given that the slight tightening bias was at 4.75%, one would assume a neutral bias will be less).

These interest rates reductions if they come will act as a nice boost, and if they dont, well at least consumers/businesses are starting to believe that interest rates have stabilised (the constant increases in both rba and bank additional rate rises, really helped to knock the excess stuffing out of the economy).


So buckle up, its not all constant doom and gloom

 

[lizzie]

I'd be happy for public servants to receive higher salaries along the lines of Singapore if we also had Singapore's tax structure (17% cap on corporate tax and 20% on personal income tax) in addition to adequate infrastructure and public services.

And their ratio of politicians per capita ... less politicians and pay the worthwhile politicians more. Australia has one of the highest government ratios in the western world.

 

[willair]

.

The Treasurer, Wayne Swan, who is about to go to Washington for the annual meetings of the IMF and World Bank, said the update was a "stark warning" that indicated the global economy had entered "a dangerous new phase".

When Sideshow Wayne thinks Australia and the global ecomony have entered a dangerous new phase just like 1974,1982,1990,2000-2008-
with massive lack of consumer confidence,the start of the failure of many small businesses,and growing unemployment numbers no matter how they stack the deck you would have to be worried..

 

[willair]

I can only wonder at how tradesmen who actually do the work engineers delegate, snow them about how long a job will take under specific conditions.

Very very simple,you go in with a very high quote ,on your terms with 50% upfront before you walk on site..btw there a person who used that same line many years ago in this site..

 

[tom32]

Several of my partner's sons' mates are engineering students.
I've helped them with several projects.
None of them knew how to hold a screwdriver or hammer efficiently, or had ever used a torque wrench. They were essentially clueless on how to best apply additional leverage to a tight nut.
I can only wonder at how tradesmen who actually do the work engineers delegate, snow them about how long a job will take under specific conditions.

On the whole engineers may delegate work but they rely on supervisors / foreman who then rely on lead hands to actually get the work done efficiently.

Engineers may program the work and resource it but usually don't get involved with driving it, because as you say they are not competent (you see that, I have learnt how to spell competent!) to do so and typically have the wrong personality. As with most things there are of course exceptions to this.

 

[tom32]

nice logic Tom - went to give you some kudos but aparently I have given yu too much already which is weird because I cant ever recall doing that!

Checking my control panel, turns out back on the 18th of April 2011 you gave me kudos.

You must hand it out pretty sparingly there Ausprop.

 

[josko]

When Sideshow Wayne thinks Australia and the global ecomony have entered a dangerous new phase just like 1974,1982,1990,2000-2008-
with massive lack of consumer confidence,the start of the failure of many small businesses,and growing unemployment numbers no matter how they stack the deck you would have to be worried..

You're not talking about THE Wayne Swan, The Finance Minister of the Year, according to Euromoney?

It is completely laughable and a slap in the face to the likes of Peter Costello and Paul Keating.

Deltaberry,

You give some great feedback and perspective.

Our biggest porblem at the moment is our lack of focus on this big issue. With policies like The Co2 Tax, the NBN, the Refugee non-solution....the bigger picture is and has been, overlooked.

Our politicians are so busy scrambling over each other it's pathetic. Many of us have been watching the downturn in the economy for the past 12 months happen all around us, while Wayne Swan prefers to keep his head n the sand.

Only in August:

Wayne Swan has maintained his line that all is well in Australia's "patchwork" economy, with only a few minor patches of difficulty to spoil his vision of an economy that can readily absorb a flood levy, a new mining tax and a great big new carbon tax'n'money-go-round on top of massively wasteful spending programs undertaken in the name of fiscal stimulus.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain this stance, and the related promise to return the budget to surplus by 2012-13.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...s-and-wayne-swan/story-e6frg9ix-1226116577412

I can't see how we can avoid a huge downturn as the RBA, in my mere opinion, is completely useless in it's formula for gauging inflation....will perhaps "catch on" when it is all too late.

While we MAY have had an excuse with the first GFC- There is absolutely NO excuse to blinded by this next one.

Aaron, I have heard many UK's have come over here and the queue is long.

Stefan A- I agree with what you say. Most of the Public Sector workers I know (Council and Education Dpt) ARE getting paid more than anyone in private sector small business. What I would give to be able to pay myself 12% Superannuation and have 1 day off in 10. Let alone start at 9 and finish at 4.

In contrast, how can a non-degree Council Worker earn more than a University Educated nurse on shift work?

There is absolutely NO incentive for us to grow our business. We have knocked back big contracts, so as not to take on more staff and increase our overheads. In fact, a close friends who turns over 100x plus more, has confirmed what we thought we knew: It is simply not worth it.

I just can't see any confidence being restored to the consumer until Labor, The Greens and the Independants are given their walking shoes.

Regards JO

 

[josko]

Here we go:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...ls-rate-cut-hope/story-e6frg926-1226143053874

RBA Kills Rate-cut hope:

THE Reserve Bank's deputy governor Ric Battellino has dashed hopes for interest rate cuts, saying markets are mistaken in their belief that Australia's economy will be dragged down by the US.

Mr Battellino said Australia's fortunes were being shaped by China and it had scarcely skipped a beat since the global financial crisis.

Blinkers......

Regards JO

 

[Ideo]

I think if public servants want to be paid private sector salaries, they should also accept private sector risk - so they get remunerated based on the results of their performance.
- If they don't see GFC coming, and the nation goes into a crisis, they have their salary cut 75% or are sacked.
- If they don't create the economic conditions for the private sector to flourish, they have pay cuts at least equal to the hardship experienced by the private sector.

This BS of public servants having greater job security and remuneration than the people who pay their wages and/or carry the risk has to stop.

Further, if left and green politicians think their policies are that good for the economy, let them have their salaries tied to economic performance under their governance.

I'd be happy for public servants to receive higher salaries along the lines of Singapore if we also had Singapore's tax structure (17% cap on corporate tax and 20% on personal income tax) in addition to adequate infrastructure and public services.

Can you please work out the difference between public servants and politicians.

They are two separate things.

And, why should some guy working for State Forestry have his income slashed because of some federal government p.s. didn't see the GFC coming (like most in the private sector I might add)? What good does that achieve? How is he in any way responsible for this?

Same as a Nurse. Hardly their fault.

 

[rachels]

I just can't see any confidence being restored to the consumer until Labor, The Greens and the Independants are given their walking shoes.

Regards JO

I'm tired of your pro LIBERAL posts, get over it, Labour are here for a few more years so deal with it!

 

[Aaron Sice]

You're not talking about THE Wayne Swan, The Finance Minister of the Year, according to Euromoney?

It is completely laughable and a slap in the face to the likes of Peter Costello and Paul Keating.

it highlights the direction of the undercurrent. in fact, it leaves no doubt.

 

[Aaron Sice]

I'm tired of your pro LIBERAL posts, get over it, Labour are here for a few more years so deal with it!

No!

We want the stupid farkers out. Now.

 

[Aaron Sice]

Blinkers......

what;s odd is that they say it's up, it's down, it's up, it's down, we're cautios and yet official cash rates are coming up to a record holding pattern period.