should i hold or sell with loss??

[Kennethkohsg]

Hi Kenneth

Can I ask you I you had known in '93 that you were going to loose watever the amount were up to 2000 or sell and buy back in at the same price (or close) just before it boomed what would you have done. Also how different would the figures have looked if you had been able to do exactly that.

********************************************
Dear Handyhandy,

1. None of us can be sure how things will actually evolve out in future in our own real life. Thus, I think your question is "theoretical" in this respect.

2. As I could afford to hold then and the paper loss does not really bothers me at all, despite adversely affecting my cashflow for the time being. Thus, your question does not also apply here in this context too.

3. I have allowed and correctly anticipated this unfortuante scenario when I first make the decision to (safely) invest in 1993 and to further re-invest in 1994. I do not think of myself as a " high risk-taker". In my case, my conservative investing thinking, has "saved" me in this situation and has continued to serve me well to date though I may appear as a "high risk taker" to some of you, probably due to my high gearing ratio and efficient use of my monies for risk investment/management.

4. However, it's will be totally different thing if I have to "cut loss" as a last resort then. My conservative thinking will not allow me to, in the first place. If such things should happen in future, I mean that I have become too complacent with myself and my future property investments.

5. Thus, a lot has to do with one's personality and investing strategy.

6. For your kind update, please.

7. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Dear GeorgeSA,

1. I've read that rental vacancy rate for the Sydney Property market has falled from 3.6% to 2.5% in 2005 with rents increasing at 4% in 2005. There is also an increasing shortage of rental properties, which is likely to result in further rental increase.

http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22564

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16902928%5E25658,00.html

2. Is this actually happening in your case? If no, what are you doing about it? Has your rental income increase and how does your new figures now stack up?

3. Furthermore, despite the present market weak sentiments, housing shortage is being reported in the Sydney property market. I believe that the housing shortage will soon be translated into demand once the local economy and employment levels in Sydney start to improve. Who knows that this may well lead to the start of the new property cycle in the near future, which you are looking for?

4. For your kind update and due considerations, please.

5. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[tigerGT]

Hi Kenneth,

When i initially rented out my place i was getting 240 gross. Then after commision was taken out i was ending up wth a bit less.
However around 7 months ago I rented the place out to my relatives who now pay me only 215 a week and I am actually a little to embaressed to increase the rent on them.. I dont know how to go about doing that but the fact that they are paying their rent on time every week and really taking care of the place is a pretty good thing so i dont mind the less rent...

In regards to my situation I am still paying interest only on this loan and the house is still for sale with an offer of 315k which i declined ( if u can recall i purchase property for 350 + SD + RENO) so 315 is just way too low..

None the less I have 20% deposit for another property now however I am still deciding whether to buy. I am looking to buy in may next year... Sydney...

So really now nothing new but I just wait and see..

thanks for your post Kenneth

Georges

 

[see_change]

the house is still for sale with an offer of 315k which i declined ( if u can recall i purchase property for 350 + SD + RENO) so 315 is just way too low..

Georges

Given that most of the agents I've talked to say the market has dropped about 15 % since the peak ( In Sydney ), it's probably about what you can expect at the moment.

See Change

 

[DavidMc]

you said to that you are in the top tax bracket (paying tax of 50%). This would mean you were earning more than $70,000pa in 2004/5 and if in 2005/6 more than $95,000p.a. If I was in this situation I'd hold, change the loan to interest only and accept the substantial negative gearing benefits (I acknowledge you are still down each year in cashflow but eventually there'll be capital gains to outweigh this).

The change in the tax brackets will mean the negative gearing benefit will be getting even worse. Then when the rate goes up again to $125k in the year after, worse again.

Has eveyone done the calc's on the new tax scales? I think it'll be turning my slightly positive portfolio into negative...

 

[DavidMc]

Does it really matter when i sell? If i make a 100k property and then buy another house then the other house will be worth 100k more anyway. So if i sell and buy in the same market then i have not really lost yet untill I sell the second house. Do you see my point?

This would be true if property was the only asset class that existed. As this isn't the case, I don't think so. It does matter as you lose 'opportunity cost'.

It is my view that George should stop thinking that he has a 350k asset that it now worth 315k. I say forget what was paid for it (for the purposes of determining it's future worth as an asset in your portfolio), and look at his position today - you hold a 315k asset. Then analyse it's viability as an asset on that basis looking ahead with predicted growth and expenses etc.

If it's determined that 315k (or whatever the equity is in the asset) could be doing something better in another asset, then move on (you'll be able to claim a capital loss. Not that having a loss is ever a good thing - but the sooner you do this the greater you'll be able to claim back given the tax scales are changing).

If it's determined that it's still the best thing to do with your $ (considering LVR, the high transaction costs and maybe you have a good feeling about the Sydney market ahead?), then leave it.

Other assets to compare against - Shares, MFs, Cash, Listed Property Trusts, Other Investment Property (QLD, WA, NZ?? I dunno?), a business? Both the future growth, yield but most importantly LVR will determine where the best place to put your dough is.

 

[DavidMc]

Best of luck with your decision George, and thank you for showing me (a young investor) that property doesn't always go up every year and that this can happen. Sure, I've read it, but now I've seen it.

 

[Monopoly]

Hi Kenneth,

When i initially rented out my place i was getting 240 gross. Then after commision was taken out i was ending up wth a bit less.
However around 7 months ago I rented the place out to my relatives who now pay me only 215 a week and I am actually a little to embaressed to increase the rent on them..

Hmmm....215 is a great deal less than if you were paying commission to an agent to manage the property. But then again, I guess having "relatives" who are looking after the place as opposed to total strangers is worth the reduced income. So why are you complaining??? Because the light has finally come on (knock, knock....ahh hello....) business and friends/family is a bitter cocktail (at best). Quit whinging about being "embarrassed" and make up your mind, you are either a property investor for the money or for the fun of it, either way, determine what your goals are and let those goals dictate how you will handle the less desirable tasks required of you as an INVESTOR!!! You say you don't mind the reduced rent, yet you post about it, so perhaps it does not sit as well as you want to believe it does (honesty with yourself is a number one priority).

No one said being in business was all fun, there are some very unenivable tasks that come with the territory, that need to be addressed, and if you can't address them, take up a new hobbie!!!

I hope I have not mistaken your identity GeorgesA and TigerGT in saying this but.....

Selling at a loss because you have made a mistake and purchased at the wrong time, or for a high price and/or both is unfortunate and I can empathise as it is a genuine singular mistake.....BUT.....to prolong/continue your mistakes because you don't want to be seen as "the bad guy" but rather allow weakness to override common (financial) sense, then I'm sorry to say but I have absolutely no sympathy for you whatsoever!!!

Maybe it's just me, but this thread has gone on for sooooooooo long and has served absolutely no purpose, except maybe to frustrate the daylights out of me each and every time I read yet another bit of dribble. Seech is right, the Sydney (and most other) property market has dropped, and 315 (under the circumstances) is not that unrealistic.

Let me ask you this George/Tiger, what price would you accept??? Remember, be honest with yourself first and foremost, before you attempt to fool others with your ambiguity.

 

[bigfella966]

Maybe it's just me, but this thread has gone on for sooooooooo long and has served absolutely no purpose, except maybe to frustrate the daylights out of me each and every time I read yet another bit of dribble.

Hey there Monopoly,
I wish you'd stop beating around the bush and tell us what you really think

BF
(Just adding another bit of dribble )

 

[Kennethkohsg]

OK, instead of talking about returns, let's crunch some numbers and plot them:

From memory, and I am tired,

Borrowed
350k
Plus reno and stamp duty
20k
rent
$210 /wk
Rate
~6.8%
Rpts
23000

Have a look at the attachment. It shows George won't make money for 10 years, and then it will only be a return of 5% pa. and that's before subtracting selling costs. In the meantime, he has a third of his wage tied up.

Of course, my plot is dependent on growth:
I used the following, which is generous considering growth has been negative for 2 years already:
year
1 0%
2 0%
3 3%
4 3%
5 5%
6 5%
7 5%
8 5%
etc

Inflation stays under 3% and rates stay under 7.5%


For George to do better than 5%pa over 10 years, he is gambling there will be a big boom before then. The RBA is determined to keep inflation and rates low. If inflation is kept low, it is my opinion that it is too much of a gamble to hold such a negatively geared property.

There is always the probability prices will underperform the figures above, and he will be losing money for 20 years.


Personally, I think there isn't enough reward for risk.

And there are better opportunities out there. George could leverage into a managed fund such as Navra and be doing 18%pa. after tax. Or select shares carefully and do the same.

*****************************************************
Dear TheFirstbruce,

1. What are your own underlying key assumptions used in your calculations?

2. What are the real losses for GeorgeSA if he chooses to stay status quo or/and keep the property, instead?

3. Sometimes in life, monetary gains per se, is not the whole issue at stake.
There are other more important things in life than $$ calculations.

4. Personally and as what GeorgeSA has confirmed previously, the lessons which he has learnt from this thread, is far more valuable than what the so called calculcated "loss" (or/and the projected opportunity costs) that you are trying to project for him here.

5. Speaking in concrete terms, the "projected loss" is no "real loss" per se unless you or/and GeorgeSa wants to make it so, for himself, in anticipation of your/his own fears and so-called "loss" of the (equally elusive) opportunity.

6. If GeorgeSA truly understand the full implications of "TIME" vs ""TIMING" in the property investing games, he will be far "richer" off in the long run if he is able to understand/"listen" to himself accurately and adopt the "correct" strategy which is appropiate for himself, internalising the lessons to be learnt from his own first property investing experience here.

7. Finally, please understand it is GeorgeSA who has to decide for himself which option he will take and that he is prepared to fully commit himself to bear the full consequences for his own actions. We can all support him and be beside him in spirit, but GeorgeSA will have to finally make that "difficult" decision and live with its consequences whaterver its outcome, not you or me, as much as we can all be equally concerned about his welfare.

8. For your kind update and due considerations, please.

9. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Best of luck with your decision George, and thank you for showing me (a young investor) that property doesn't always go up every year and that this can happen. Sure, I've read it, but now I've seen it.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dear DomCC1,

Congratulations... now that you have seen it.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Hmmm....215 is a great deal less than if you were paying commission to an agent to manage the property. But then again, I guess having "relatives" who are looking after the place as opposed to total strangers is worth the reduced income. So why are you complaining??? Because the light has finally come on (knock, knock....ahh hello....) business and friends/family is a bitter cocktail (at best). Quit whinging about being "embarrassed" and make up your mind, you are either a property investor for the money or for the fun of it, either way, determine what your goals are and let those goals dictate how you will handle the less desirable tasks required of you as an INVESTOR!!! You say you don't mind the reduced rent, yet you post about it, so perhaps it does not sit as well as you want to believe it does (honesty with yourself is a number one priority).

No one said being in business was all fun, there are some very unenivable tasks that come with the territory, that need to be addressed, and if you can't address them, take up a new hobbie!!!

I hope I have not mistaken your identity GeorgesA and TigerGT in saying this but.....

Selling at a loss because you have made a mistake and purchased at the wrong time, or for a high price and/or both is unfortunate and I can empathise as it is a genuine singular mistake.....BUT.....to prolong/continue your mistakes because you don't want to be seen as "the bad guy" but rather allow weakness to override common (financial) sense, then I'm sorry to say but I have absolutely no sympathy for you whatsoever!!!

Maybe it's just me, but this thread has gone on for sooooooooo long and has served absolutely no purpose, except maybe to frustrate the daylights out of me each and every time I read yet another bit of dribble. Seech is right, the Sydney (and most other) property market has dropped, and 315 (under the circumstances) is not that unrealistic.

Let me ask you this George/Tiger, what price would you accept??? Remember, be honest with yourself first and foremost, before you attempt to fool others with your ambiguity.

************************************************
Dear Monopoly,

1. I think from your a/m post, you are beginning to get "too emotionally involved" in this discussion.

2. It may be a simple decision for you (and for me), but it may be one of most important decision that GeorgeSA is learning to make for himself, having to bear the full consequences for his decision-making and this being his first property investment. Perhaps, GeorgeSa may need more time and his own space to make required decision, so as to achieved a better internal and external self congruency and between his own thoughts and actions.

3. You have mentioned about GeorgeSA's "inconsistencies" in his own thinking and actions shown so far. Perhaps, GeorgeSA is still trying to sort himself out internally or/and acting under some form of pressure in his life, making his present decision stick?

4. Honestly speaking, I find/"feel" your a/m post to be quite direct and to a certain extent, "too forceful" for GeorgeSA, at this point in time.

5. I know that you are concerned about GeorgeSA and his welfare... but if you are getting "impatent" and "angry" (with yourself or/and with GerogeSA), following this thread, then may I humbly suggest that you check yourself first before posting your next message to GeorgeSA.

6. I think and I sincerely respect that GeorgeSA has every right to make his own decision on his own, without anyone of us "confronting" him or/and adding "undue pressure" on him, in our attempt and eagerness to help him make the 'right" decision for himself.

7. So far, GeorgeSA has managed to "stick" to his same own decision, even though it was a different out from what I believed is "best" for him, from my own perspective. I respect that decision and I am happy for him;- although I may not personally agree with him myself.

8. Further to his last few posts, I am still trying to understand his own "unique" line of thinking, myself.

9. Let us be patient and prepared to hear GeorgeSA out on his own terms and time and pace, please.

10. For your kind considerations, please.

11. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[Les]

G'day Kenneth,

I believe GeorgeSA is another member altogether - the member posting here is TigerGT (aka George).


George (TigerGT),
As you can see, there is a whole raft of different ideas coming from a host of well-intentioned individuals. NONE of which are necessarily right, or necessarily wrong, but, hopefully, ONE of them will strike a chord with you.

In essence, this IS your choice. There have been a number of posts putting different ideas, scenario's, possibilities - but, in the end, it is YOUR call - based on where you are at, what you think is best, and what is the best decision you can live with. The future is close to impossible to read - things happen, making good choices into bad ones (or vice versa).

I wish you well with your choice. Keep in mind, even making NO choice is a choice in itself - maybe not the best, and maybe not the worst - but in the end, you will live with the consequences of whatever choice you make. Hopefully, the various responses here have given you some idea of "what is best for you at this time".

Good luck,

Regards,

 

[Monopoly]

KOH,

I think that perhaps YOU are the one who is "emotionally involved" with this thread, or rather, are taking on George/TigerGT's case too seriously. Personally, I couldn't give a rats; I'm sitting here in fits of laughter. I just have a tendency to call "a spade a spade" at times especially when I think it serves a greater purpose than patronising posts which do nothing to contribute to one's learning (in this case, being for George/Tiger's benefit).

I appreciate the fact that you are trying to be helpful, as are many others here, but it has dragged out for so long only to go round in circles. Which clearly indicates (to me) that albeit he has benefitted from reading the opinions of others, and maybe even having gained some therapeutic benefit in bearing his soul re his misfortunate property purchase, but his indecisiveness after 12 pages and over 100 posts clearly screams, the full impact of his supposed learnt lessons have yet to be fully absorbed. I mean, after all the comments (mostly yours KOH) George/Tiger keeps coming back to the same corner.....oh but wait, NO..he has put it on the market (well he was going to do that anyway; if you read his first few posts, his mind was made up even before the thread got to page 2) he was just using the forum as a sounding board. He has learnt NOTHING, and your lengthy empathetic posts have been (IMO) totally in vain. And FYI, I was one of the very first posters who actually said "ultimately, it is your decision" and wished him well. That is unchanged, I respect that it is HIS decision, and I do wish him all the best, I just refuse to treat him like a child, even if his irrational thinking demonstrates that his logic is in that mindset at present.

As for what I choose to read, I'll be the judge of that, but thanks for the tip, I'll bear it in mind next time I come across a thread of this length where the last post reads identical to the first!!!

Finally, I hope you eventually figure out George/Tiger's thinking for yourself, and that if/when you do so, might be able to offer some constructive criticism, which may set him straight.

Good luck,

Jo

 

[Monopoly]

I believe GeorgeSA is another member altogether - the member posting here is TigerGT (aka George).

From the onset of this thread, TigerGT was posting as GeorgeSA was he not??? I may be wrong, and if so, my apologies to you George, however your choice of nick was not the issue, more the context of your posts which prompted my (what may appear to some) inappropriate post.

Please understand George, I mean no disrespect, and I DO wish you all the best.

Cheers,

Jo

 

[Kennethkohsg]

There is always the probability prices will underperform the figures above, and he will be losing money for 20 years.


Personally, I think there isn't enough reward for risk.

And there are better opportunities out there. George could leverage into a managed fund such as Navra and be doing 18%pa. after tax. Or select shares carefully and do the same.

*************************************************
Dear thefirsbruce,

1. Just for the fun and sake of (strictly) having a purely academic argument:

a. You says," There is always the probability prices will underperform the figures above, and he will be losing money for 20 years. "
To rebut your argument, your critic would easily say that the probability is also such as it will "over-perform" and thus "... making (more) money..."

b. You says, "better" opportunities, your critic can also says, "seemingly better", then, whose right? and whose wrong? I believe that ONLY Time and the affected person will/can tell effectively;- otherwise it is just merely just other people's "opinions".

c. Likewise, when you says,"George could leverage into a managed fund be doing 18%pa. after tax. Or select shares carefully and do the same."
.... but your critic can also say that you have also failed to tell him that the same possibility exists for him that he could lose all those monies in these investments too, equally speaking.

2. Secondly, I also want to say that, You are "you", not "GeorgeSA" per se, unfortunately. thus, different persons can have different outcomes despite similar/"seemingly same" situations and conditions.

3. For your kind update, please.

4. Thank you.


Cheers
and with Due Regards,

Kenneth KOH

 

[Kennethkohsg]

KOH,

I think that perhaps YOU are the one who is "emotionally involved" with this thread, or rather, are taking on George/TigerGT's case too seriously. Personally, I couldn't give a rats; I'm sitting here in fits of laughter. I just have a tendency to call "a spade a spade" at times especially when I think it serves a greater purpose than patronising posts which do nothing to contribute to one's learning (in this case, being for George/Tiger's benefit).

I appreciate the fact that you are trying to be helpful, as are many others here, but it has dragged out for so long only to go round in circles. Which clearly indicates (to me) that albeit he has benefitted from reading the opinions of others, and maybe even having gained some therapeutic benefit in bearing his soul re his misfortunate property purchase, but his indecisiveness after 12 pages and over 100 posts clearly screams, the full impact of his supposed learnt lessons have yet to be fully absorbed. I mean, after all the comments (mostly yours KOH) George/Tiger keeps coming back to the same corner.....oh but wait, NO..he has put it on the market (well he was going to do that anyway; if you read his first few of posts, his mind was made up even before the thread got to page 2) he was just using the forum as a sounding board. He has learnt NOTHING, and your lengthy empathetic posts have been in (IMO) totally in vain. And FYI, I was one of the very first posters who actually said "ultimately, it is your decision" and wished him well. That is unchanged, I respect that it is HIS decision, and I do wish him all the best, I just refuse to treat him like a child, even if his irrational thinking demonstrates that his logic is in that mindset at present.

As for what I choose to read, I'll be the judge of that, but thanks for the tip, I'll bear it in mind next time I come across a thread of this length where the last post reads identical to the first!!!

Finally, I hope you eventually figure out George/Tiger's thinking for yourself, and that if/when you do so, might be able to offer some constructive criticism, which may set him straight.

Good luck,

Jo

**************************************
Hi Jo,

1. Let us leave GeorgeSA's case aside for the time being....With due regards and I am not criticising you here... I am just simply curious to know for my own self education purposes, is it common for many young Australians to be able to make their own independant decision at the age of 26 when the likely consequences and impact is equivalent to about "A$350,000"? And How do parents actually go about teaching their children about such decision-making skills in Australia? What is your own life experience like when you were 26 then?

2. I know in Singapore and for many of my generation of young adults then, generally speaking, "A$350,000" is indeed a very big sum of monies and normally we will defer such major decision-making to our parents or proactively make our own independant decisions after much due consultation with our parents.... (Of course if you were to ask the younger generations of Singaporeans today, many of them have no qualms of making such decision by themselves at all, (without informing their parents beforehand) and perhaps even when much bigger amount of monies are involved. Some of them only get their parents involved in the decision after they have been bankrupted and looking forward to their own parents to "bail" them out, as a last resort before facing the actual consequences of being bankrupted legally speaking.)

3. I am presently thinking how to effectively teach my own children about financial literacy and how as parents we can effectively support their learning process, without having to lose too much monies ourselves for them to truly learn their lessons in real life situations. This is in addition to what Robert Kiyosaki is teaching about financial literacy for the children and the teenagers though his books and cashflow games methods.

4. I look forward to hearing and learning from you, please.

5. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[DavidMc]

KOH,

I think that perhaps YOU are the one who is "emotionally involved" with this thread, or rather, are taking on George/TigerGT's case too seriously. Personally, I couldn't give a rats; I'm sitting here in fits of laughter.

Gotta say, I'm with Kenneth on this one.

I see those triple exclamation marks!!!, CAPITALISED WORDS and comments such as the ones below quite powerful.

Quit whinging about being "embarrassed" and make up your mind
...
(knock, knock....ahh hello....)
...
if you can't address them, take up a new hobbie!!!
...
except maybe to frustrate the daylights out of me each and every time I read yet another bit of dribble
...
..oh but wait, NO..
...

Maybe it's not intented, but it certainly can appear that way to some people. In fact, I'm becoming more familar with your posting style and am thinking they are not (I'm thinking more like 'enthusiastic' - which is what makes this board great!). Please, I mean no disrespect, I enjoy your posts at lot Mono and they were especially helpful when I was looking into Frankston as an investment area.

One thing we can agree on is that this thread has gone on for a long time. I think it's time I might stop reading it. On a positive note, it does discuss something that rarely gets discussed on this board - what happens when things go a little sour. I've certainly benefited from it.

Catchya's all on another thread

 

[Kennethkohsg]

G'day Kenneth,

I believe GeorgeSA is another member altogether - the member posting here is TigerGT (aka George).


George (TigerGT),
As you can see, there is a whole raft of different ideas coming from a host of well-intentioned individuals. NONE of which are necessarily right, or necessarily wrong, but, hopefully, ONE of them will strike a chord with you.

In essence, this IS your choice. There have been a number of posts putting different ideas, scenario's, possibilities - but, in the end, it is YOUR call - based on where you are at, what you think is best, and what is the best decision you can live with. The future is close to impossible to read - things happen, making good choices into bad ones (or vice versa).

I wish you well with your choice. Keep in mind, even making NO choice is a choice in itself - maybe not the best, and maybe not the worst - but in the end, you will live with the consequences of whatever choice you make. Hopefully, the various responses here have given you some idea of "what is best for you at this time".

Good luck,

Regards,

*************************************************
Dear Les,

1. Thanks... for the correction.

2. Very well said and done. I fully agree with your post.

3. Thank you.

Cheers + Regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[Monopoly]

Gotta say, I'm with Kenneth on this one.

I see those triple exclamation marks!!!, CAPITALISED WORDS and comments such as the ones below quite powerful.



Maybe it's not intented, but it certainly can appear that way to some people. In fact, I'm becoming more familar with your posting style and am thinking they are not (I'm thinking more like 'enthusiastic' - which is what makes this board great!). Please, I mean no disrespect, I enjoy your posts at lot Mono and they were especially helpful when I was looking into Frankston as an investment area.

One thing we can agree on is that this thread has gone on for a long time. I think it's time I might stop reading it. On a positive note, it does discuss something that rarely gets discussed on this board - what happens when things go a little sour. I've certainly benefited from it.

Catchya's all on another thread

Domcc1, anyone who knows me will tell you I always give of myself 100% but sometimes, especially if the need calls for it, can be (brutually) direct, to the point of being INSULTING (sorry, I tend to use capitalisation as a means of emphasis, and as for the multiple exclamation/question marks !!!???... ummm...sticky keys no seriously, just force of habit, I will seek professional help for it, I promise)

As I said above, I mean no disrespect to George/Tiger, nor to KOH, but I think the two need to get things clear in their minds; KOH is extremely patient (a virtue I am not so blessed with, and perhaps I should take a leaf out of his book) but he is giving far too much empathy, which albeit admirable, doesn't help George's cause.

As for how I appear to others, trust me Domcc1, I stopped caring about how people perceive me when they stopped looking at who I am inside but rather focussed on what they saw on the outside, and more to the point, how much money I made.

Thank you for your post, I accept your criticism; it is a fair call, and I will try and contain my "enthusiasm" per se.

Cheers,

Jo