Who voted the QLD xxxhole? Look the last 2 weeks the news in Australia. All is caused by this xxxxhole for his personal ego --- want to be the leader of the world? Why he can not spend some time to stop the boat? It effectively bring down Malcolm Turnbull and the liberal party. He is an ixxxt.
So much for global warming
- Thread starter Propertunity
- Start date
And so the Coalition declares itself unelectable for another couple of terms. They have indeed learnt nothing from 2007.
If they had advanced a sensible alternative to the ETS they might have my sympathy. As it is they are just obviously overrun by conservative dinosaurs who stand for nothing but the past. This is nothing to do with the best policy for an ETS - it is pure sceptics vs believers in the party and these guys are just stuck on the wrong side of history.
Wedge politics has never been so easy - a small push and the party just tore itself in two - Rudd didn't even need to go near a hammer!
Now anything they say on climate change just can't be taken seriously... and the electorate know it. With John Howard it was just a strong suspicion but this confirms it beyond any doubt.
What really saddens me is that sensible carbon policy definitely won't get a look in now - the debate is completely past that.
If they had advanced a sensible alternative to the ETS they might have my sympathy. As it is they are just obviously overrun by conservative dinosaurs who stand for nothing but the past. This is nothing to do with the best policy for an ETS - it is pure sceptics vs believers in the party and these guys are just stuck on the wrong side of history.
Wedge politics has never been so easy - a small push and the party just tore itself in two - Rudd didn't even need to go near a hammer!
Now anything they say on climate change just can't be taken seriously... and the electorate know it. With John Howard it was just a strong suspicion but this confirms it beyond any doubt.
What really saddens me is that sensible carbon policy definitely won't get a look in now - the debate is completely past that.
I don't like to discuss politics or religion as it tends to get over-emotional.
However, it seems to me that Mr. Turnbull has more of an ego problem than Mr. Rudd.
Just my impression.
Cheers,
Spot on topcropper.
Once a Goldman Sachs, always a Goldman Sachs.
Goldman Sachs did so well getting their people into the key top posts in the US administration.
They may not be as successful in Australia....
Cheers,
Buggered if I know. Labor only got 10% of the vote in my electorate in the 07 election and they would get far less this next time.
But I suppose Kev will romp in again.
See ya's.
Kev will run on the ETS same as Howard ran on the GST and we'll end up with another regressive tax scheme that pushes the poorer further down the hill because, just like the GST was, the ETS will be hidden in the fine print of how tragic the Libs would be in power.
I've voted Labour all my life but this current crowd of myopic wannabes has me seriously considering the Liberals much as I hate it - and highly likely they'll end up held ransom by the political arm of the happy handclappers and regressive xenophobes. At least now they don't seem to be just sitting in a boat tillered by the dead hand of goldman sachs.
It might be me, but the pollies seem to becoming more self-centred, and owned by interest groups - which I could forgive if they only brought in an occasional good forward thinking and well considered policy.
To paraphrase Robert Bolt; when politicians vote by the party rather than by their own consciences they lead their society by a short route to inequality.
This ETS bill would never pass a conscience vote.
I've voted Labour all my life but this current crowd of myopic wannabes has me seriously considering the Liberals much as I hate it - and highly likely they'll end up held ransom by the political arm of the happy handclappers and regressive xenophobes. At least now they don't seem to be just sitting in a boat tillered by the dead hand of goldman sachs.
It might be me, but the pollies seem to becoming more self-centred, and owned by interest groups - which I could forgive if they only brought in an occasional good forward thinking and well considered policy.
To paraphrase Robert Bolt; when politicians vote by the party rather than by their own consciences they lead their society by a short route to inequality.
This ETS bill would never pass a conscience vote.
Here is a good article on how the ETS is meant to be working & how the political games have changed it:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/rudds-scheme-unfair-but-effective-20091127-jwu9.html
Cheers,
http://www.smh.com.au/business/rudds-scheme-unfair-but-effective-20091127-jwu9.html
Cheers,
HiE:
Well said HiE, the last few days have me shaking my head, it's been like watching a (delberate), slow train derailment.
Malcom has gone up (in my estimations) a billion percent. Has become the sacrificial lamb for the dinosaur-line-of-thinking. The guy has guts. The strange thing is (or not) Joe Hockey had backed the ETS and Malcom.
Et tu Brutus.
The Liberals remind me, (at the moment), of that old disco song: "Right back where we started from"
I keep waiting for John Howard to zip onto the Parliamentary dance floor in skin tight pants, Travolta-esque style, gyrationg and bumping....
Well said HiE, the last few days have me shaking my head, it's been like watching a (delberate), slow train derailment.
Malcom has gone up (in my estimations) a billion percent. Has become the sacrificial lamb for the dinosaur-line-of-thinking. The guy has guts. The strange thing is (or not) Joe Hockey had backed the ETS and Malcom.
Et tu Brutus.
The Liberals remind me, (at the moment), of that old disco song: "Right back where we started from"
I keep waiting for John Howard to zip onto the Parliamentary dance floor in skin tight pants, Travolta-esque style, gyrationg and bumping....
I think it has been stunningly refreshing to see some politicians act in the interests of their constituents, and not toe the party line.
If nothing else, I just hope the indecent haste of Rudd to have this legislation passed before Copenhagen is stopped. Then let's have a sensible debate about things in the context of what the rest of the world is doing.
The self indulgence of Kevin, thinking he is important on the world stage, and that a leadership stance from him is noteworthy, is truly laughable.
If nothing else, I just hope the indecent haste of Rudd to have this legislation passed before Copenhagen is stopped. Then let's have a sensible debate about things in the context of what the rest of the world is doing.
The self indulgence of Kevin, thinking he is important on the world stage, and that a leadership stance from him is noteworthy, is truly laughable.
Why is Australia going to be stuck with paying such a high price when the rest of the world can continue to pollute and not pay in any way? eg China and the US. I bet Obama will not bring in any TAX that would affect his countries economy like this one will affect ours!
And will a carbon tax really Help stop any polluters?
I think not!
And will a carbon tax really Help stop any polluters?
I think not!
1. I watched yesterday night's interview. Turnbull was so poor and did not answer any questions during the interview by repeating the "future and our children etc". In contrast, Senator Minch has put forward a very hearted case to him.
2. Turnbull has no leadership. He is not like a leader in opposition but in the same bed with Rudd almost everything since elected (not the boat people).
3. We heard on the news almost every 2-3 days a boat arrive but coalition could not take advantage of that. The coalition is embarrassed by themselves everyday. Compared to Rudd in playing politics, Liberals are primary students while the labours are high schools.
5. If the ETS is passed, Rudd will take the credit for this personal ego in the Copenhagen. The Australian people will suffer for this senseless tax and the Liberal will get the blame -- because it was put forward by the Turnbull. Why those liberals can not see this game how it was played in Rudd's hand.
6. As shown in ABC TV, how polluted China is. Ask yourselves, why they can not commit cutting the Co2? It is a just stupid thinking the worst country does not commit themselves but the so-called "developed" Australia want to. If Australia cut all Co2, China and India will make it up in a week or less.
7. If the Climate conference in Copenhagen is so important, why the biggest polluter - Chinese president will not go. To him, he has much more important thing to do than the world leader party. Obama is running out of his wisdom and charm: got a Noble Price without doing anything, he lost mind on Afhan, Iran, North Korea and huge un-employment. He is surviving on printing money and borrowing. He is effectively a no-do person. It is a shame America has elected such a person who will lead them to a self-destruction. We will not see a strong America any more. Just to see how he was treated in China during his recent visit -- he was treated as second class president and a house owner to see his banker. That is how he should be treated. Unlike Bush, Clinton, they all got high respect and reception. Obama is like Rudd, a show-leader but no-doer.
8. Why we are self-punished by this senseless tax? Of course, we like green planet. What is the real cost to their life? Why other people do not like a green planet?
9. Turnbull is a shame. I just could not work out why he is destroying such a great party. Like John Howard, he would be a great legend if he retired before 2007. However, because of this personal ego, he effectively destroyed the chance of winning and humiliated by losing his own seat.
2. Turnbull has no leadership. He is not like a leader in opposition but in the same bed with Rudd almost everything since elected (not the boat people).
3. We heard on the news almost every 2-3 days a boat arrive but coalition could not take advantage of that. The coalition is embarrassed by themselves everyday. Compared to Rudd in playing politics, Liberals are primary students while the labours are high schools.
5. If the ETS is passed, Rudd will take the credit for this personal ego in the Copenhagen. The Australian people will suffer for this senseless tax and the Liberal will get the blame -- because it was put forward by the Turnbull. Why those liberals can not see this game how it was played in Rudd's hand.
6. As shown in ABC TV, how polluted China is. Ask yourselves, why they can not commit cutting the Co2? It is a just stupid thinking the worst country does not commit themselves but the so-called "developed" Australia want to. If Australia cut all Co2, China and India will make it up in a week or less.
7. If the Climate conference in Copenhagen is so important, why the biggest polluter - Chinese president will not go. To him, he has much more important thing to do than the world leader party. Obama is running out of his wisdom and charm: got a Noble Price without doing anything, he lost mind on Afhan, Iran, North Korea and huge un-employment. He is surviving on printing money and borrowing. He is effectively a no-do person. It is a shame America has elected such a person who will lead them to a self-destruction. We will not see a strong America any more. Just to see how he was treated in China during his recent visit -- he was treated as second class president and a house owner to see his banker. That is how he should be treated. Unlike Bush, Clinton, they all got high respect and reception. Obama is like Rudd, a show-leader but no-doer.
8. Why we are self-punished by this senseless tax? Of course, we like green planet. What is the real cost to their life? Why other people do not like a green planet?
9. Turnbull is a shame. I just could not work out why he is destroying such a great party. Like John Howard, he would be a great legend if he retired before 2007. However, because of this personal ego, he effectively destroyed the chance of winning and humiliated by losing his own seat.
Yeah, too right it is.
The national polies who have rejected this crazy scheme would have got rotten eggs thrown at them in their rural electorates if they had of gone with the ETS. It's fairly easy to work out that rural areas will be far more effected than the city. And good on the city based liberals who can see what a fraud it is.
We all know about Turnbulls history with Goldman sachs. His constituents in Wentworth won't be effected much. The main industries in Wentworth are Finance, property, services, wholesale and retail trade, and tourism. Not much CO2 in that lot. Obviously the finance sector would have been a big winner from an ETS.
See ya's.
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Beer drinkers REPENT!
It has just crossed my mind that, as Al Gore has downgraded his estimation of the effects of CO2 by 40% (or was that TO 40%?) methane is about to become public enemy No 1.
Pity the cows. We have used and abused them for centuries but we now say that they are trying to kill us. And I thought Cows With Guns
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/cowswithguns
was fiction.
Back to beer. Cows belch methane because the bacteria in their rumen releases it in the process of converting the VERY low grade diet of the cow to life sustaining nutrient. It's called "fermentation". Isn't that what they do for beer? Convert low grade starch into life sustaining elixir?
Beer drinkers say NO! to ETS!
It has just crossed my mind that, as Al Gore has downgraded his estimation of the effects of CO2 by 40% (or was that TO 40%?) methane is about to become public enemy No 1.
Pity the cows. We have used and abused them for centuries but we now say that they are trying to kill us. And I thought Cows With Guns
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/cowswithguns
was fiction.
Back to beer. Cows belch methane because the bacteria in their rumen releases it in the process of converting the VERY low grade diet of the cow to life sustaining nutrient. It's called "fermentation". Isn't that what they do for beer? Convert low grade starch into life sustaining elixir?
Beer drinkers say NO! to ETS!
Cows can convert the lowest quality feed into beef. Dry rank old grass, growing on poor unarable land that couldn't produce food otherwise. Put a mob of kangaroos or almost any other non-ruminant animal on the same feed and they would soon starve.
I'd have thought the carbon/methan cycle in agriculture was a closed system. The plants taking in carbon, the animals eating the plants and emitting CO2 and methan into the atmosphere and the cycle repeating. No extra carbon is being added like with fossil fuels put under the ground 250 million years ago.
The ETS is supposed to make us all switch to lower emitting activities.
An aluminium smelter would have 70 to 80% of it's costs as electricity. It's ludicrous to think that this aluminium smelter wouldn't already be using the most efficient methods and the lowest amount of electricity as possible. Of course it is already, otherwise it wouldn't still be in business. There are no savings to be made, other than moving the production to China. And in the carbon emissions produced in this aluminium smelter, do the calculations take into account the savings in emissions from all the uses of aluminium to reduce weight? Are the total emissions worked out after the weight savings in cars are included, or is it a simplistic measure?
Agriculture is going to be left off Australia's ETS. But Aussie farmers are not off scott free. Farmers will still be up for higher fertilizer and diesel prices. In the emissions that come from fertilizer, do the calculations take into account the extra carbon that the more fertile soil will sequestor into the plants? Do the diesel emissions take into account the emissions that would be produced by oxen or draught horses if we didn't use diesel powered machinery?
See ya's.
Did I hear right, when I heard recently that 7 billion a year would flow directly out of Australian taxes into the UN coffers as a result of the ETS?
I think it is to "Pay" the third world countries for us being the "Polluters" all these years!
So basically, the first world will pay the third world and in the end the roles will be reversed!
We will end up being a poor country and they will end up with all of our money because of this "Global warming".... Yeh Right! Sounds Fair to me! NOT
Did I hear right, when I heard recently that 7 billion a year would flow directly out of Australian taxes into the UN coffers as a result of the ETS?
As I heard it, that's just the first year. Each year thereafter the UN will tell us what we owe. Of course, being such responsible world citizens they will reduce it, Wont they?
Don't you love the world we live in? Whats 7 Billion, heck whats 60 Billion. Its for a good cause.
The economist has a reasonably balanced article on this debate.
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?story_id=14966227&source=hptextfeature
Cheers,
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?story_id=14966227&source=hptextfeature
Cheers,
Thanks House Keeper, for linking in a well written, (and expressed), article piece. Comments section was also a little interesting, enjoyed generated 1911269's contribution.
Always refreshing to read thoughts and opinions expressed at a considered and balanced level. Understandably it can be an emotive topic, I guess along the lines of many topics. But enjoyed reading that one. AND there was no name calling. How about that.
Always refreshing to read thoughts and opinions expressed at a considered and balanced level. Understandably it can be an emotive topic, I guess along the lines of many topics. But enjoyed reading that one. AND there was no name calling. How about that.
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