Stacking up numbers with cash flow positive properties

Would be scarce in Perth?

That's what I was thinking.

Given the equity I have, perhaps it is best to look outside of Perth - would be a waste to put all my equity in Perth simply because that is easiest, if there are far better options elsewhere in Australia with similar levels of risk..
 
That's what I was thinking.

Given the equity I have, perhaps it is best to look outside of Perth - would be a waste to put all my equity in Perth simply because that is easiest, if there are far better options elsewhere in Australia with similar levels of risk..

I would be looking at West Syd, I know some are achieving 8% or close buying units sub $200,000. Alternatively, QLD, SE region.
 
A late post. Probably irrelevant.

5 properties bringing in $20,000 net per year will get $100,000 per year. The issue here is how to get such 5 properties. Say paying off all of them, but how?
1. We can buy say 10 such properties, pay interest only, wait for them to double in value and sell 5 and pay off debt.
2. Buy, say 8, and pay off some capital too by saving OR adding granny flat, sub divide etc and finally keep 5.
Again another issue: how to buy 8-10 properties, raise the deposits needed?
If one have strong salaries, may be possible to save. But manufacturing equity is better, say by renovation.

OK, in real life so far, what we learnt is - reading books and magazines will give you ideas. But you better start doing things to find out what works for you. In real life, things are different to what is on paper.

100,000 today and 100,000 in 2023 are not the same. What we think is to pay off just 3 properties, live in one and rent out 2. That should bring enough income to live. By involving 2 persons, tax can be minimised as well. We are thinking of ways to buy and then pay off 3 properties. Hopefully will find some way !!

Singo
 
Developing is another way to create income stream.
Find suitable land where you can perhaps build 3 units, sell off 2 and end up owning one, from my figures with my latest project I will generate around $20,000 gross income.
Repeat, and access equity.

Of course you don't have to sell any if the rents cover holding costs, but if its about cash flow now then I would sell 2.

Buying and holding is fine if you jump into a rising market and in a position to buy 3-4 properties, sell 2, keep 2 and reduce debt, increase cash flow. I think if you go down this road you need to know what the markets are doing in Australia to improve your chances of greater success, and ready to pull the trigger.
 
Entering the discussion a bit late.

And also not promoting USA property as I think it is to late.

But we have 11 properties in the US (Atlanta)

Bought from 2011 to 2012 total investment $800k gross return $158k based on full occupancy (tends not to happen).

Still need to work out the current financial years figures (friggin paperwork) but think the net return will be about $80-90k.

Was looking to expand the US portfolio to 20 odd properties and this would have pushed my gross income to the $1mil mark.

I started with a PPOR and just kept adding property when I could. Ran a business along the way and kept buying property.

So it is possible to start with nothing (as attested to by many posters) and build up a substantial property portfolio.

Just remember that you start small and you really don't need to take in the whole picture. It will come into focus as time goes on.

You will also need to practice and refine your processes for managing a property and later many properties. If you don't manage to get on to of one or two properties then, really, it will be a nightmare if you continued accumulating them.

Cheers

Yes, I agree with you too late to be buying in USA now, just looking at your figures, your properties were over 20% gross and you will end up with perhaps around 10% net just shows how much slippage there is with these US properties.

I now see US properties selling with 12-15% gross return, with the Aussie $ falling there is no point, you may end up with 6-8% net, too risky, if you look hard enough you can get these returns in Australia.
 
Developing is another way to create income stream.
Find suitable land where you can perhaps build 3 units, sell off 2 and end up owning one, from my figures with my latest project I will generate around $20,000 gross income.
Repeat, and access equity.

Probably a silly question. $20,000 or $200,000? Or $20,000 and a unit? Or $20,000 rental income?

Yep, developing is a great strategy. But another level isn't it? As newbies, we are comfortable with cosmetic renos. Once the equity gets stronger, may consider.

Thanks
 
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Probably a silly question. $20,000 or $200,000? Or $20,000 and a unit? Or $20,000 rental income?

Yep, developing is a great strategy. But another level isn't it? As newbies, we are comfortable with cosmetic renos. Once the equity gets stronger, may consider.

Thanks

$20,000 gross income, sell 2 units, hold 1.:)
 
It takes time :)

There are ways to add to the yield of a property but it's generally a combination of items. You can improve yield by capital growth, reducing buy costs (i.e. your own developments, buying and reno), NRAS, granny flats etc etc

No one I have ever met has instantly created 100k rental income. It takes time generally. The only exception might be something like NRAS which if done well could generate quite a bit of additional income.


This is correct. It could be particularly effective if you were to purchase less expensive NRAS properties and used fix rates around the low 5% range.

To explain...

You should first understand that it is completely reasonable to expect that an NRAS property under 350K (and certainly under 300k) should generate a minimum 6-8K Cash Flow Positive. In some cases it can be 9 or 10K CF+, but lets work with 6-8K. That figure should increase incrementally over the 10 years of the NRAS, as the annual incentive is indexed upwards with rental CPI. If you have used a 3-5 year fix rate, your debt wont be increasing during that period, but your rent and your after tax cash flow will, so the numbers can be even stronger.

Then there are the tax benefits on the other side. Of themselves, tax benefits aren't a reason to invest, but it's important to understand them, nevertheless. Working with very general numbers for the purpose of the exercise, an NRAS property should generally produce approximately 20K of deductions (sometimes it can be 22 or 23K, sometimes 18 or 19K. But let's say 10-12K for Cash flow loss and 8-10K for depreciation, so 20K) Of course this will vary from dwelling to dwelling and will depend on your Marginal Tax Rate and a few other variable, but generally speaking it's about right.


So - 20K deductible loss produced by each NRAS property, and 6-8K CF+ also produced by each NRAS property. Pretty simple stuff so far. How does it impact on real people though?

For a person earning 100K per annum, the purchase of 4 NRAS properties should produce around 80K of deductions ( 4 x 20K) meaning their assessable taxable income would reduce to 20K ( 100K - 80K) getting them to an almost tax free income. (the first $18,600 you earn is tax free) But they would also receive around 25K CF+. ( 4 x 6-8K)

So you'd only be paying tax on $1400 ($20K minus $18,600 tax free threshold) , and at 19% Marginal tax rate, so on a 100K salary you'd effectively be paying $266 in tax plus your medicare levy.

The net result would be this . You 'd have your 100K salary - paying less than $300 tax plus medicare levy PLUS you'd be receiving 4 x 6-8K tax free from NRAS ( lets call it 25K in total) which equates to 125K income, with a tax bill of less than $300 plus medicare levy.

So in broad terms, 125K tax free, give or take a few hundred bucks


For someone earning 200K, if they had the capacity to purchase 6 NRAS properties for example, they could reasonably expect to reduce their assessable income by 120K ( 6 x 20K) PLUS generate 6 x 6-8K from NRAS ( say 40K on average) So they'd have total income of 240K and be paying tax on 80K of that income


For someone earning 60K who can buy just one NRAS property, they'd see their assessable taxable income reduced to 40K, but would effectively be earning 66-68K

And so it goes.... pretty powerful stuff. And all of those figures make no mention of capital growth, deliberately. Because the investment doesn't require luck, good fortune or speculation. NRAS is very simple - you save tax and make extra money tax free, with or without capital growth. So if the markets change, if the economy changes - you still make money , full stop.

Looked at from a different perspective, if you were to utilise 95% lending, whereby you contributed 8% deposit ( the bank covers the other 92% plus capitalises the LMI) and stamp duty, plus a 10K cash flow buffer to cover the majority or all of the 1st years holding costs, the returns can be viewed a little diffrerently.

Using a 300K property as an example, and assuming a 6-8K CF+ outcome ( which is more than reasonable) your contribution would be 24K (8% of 300K) plus 12K ( stamp duty - could be far less if you bought house and land and only had to pay stamps on the land) plus 10K ( cash flow buffer) That is a total contribution of 46K. If that 46K generates a 6 -8K tax free return using NRAS, a 6K return equates to a 13.04% tax free return on your money, and an 8K return equates to a 17.39% tax free return on your money.

If a bank offered you a 13.04% tax free account or 17.39% tax free account tomorrow, would you invest money in it????? If so, why not NRAS then?

So yes, employed correctly, NRAS can assist in transforming your cash flow position better than just about any other form of investment. Problem is, most people cant see the forest for the trees; the property spruikers see it ONLY as a property play, and criticise it for location and the lack of potential growth- especially when the commissions they get are from non NRAS developers :) But they're having themselves on, and they're having you on, if they believe they can create wealth for you with the kind of 1990's growth they promise you, in the post GFC environment. The fear mongers criticise it as social housing and a tax scheme, where it clearly is not. The naysayers dont appear to be able to operate basic functionality on a calculator, and say they don't see the cash flow benefits, when anyone who can add 2+2 understands the maths are a no brainer. But most importantly , people just dont seem to see that NRAS isn't "just" a property investment. Nor is it "just" a tax scheme. nor is it "just" a cash flow generator. It is all three, working at once, simultaneously - and needs to be viewed as such in order to understand why it is such a powerful investment.
 
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