Tenant Causes Damage to Unit Downstairs

[smallbuyer]

Hello,

Just curious if anyone has any input about who is liable in this situation.

Tenants decided to do some unauthorized plumbing in the bathroom (so they could attach a washing machine which they arent allowed to have) which caused a nasty leak causing damage in the unit their in but also lots of damage downstairs.
Obviously they are liable for this and for the damage in my unit i have to pursue them for but what about the damage downstairs? Would i have to pay this and try and get the money off them or are they liable to pay the owner downstairs directly?

Also peoples input on how much the damages due by the tenant actually are would be appreciated eg a vanity that was only in average condition. Costs say $600 to replace but how much is the tenant liable for an the condition was not perfect?

In WA in a block of Strata titled units.

Thx for any input

SB

 

[Perp]

This has the potential to be really ugly. :/

Have you or your PM been conducting regular inspections, and if so, have you ever seen the washing machine before?

 

[smallbuyer]

Was in their 6 weeks ago, no washing machine then so definitely something new. I figure no implied consent defense from tenant because i saw it and looked the other way would stack up as i never saw it.

 

[Lil Skater]

Some tenants never cease to amaze me!

I'd say tenants are fully liable for damage, if they wished to have plumbing done they should've approached you/PM and gotten a professional in.

Do you have insurance? Does the insurance cover damage to the downstairs unit due to the tenants unauthorised works? What about the strata insurance?

At the very least the tenant should be liable for any/all excess on the insurance.

If you don't have insurance, it's probably a good time to look into it.

Normally replacement of fixtures at the property (like the vanity) would need to be depreciated (this is talking from VCAT perspective - so not WA). Ie. New vanity $600, the current one was 10yo and depreciate from there and the tenant is liable for the remaining amount after depreciation. Doing it this way may see the tenants pay nothing for the vanity though.

 

[thatbum]

How much damage was caused to the downstairs? I'd be more worried about that.

Any word from that lot owner or the strata company?

 

[smallbuyer]

Yeah downstairs is a fair bit more maybe a few thousand. That is my primary concern as obviously damage to my unit i have to chase the tenant to repair but can the owner of downstairs chase me for damage caused by the tenant of my unit. It wasn't a busted pipe or faulty worn out fitting the tenant deliberately changed the plumbing which caused a leak which i would think makes them solely liable for any damage.

 

[Spades]

Yes,you will be liable for the owners damage downstairs.

Good luck with it all,sounds an expensive situ.

 

[smallbuyer]

Thanks for your input.
Seems strange the owner would be liable in this situation?
I didn't know when you rented a property you took responsibility for tenants causing damage to others property?
What happens if the tenants decide they don't like the neighbor and chuck a Molotov cocktail over the fence?
What happens if you lend someone your car and they crash it into a Ferrari?
All these seem fairly similar to me, some 3rd party doing something wrong for which they are punished.

 

[Spades]

Let me rephrase that,you will be liable if the tenant doesn't pay the costs.

Expensive costs involved chasing the tenant.

From thatbum-Any word from that lot owner or the strata company?

Again,any word?

Bare in mind i'm no legal eagle,i'm sure someone else will be along with more input.

 

[lizzie]

I would be surprised if the strata insurance paid. I had an issue not long ago when the balcony flooded due to insufficient draining during a massive downpour.

Flooded under the sliding door into the unit and soaked the carpets.

Ruling - not covered by strata as they only maintain what is currently in place, so insufficient drainage is not their responsibility.

 

[smallbuyer]

Have been in touch with downstairs owner, in damage assessment mode.

Why would the owner be liable if the tenant doesn't pay if the tenant did something they where not allowed to do which caused damage to a 3rd parties property? I would think between the party who caused the damage (tenant) and damaged party (downstairs owner) with no involvement from a 3rd party.

Lizzie strata's can be nasty, my friend had one recently where strata pipe in wall burst damaging carpet and they refused to pay anything until they where seriously threatened (legally of course). Some strata's have the default position of deny all.
I don't think this is a strata issue though as not their pipe and not damage to their property.

 

[Perp]

Well, let's start with this: did your bathroom have a floor drain? Should it have had one?

Or was the leak down through the wall? If so, how? Were there laundry taps on the wall?

How exactly was it rigged up?

 

[Paul@PFI]

Accidental damage on policy ? - YOUR contents / LL policy or Strata ?? Start with the insurer. They have defined rules about who covers what. Unless you took accidential damage option it may not be covered. I have the accidental damage option as it covers smashed basins, windows, floor tiles, sliding door etc. If they drive their car into the house its covered rather than me assume they have car insurance. If they don't the insurer may well seek to recover and I don't have to worry about that debt. It removes the issue of "who did it"..All things can be broken and can be expensive.

If its insured the tenant may just be liable for excess. That's your limit of the loss.

 

[smallbuyer]

They disconnected the plumbing pipes that run inside the vanity up to the basin taps so from what i can tell the water leaked through or next to the vanity somehow not like the drain didn't do its job or something like that.

Unfortunately i don't think insurance will be coming to the party.

 

[Perp]

They disconnected the plumbing pipes that run inside the vanity up to the basin taps so from what i can tell the water leaked through or next to the vanity somehow not like the drain didn't do its job or something like that.

Unfortunately i don't think insurance will be coming to the party.

Wow, what a nightmare!

I am not a lawyer. My commonsense tells me that the fact that they've deliberately interfered with the plumbing, without your knowledge, can only help your position, but the law's not always commonsense. :/ thatbum may have something to offer. I hope something that puts your mind at ease!

What are the tenants saying? Are they still around? Are they likely to have a few thousand to cover the repairs?

 

[smallbuyer]

Tenants are still around and most likely they will cover it so im not overly worried its just more a hypothetical if they decide to bail who is liable as its an unusual situation.

 

[Paul@PFI]

Tenants are still around and most likely they will cover it so im not overly worried its just more a hypothetical if they decide to bail who is liable as its an unusual situation.

Time for the Outlaw Motorcycle repair squad to make a house call

 

[Terry_w]

Tenants usually don't have much money. This could leave the owner of the property in the firing line. Yes the owner could be sued

 

[DaveM]

Have you considered faucet protection?

 

[sydprop]

Tenants are still around and most likely they will cover it so im not overly worried its just more a hypothetical if they decide to bail who is liable as its an unusual situation.

I have had a similar situation - somewhat drunk tenant's guest fell asleep in shower blocking the drain. Bathmat over the other floor waste.

Flooded my unit, out the front door and into the ceiling of the unit below.

As a renter I've always had contents insurance for the third party liability cover in exactly these situations (well, not exactly!). My tenants were insured - though they did pay for the damage from memory.

I wasn't involved - and actively stayed out of it - I'm sure if they didn't get anywhere with the tenants, the strata/other owners would have had a crack at me and that's the main reason why I have landlords insurance for liability. (hope it actually covers me - not tested).