Thinking of dealing with the devil...

Namely, my sister. :D
She has asked if (when our current tenants lease expires) we would rent our IP to her. We are seriously considering it. I don't know if I am crazy or what.

She is a young single mum. I know she would be a reasonable tenant (at least she has been for every other landlord). She has a fair bit of trouble finding rentals in Canberra due to the fact she is young, single and has a child - and lets face it LL's here can generally afford to be choosey.

We would be renting the property to her at less then it's current rate, however our money in hand would be the same as we would self manage - and the reduction would be in line with what the PM is paid. The rent itself would still be within market prices, just middle, rather then right at the top like it is now ;) . We do not believe that there will be much room for any increases at it's current rent at the end of this tenancy (in fact some rents in the area seem to have dropped).

We would use a standard lease, and bond, etc.

Our primary concerns:
*rental payment on time. This is our biggest concern. This has never been a problem with her for past rentals, but there is a possibility that she may think she should be entitled to special concessions if things are tight, because we are family. We would look at having the rental payment direct debited the day after her payday on a fortnightly basis. (We also know mum and dad would bail her out financially if she got herself in trouble, and I have no problem being hardarse with her, and going throught the normal eviction proceedings etc - but it wouldn't make for very harmonious family relationships).

*pets. She currently has a couple of cats, some fish and some lizzards - not a problem. I do think that she will want to get a dog though (I know my sister and it would be kept outside, but this is certainly something I would need to talk to her about).

*future flatmates / boyfriends moving in. At some point it is very likely that she will want her boyfriend or some other faltmate to move in. Again this is a risk that would exist with any single tenant. We would want to check them out, and at this point I am not sure whether we would be better to have them put on the lease as well, or not. If she weren't my sister I would be insisting on it definitely - which makes me think that it is something I should still insist on. Also if a flatmate were to move in to help her with costs - I would want the rent to increase so that we weren't giving her a discount.

*rental increases - how will she react when her big mean sister decides that it is time for a rental increase. I cann't see it happening too soon, but it will certainly at somepoint.

Is there anything else which could potientally be a problem created by our relationship?

I am just trying to go through all the possible problems etc. Once I have thought about it properly I intend on talking to her in depth about these potiental issues and see if we can come up with some groundrules before we decided whether we wish to go down this path.


The Pro's -
*we have potientially a good long-term tenant - I beleive she will stay on as long as she can afford the rent / or until she wises up and decides that she should save a deposit for her own place (not likely anytime soon).
*We will have oppertunities to keep an eye on and maintain the property. Getting access will not be a problem for maintaince or inspections.
*Rent will still be within market range (albeit lower then current price),
*we will not have to deal with or through a PM (although, ours still provides individual one off services - like property inspections - if we wished to engage these services).


****If it weren't for the fact that she was my sister, I would certainly think she was a decent applicant.
 
might be opening a can of worms there, but as long as you make it clear you are not a charity you might be okay.

you did forget one negative though...

- maintenance requests will go through the roof!

I know this first hand. For 7 years as a tenant I was a landlords wet dream, never complained about anything even thought the wife would constantly nag me to get the landlords to fix things. I never complained, paid the rent on time and that was it.

But now we've moved into her grandparents house (as they have gone to the old folks home) and instead of nagging me she goes right to her dad and her aunty with a long list of things she wants done. I'm not the middle man anymore and her maintenance requests are very frequent!
 
might be opening a can of worms there, but as long as you make it clear you are not a charity you might be okay.

you did forget one negative though...

- maintenance requests will go through the roof!

I know this first hand. For 7 years as a tenant I was a landlords wet dream, never complained about anything even thought the wife would constantly nag me to get the landlords to fix things. I never complained, paid the rent on time and that was it.

But now we've moved into her grandparents house (as they have gone to the old folks home) and instead of nagging me she goes right to her dad and her aunty with a long list of things she wants done. I'm not the middle man anymore and her maintenance requests are very frequent!

:)
Our IP is a brand new property, so maintainence isn't a huge issue - plus I personally rather a tenant who requests everything as soon as it becomes an issue - doesn't mean I have to fix it straight away, but it does mean I am aware of it. :)
 
I have seen a lot of this, usually when I see it it is because someone is begging me to manage their property as they rented to friends or family and things turned bad.
If you are going to rent to family then do it through an agent. It means there is a middle man, someone else is the bad guy and when she comes to you, you can stay guilt free "have a chat to the agent sis, want to keep it all above board". or the always good fall back "I would mange it myself because I know you are the perfect tenant but it is better for my tax purposes if I have an agent". By having a middle man you avoid huge family disputes (because everyone ALWAYS takes a side) and despite you saying you are happy to go through with the eviction process if need be it will be a ripple effect throughout the entire family. Ask your PM for a discounted management fee as you are finding the tenant and will be able to deal with a lot of things yourself, you should be able to get it (if not from your current PM then from another agency). Its a few dollars yes but it's not much for a safety net and peace of mind.
 
I have no problem being hardarse with her, and going throught the normal eviction proceedings etc - but it wouldn't make for very harmonious family relationships


Get rid of all of the BUTs....and you'll have no problems. The more BUTs you allow, the more you'll water it down from hardarse to soft touch.


Personally, I've never actually witnessed two sisters be hardarsed / hard nosed with each other. At some point, at least one of the two sisters starts leaning on that emotional lever and before you know it, it's one big hissy fit cryfest.


You're a lawyer rugrat, so naturally being devoid of all compassion and sense, I think you'll be fine.


P.S. Other than you two, are there any other siblings to 'take sides'...
 
Avoid one problem by insisting on a percentage rent rise each year, every year. Have this clearly understood from the start, and included in documentation. You can always forego a rent rise if the situation warrants it (but never two years in a row), but having it clearly set out at the beginning may avoid future issues.
Marg
 
i absolutely 100% agree with sez. go through an agent. i have seen this a number of times in the past few years and it has worked very well a few times and VERY badly. the main issue is that the tenants we have had with their siblings or parents as landlords don't care about getting the rent in on time because they know either 'parents' or the landlord will bail them out, pay it for them, or just let them off the hook.
the strongest piece of advice is if you go through an agent, let them deal with it just like any other property. send terminations, and let the agent go through with tribunal if they need to. if you dont let the agent do their job properly, and like normal then its possible your sister will relax on the rent.

I really do think though it comes down to your comment, if she wasn't your sister you would look at her and think she is a good tenant. thats very important, and good luck!
 
Get rid of all of the BUTs....and you'll have no problems. The more BUTs you allow, the more you'll water it down from hardarse to soft touch.


Personally, I've never actually witnessed two sisters be hardarsed / hard nosed with each other. At some point, at least one of the two sisters starts leaning on that emotional lever and before you know it, it's one big hissy fit cryfest.


You're a lawyer rugrat, so naturally being devoid of all compassion and sense, I think you'll be fine.


P.S. Other than you two, are there any other siblings to 'take sides'...

I have five siblings in total. I am the second eldest and used to being the boss (and the younger ones - this sister included - are very much used to me being bossy and being blunt and honest with them :D ). I am not worried about damaging mine and my sisters relationship, she will either get over something like that or not - it doesn't really phase me. I do know that if something does go wrong, she knows she won't slip it by me, and may very well try to 'sway' mum with her tears; which may make for uncomfortable sunday night dinners (although mum certainly knows me well enough to not actually get involved). It wouldn't change my position on things (I am very stubborn) but it might mean that I would avoid doing family things while she was present for a while, to avoid any drama.

As for the other siblings, I can very safely say that no-one would be side taking and they would all very much make a very big effort to steer clear of the conflict as much as possible - we don't tend to get involved in each others drama, particularly if they involve another sibling.

But I definitely see your point. :)


Marge - that is a good idea about the rent rises. I will think on that, I think it is a good idea that she at least 'expects' a rent raise, even if it doesn't eventuate.
 
i absolutely 100% agree with sez. go through an agent. i have seen this a number of times in the past few years and it has worked very well a few times and VERY badly. the main issue is that the tenants we have had with their siblings or parents as landlords don't care about getting the rent in on time because they know either 'parents' or the landlord will bail them out, pay it for them, or just let them off the hook.
the strongest piece of advice is if you go through an agent, let them deal with it just like any other property. send terminations, and let the agent go through with tribunal if they need to. if you dont let the agent do their job properly, and like normal then its possible your sister will relax on the rent.

I really do think though it comes down to your comment, if she wasn't your sister you would look at her and think she is a good tenant. thats very important, and good luck!

This really is our number one concern with this situation. Ensuring she knows that there will be no special treatment, and that rent is expected on time, everytime, regardless of anything else. We would be wanting to put some strategies in place to try and ensure that we can mitigate this risk - direct debit on paydays (any other suggestions welcome).

In regards to the property management. We have been tossing up with the idea of self managing anyway. The PM we currently use does provide services for set fees (inspections, tribunnal attendance, etc) that we can employ if needed, even if she is not actually 'managing the property. We are thinking that if we just use the PM for these specific things, we can maintain the 'appearance' of indifference and routine in these areas. As for maintainence, it is easier to talk directly to the tenant then using a middleman anyway.

Either way, still haven't decided one way or another yet...
 
I have five siblings in total. I am the second eldest and used to being the boss (and the younger ones - this sister included - are very much used to me being bossy and being blunt and honest with them :D ).

Indeed !!

I find this totem pole situation exists with all family structures - fascinating subject. It usually takes decades to establish, but once established, is very hard to shift / alter.....and it all comes to a head when the parents finally depart and the will is read. To see the machinations of what the will says vs what the totem pole has established already is amazing to see.

My personal observations have been, that the people up the top of the family totem pole usually get there by being stubborn, hardnosed and usually 'right' when it comes to financial matters. The people down the bottom of the totem pole are the 'nice', 'emotional', 'flexible' siblings who are not so good with finance matters.....but more importantly don't want to ruffle feathers.

Personally, I find that subject massively more interesting than some ratty little house for rent.
 
Indeed !!

I find this totem pole situation exists with all family structures - fascinating subject. It usually takes decades to establish, but once established, is very hard to shift / alter.....and it all comes to a head when the parents finally depart and the will is read. To see the machinations of what the will says vs what the totem pole has established already is amazing to see.

Personally, I find that subject massively more interesting than some ratty little house for rent.

I also come from a large family, with 5 siblings... all boys apart from me (and I'm the hard-nosed, stubborn one!).
I guess we still have a bit of time, but I found it somewhat disappointing that we havent had a fight yet over my parents estate. Usually there is something (often trivial) that causes fights. I know a family who fought for a couple of years over their mum's porcelein doll collection. When we were younger, we said that we would stand at the top of the hill close to mum's and race down the hill to "claim" the items we wanted the most. But in the end, we were very orderly and "dished" things out in a very calm manner........ way too boring! But we did keep the spouses away during the "dish out". I think that helped.

Anyway, back to the OP...... if it were me, I would also work through a PM. particularly if you have any concerns about rent being paid on time. To me, its clearer and keeps it all at arms length, and I have seen first hand the emotional damage that can occur when you rent property to family.
 
I always wonder how people who are doing it tough (like me) think that ADDING a pet will help. Pets are costly, so whats more important a roof over your head or a dog?

Personally i woud advise against it, as you will be taken for a ride one way or another, and do you really want to potentially strain the family relationship?
 
Wouldn't do it myself again.
Learnt the lesson not to rent to family or friends.

I find the family and friend mindset changes once they are in renting from you.
They seem to think if they are going to have financial difficulties a long the way
they can rely on you to help them out a bit by not worrying about late payments.
 
.....can you imagine thinking you were the boss, they become your residential tenant.....and then horror of horrors, they snap their fingers over any trivial little maintenance issue and you have to come running...by law.

Man, you could have some fun with a Landlord. I reckon I could think up some stuff going wrong, especially over winter, AT LEAST once a week for every week of the year.

$ 90 every time a tradie rolls up in the driveway, before he even steps out of the van.

Nightmare scenario.
 
hmmm.....tough one.

I've seen what can happen when things go pear shaped....

I think a lot of it comes down to the relationship you have with your sister. If you have an issue, will you be comfortable with addressing it with her?

Cheers

Jamie
 
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