Top order fail again.

The Gabba, 1st day of 1st Ashes Test in Australia and as usual, for the last fair few years now, the Aussie top order batsmen are failing and have to rely on the excellent depth in batting we have in the tail end.

About time the top order actually do what they are supposed to do and get runs...on a consistent basis.

Is there an inherent problem that can be identified here?

It's been happening for years now.
Some good (?) batting names in there but is The Pup the only one getting runs? (not today tho)

:(
 
The Gabba, 1st day of 1st Ashes Test in Australia and as usual, for the last fair few years now, the Aussie top order batsmen are failing and have to rely on the excellent depth in batting we have in the tail end.

About time the top order actually do what they are supposed to do and get runs...on a consistent basis.

Is there an inherent problem that can be identified here?

It's been happening for years now.
Some good (?) batting names in there but is The Pup the only one getting runs? (not today tho)
:(

Micky Arthur was a SA spy sent to undermine the confidence of our players:eek:
We need to get rid of all the hangers on and replace them with old players and get right back to basics. If they are fit they play, none of this rotation rubbish, play our best players all the time so that they feel like a team again.
 
Have to agree Macca, the ex players have the best experience and still the passion.

Why is it just the batsmen though, I cant recall how many times the low order has pulled Australia through but it's been plenty.
 
I'm not a cricket expert. Played as a kid a bit, but the rest is armchair expert stuff. :eek::D

Why don't they move the failing top order batters down to say; 3 and 4, and move the 3 and 4's up?

And, why do they never force the gun bowlers to get some decent level of skill as batters; instead we traditionally have strike fast bowlers who pretty much couldn't make contact with the ball any better than I could.

I know they have to work hard on being champion bowlers, but a half hour per session in the nets at the batter's crease would surely help?
 
Yep, armchair comment the one about bowlers not being able to hit the ball.

That's just it, our bowlers HAVE been able to get runs, just when our top order cant get them.

That's what Im saying has been happening for many years now...or so it seems.

It's the batters not pulling their weight and the bowlers doing double the work !
 
I know they have to work hard on being champion bowlers, but a half hour per session in the nets at the batter's crease would surely help?

Because batting isn't their job. That is why Test cricket favours specialists over all rounders. Plus the gruelling nature of Test cricket with the longer overs / batting times means that there isn't a place for a true all rounder as their body just wouldn't be able to perform at their peak all the time.
 
Also in the nets, the bowlers practice their bowling and the batsmen their batting. They will be too tired to have their full concentration if giving it their all during training.
 
And, why do they never force the gun bowlers to get some decent level of skill as batters; instead we traditionally have strike fast bowlers who pretty much couldn't make contact with the ball any better than I could.

Mitchell Johnson just made 64, our wicket keeper is on 72no. Yet three of our batsmen didnt even get to 5!

The problem is the batsmen, not the bowlers. The bowlers have bailed us out many times over the last year.
 
I think it comes down to not enough practice in the long form of the game. Coming out to bat for only 20-30 overs is a different mental process to batting for 1.5 days. They need more Sheffield Shield less one day and 20/20.
 
20/20 is the culprit I feel.

ODI's have been around for ages now and there are the specialists in both forms.

It's the batting top order that needs a rocket fired up to go in and take pride and ownership of their wicket and don't let it go so cheaply.

You are right, just look at the shots played today that wickets fell on.

Very disappointing as the talent is there but the execution is not, at the moment.

I'm all for the change in culture, get the former aussie players involved in management/training and watch the turnaround.
 
I have read that they had to self analyze their performance after each innings under the previous coach.

Trying to analyze something as natural as hand/eye coordination is going to lead to thinking instead of just doing.

Somethings can't really be explained in words or broken down in to stages, just do it :)
 
I have read that they had to self analyze their performance after each innings under the previous coach.

Trying to analyze something as natural as hand/eye coordination is going to lead to thinking instead of just doing.

Somethings can't really be explained in words or broken down in to stages, just do it :)

All too often the problem is nothing to do with hand eye coordination, it is the mental side of it. Like Watson not being able to leave a ball alone in the last over before lunch, or Warner being more focused on moving off 49 than playing a ball on its merits.

These weren't wicket taking balls, but these batsmen got themselves out. Honest Self analysis is what these two in particular need.
 
Also in the nets, the bowlers practice their bowling and the batsmen their batting. They will be too tired to have their full concentration if giving it their all during training.
I'm only talking about an extra say; 30 mins of batting in a full day of training.

How many hours per day do they train? It would be at least half a day I'd expect?

As a golf coach, one of the things we had to do with elite golfers was analyse their strengths and weaknesses and get them to pay more attention to those weaknesses.

A full-time player would typically practice for 3 hours, and play 18 holes - every day.

But, it's broken down into sections - 30 mins putting, 30 mins on chipping, 30 mins on pitching - and so on.

Then go and play 9 holes, and go back for a bit more putting, some driving, some long irons or whatever, then out for another 9 holes later...it stops the player from getting bored, and keeps them circulating through the various aspects like they would have to do on the golf course.

But, if the player is well above average in say; pitching - but cr@p at chipping - they may substitute half of their pitching time towards chipping, etc.

Surely (as a loose example) someone like a Glenn McGrath - who is already a fantastic bowler, can slot in a few extra minutes of batting with a batting coach, and drop a few minutes off the bowling practice which he already excels in?

All too often the problem is nothing to do with hand eye coordination, it is the mental side of it. Like Watson not being able to leave a ball alone in the last over before lunch, or Warner being more focused on moving off 49 than playing a ball on its merits.

My opinion on the openers (as a golf coach) is that they are in the team because they are already fantastic batsmen, so the problem is probably a mental issue, as you say.

I tend to agree that the change in format (and less test play) doesn't help their mental adjustment. They get used to scoring runs very quickly in 20/20, and then have to switch to "stay at the crease and plod along" Colin Cowdrey type cricket mode. It would be very frustrating and cause impatience, I would wager.

I think the problem has more depth to it though; off the field politics and so on can have a very large impact on a player's performance, and a few failures at the crease only compounds the mental state.

Those guys may need to spend time with a sports psychologist (if they don't already) like many of the golfers do to give them a consistent thought plan for each ball bowled.
 
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A couple of reasons IMO. Too many one day games on flat pitches. For example, Bailey smashed the Indian attack in the one day series last month on flat, batting wickets. Get him into a test match against a class attack on a wicket with a bit of juice (not much, but more than those Indian pitches) and it's a completely different game.

Too many players who can't leave the ball alone. The Watson, Clarke and Warner dismissals were soft dismissals. Not enough of our batsmen can play for time, they are always trying to dominate the attack. You can't do that all the time in test cricket.

The batting is poor in shield cricket as well. Bailey is picked after averaging 36 in his first class career. Shaun Marsh averages 38, and has made 7 first class hundreds in over 140 first class innings. Seven! And some people want him in the team.

Contrast this to Mike Hussey, who had 15,000 first class runs and over 30 hundreds before he was picked. Same with Mark Waugh. Now, we are forced to pick batsmen who aren't ready, or aren't good enough. A guy who averages 36 in first class cricket, playing half of his games at Bellerive, shouldn't be playing for Australia.

So my thinking is, they fail often because they aren't very good. Why aren't they very good? Too much emphasis on oneday and T20 cricket, and not enough on technique, Shield cricket and building an innings.
 
Agree, the quality of state cricket has dropped off and the depth just doesn't seem to be there.
I remember when state cricket had Lehmann, Martyn, Langer all battling for spots.

I think it would take a whole lot of time for a specialist bowler to become decent with the bat. The specialist bowler may become better than they were before but they are facing the specialist bowlers in the other team. Its not that they're cr@p at batting, more that they just aren't *quite* as good as the others. Due to the level they're playing at, any difference looks exaggerated.
Kind of like a gold-medal champion swimmer and the swimmer that just comes third or fourth. Its often only fractions of a second.

I kind of see the quality of the team as a cycle. For whatever reason, it is never good all the time. It was not that long ago that England were a laughing stock. We really can't complain though - having Gilchrist Warne and McGrath in one team - we were really lucky and shouldn't expect that to continue.

But, yeah, our current batting order is terrible.
 
I was in Brisbane at my daughter's place the last time England played in Australia. She was in a city high rise, just across from (I think) the Pig and Whistle- the unofficial pub of the Barmy Army. Even up on the 26th story you could hear them going all night.

I was thinking of going to the Gabba, but I was with my daughter. Who said, "Dad, let's go to the cricket". Yes! (Though she wasn't interested in the game, just the guys watching).

It was a good first day for Australia as I remember. Probably the last one for the tour.
 
Not looking so bad now, eh?

I think there's a fair chance Warner and Smith (who I'd shuffle up the order a touch if the openers stay in for a while) will put this one away from here.
 
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