want to get back at dodgy agent

Like I said, if showing people through "under contract" properties is illegal, then I want to see agent's license either canceled or suspended.
And I expect nothing otherwise.

I seriously doubt you'll achieve what you want. All you'll end up doing is wasting your own time. If this is enough to get you so worked up, property is going to be very difficult for you.

The agent works for the SELLER. NOT for you. That's just how it is.
Alex
 
The only thing that seems wrong in this story is your attitude Helen! I have a feeling that you would disagree with this also.
there is nothing wrong with my attitude. If showing people through "under offer" property is illegal in Victoria, then I will get this agent suspended, and I will do nothing if it's not against the law.

I see that there is no chance for getting any useful advice on this matter here,
so Cheers all,
have a good day.
 
there is nothing wrong with my attitude. If showing people through "under offer" property is illegal in Victoria, then I will get this agent suspended, and I will do nothing if it's not against the law.

I see that there is no chance for getting any useful advice on this matter here,
so Cheers all,
have a good day.

Dummy bidding, over-quoting, under quoting, agents or their related entites buying properties..... all sorts of things are dodgy and probably illegal. Do they happen? Yes. Do people lose their licenses for it? Rarely.

Helen has too much moral outrage for property, methinks.
Alex
 
Do you really think it's worth it? Better to use your energy to finding another property, no? If you're going to get this worked up every time an agent does something dodgy, property is probably not the right game for you.
Alex

I agree! It seems like the agent was acting in the best interest of the seller which is their job!

All the best

X
 
there is nothing wrong with my attitude. If showing people through "under offer" property is illegal in Victoria, then I will get this agent suspended, and I will do nothing if it's not against the law.

I see that there is no chance for getting any useful advice on this matter here,

It isn't illegal in South Australia. What is useful advice anyway? I think there has been a lot of useful advice; I guess the issue is that you don't agree with it. Most people here have said that what has happened may not be illegal, and even if it was, they wouldn't expend the energy in pursuing the matter. :confused: Have you paid a deposit yet?
 
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yes, they agreed on price reduction in writing and has instructed their solicitor accordingly.

We did not try to push them into poverty; the house has significant structural faults and we only demanded price reduced by the sum required by underpinning contractors.
In fact, I doubt it will pass any proper building inspection as the slab has sagged by 10cm.

Wouldn't the fact that the Vendors agreed in writing have any bearing on this?

If this was my lawyer, I'm sure he would be enforcing the contract.
 
Hello Helen

Can I check some facts here:

You put an offer on a house – submitted a written and signed contract

The offer was accepted by the vendor – signed by the vendor and the contracts exchanged

The building report showed that the concrete slab had shifted 10cms and you negotiated a reduction in the price as per a quote you had obtained for remedial work

The reduction in price was agreed to by the vendor in writing – was the contract amended to the new price?

The vendor has now withdrawn from the contract



You also consider that the vendor should not have required or allowed further inspections of the property during the period between exchange of contract ‘subject to’ the building inspection

You consider that the Agent should have stopped advertising or marked the advertising as ‘under contract’ during the ‘subject to’ period



Apart from questions such as why would you want to buy the property with such material problems, it would seem to be that the problem lies with the vendor withdrawing from the contract when it was not their prerogative to do so.

It would also seem that your conveyancer’s comment ‘we advise the agent could be in breach of his duty and professional code of conduct if he marketed the property while the contract is still in force’ is gratuitous and irrelevant. The Agent is acting under a professional duty to the vendor and on their instructions. Not to continue marketing the property until there is an unconditional contract of sale would be in breach of that duty unless specifically instructed to cease by the vendor. The agent is the agent of the vendor and must act according the authority from the vendor. The agent does not owe you a duty of care in this regard.

It would seem to me that your concern should be with the vendor and that you should instruct your conveyancer or more specifically, your solicitor, to seek redress from the vendor, either feasance of the contract or reimbursement for the building inspection costs

However, to want to ‘get back’ at the agent is neither accurate nor productive, as the agent is not a principal in the contract.

The vendor is, so if (a) the contract has been signed and exchanged, and (b) the reduction in price was agreed to in writing, and (c) the contract is then unconditional, the vendor may not withdraw from the contract and can be required to proceed.




You may care to contact Consumer Affairs Victoria http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/CA25...ling+Property~&2=60-When+Things+Go+Wrong~&3=~ where you can clarify with someone who is impartial as to the law regarding the promoting of property for sale.

Provided that an exchanged contract of sale does not yet exist, ie, a written offer by the purchaser accepted and signed by the vendor and a copy of the signed contract returned to the purchaser, then an agent is required to continue to promote the property and to elicit offers from prospective purchasers.

At a recent Auction in Melbourne, a higher offer was accepted after the fall of the hammer, and the subsequent sale proceeded. The buyer was gazumped. This may be unpleasant but it is not illegal.



Sorry to hear that you have been disappointed. You may care to consider that attempting to wreak vengeance on the agent may be an inappropriate action and not one founded in law, nor in common sense.


Far better to find another property where the concrete slab is where it is meant to be and where the vendor keeps to their side of the bargain

Cheers
Kristine
 
Hi all,

Helen, if you are still around, did you go with your contract to a solicitor?? (and for that matter the signed agreement for the price change??).

I think you would have difficulty proving the agent was acting illegally while the contract was "subject too".

My understanding is that here in Victoria the sale note is as good as the contract.

The agent may not be the person you should be after, but rather the vendor via legal action (breech of contract?).

Good luck with your decision on what to do, but as others have stated there is much dodgy behaviour in the REA game and your probably better off looking for another property rather than going after the agent.

Remember, with the current state of the market, the opportunity of a lifetime may come more often than every Tuesday. (with acknowledgement to Kristine)

bye
 
Helen, as property investors we are net buyers (ie we've been buyers more times than we've been sellers), so I'm not sure why you think we'd be naturally inclined to be unsympathetic; we're not. But we've been through enough collective transactions to know how this game works. I'm not sure why you're so unwilling to receive impartial, informed advice. I guess you're feeling very emotional right now.

Helen, I agree with Kristine that the conveyancer's failure to nominate specific behaviour by the real estate agent indicates that they were just trying to sympathise with you or something; I really wouldn't place any weight on such a throw-away line.

I agree with several other posters though that the vendor may have a legal problem, and you'd have much more sympathy and prospect of success pursuing them, if you really want to. If they've accepted your price reduction in writing, you surely still have a valid contract, and the vendor can be compelled to complete ("specific performance"). I'd consult a solicitor immediately on this matter.

But leave the poor agent to carry on doing his job.
 
I think the issue here is that Helen does not and will not accept unethical/illegal behavior by the agent and everyone that has replied here does.

Simple really. Will be interesting to se what the outcome is.
 
I think the issue here is that Helen does not and will not accept unethical/illegal behavior by the agent and everyone that has replied here does.
I don't accept that behaviour at all. If there was evidence of either unethical or illegal behaviour I'd be cheering Helen on, but she hasn't yet presented anything other than a "throwaway" line from a conveyancer (who is prohibited from giving legal advice).
 
i'm not sure about vic - but in nsw the agent can keep getting as many people thru as house as possible up and until the contracts are "exchanged" unconditionally.

both parties signing a contract is not exchanging. and if new contracts with the new price stated on them was not yet "exchanged" (a physical act where the conveyancers swap contracts with the conveyancer of the other party) then nothing is binding and both the vendor and buyer can opt out.

on our last purchase we had about 6 contracts go out to two potential purchasers as they battled it out to be the highest bidder with the least conditions. not one of them was binding until both the vendor and purchaser agreed and the conveyancers physically swapped signed contracts.

besides - why would you want to buy a property with a sagging slab? more trouble than it's worth. personally, i'd find something better.
 
Apologies, i should have typed 'almost everyone' instead of 'everyone'.

Do you agree that when an offer is accepted in principle the property is 'off the market'. If not legally, then morally.

I don't accept that behaviour at all. If there was evidence of either unethical or illegal behaviour I'd be cheering Helen on, but she hasn't yet presented anything other than a "throwaway" line from a conveyancer (who is prohibited from giving legal advice).
 
I think the issue here is that Helen does not and will not accept unethical/illegal behavior by the agent and everyone that has replied here does.

Simple really. Will be interesting to se what the outcome is.

Getting a back up contract appears to be neither illegal nor unethical. I cannot see the problem with the agent.

If Helen was a vendor, and had a contract with a three week finance clause, would she not want the agent to keep marketing the house in case the finance didn't come through? That is what happens here in Brisbane and according to Urban, it is not illegal nor unethical (from my reading of his reply). My mother used to get back up contracts all the time for just this reason. Not all contracts go through to complete, and as a vendor, I would want somebody waiting in the wings rather than have to start the ball rolling again. Very often, the finance or building clause is used to "get out" of a contract when there really is not a problem with either building or finance. It depends on how well written the clauses is.

It appears that the issue here is whether or not the vendor has done the wrong thing. This is what needs to be followed up, surely. It doesn't even seem clear from the information given whether this is the case.
 
My understanding is that agents would stop showing through prospective buyers once they have a unconditional contract. Until then the property is not truly sold.

In this case from my understanding there was never an unconditional contract.

The first contract was subject to building inspection and given the inspection did not give the house a clean bill of health the purchaser cancelled the contract.

The purchaser then attempted to enter a second contract on a lower price due to the buiding inspection which was originally agreed to but never put in writing. The vendors are now not interested in selling for that lower price.

The agent is continuing to show prospective buyers through as they are yet to get an unconditional contract for the vendor. And as it illustrated above a conditional contract can, and often do, fall over.

I am not sure why any of this is an issue for the purchaser. If they have a signed contract the property is theirs unless they use one of their clauses as an out. No one else can take the property away from them while they have a contract in place.

If they don't have a signed contract in place and only verbal negotaions are taking place then they are on the same footing as all other potential buyers and the property is still on the market.

I am unclear how the agent continuing to show people through effects you if you already have a signed contract. You can now decide to proceed or not. The choice is yours.
 
Ah just realised I wrote something factually incorrect. The lower price was put in writing.

If this is the case then surely Helen could proceed with the contract at the lower price? I agree the issue is with the vendor not the agent. Her solicitor needs to sort it out with the other solicitor given its in writing. I think Helen's solitcior is letting her down by pointing at the agent rather than taking direct action. Going after the agent, who may or may not have shown people through, and who may or may not have acted unethically, does not help resolve the real issue.
 
Just checked with Consumer Affairs.
http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/CA256902000FE154/Lookup/CAV_Publications_RealEstate_Buying_and_Selling_a_Home/$file/realestateguide.pdf

According to this document a sales agreement is not binding unless in writing and signed by both parties. I am unclear if this was the case here?
 
Do you agree that when an offer is accepted in principle the property is 'off the market'. If not legally, then morally.

Unfortunately courts dont look at morals, just legals! Once you accept that, then it becomes 'easier' I guess, to move on.
 
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