Warm & fuzzy meeting with other flat owners :)

[kylieshines]

Does anyone have any experiences to share about a strata manager
that they didn't like, and trying to replace them? Most articles
that I've read talk about the "owners corporation" (i.e. all owners
in a block of units) being able to do certain things, but it
makes them sound like a cohesive unit - what's the best way
to get to know the other owners?

(I like to provide details so this post covers quite a few questions.
Please feel free to answer only some of them if needed ;-) . Any help
would be better than none.
)

I own a flat within a block of units. What is a way of finding
out the contact details of the other owners, and will that
include their phone numbers and whether they live in their unit
or are renting it out?

I'd like to find out their experiences with our strata manager.
Is there any way of finding out the above details without contacting
the strata manager? They'll suspect something is "up" if I ask
for them.

Can the strata manager charge a fee for providing owners' contact
details, and how much might it be?

They enjoy charging fees. E.g. for taxation purposes, I wanted to
find out information about the original builder of the units and
about repairs that took place 10 years ago before the units were
sold off to people like me. But no, these are 'professional' people:
they say giving me that information isn't a normal part of their
normal 'services' and that I would be charged almost $200 an hour
just for this privilege. And if they have to look into the 'archives'
there will be another (unspecified) fee on top of that.

Is this really the market rate for this kind of "work"? It seems
way too excessive for this kind of basic information.

I told the strata manager that I'd require this information for my
taxes (to work out depreciation) and whether he doesn't use
depreciation in his own taxes. I was pompously told that he doesn't
own a unit in our block because that would be a conflict of interest.

And yet, the owner of this strata managing company DID own a unit
in our block initially 10 years ago and had it for at least a few
years. I'm not sure when they sold it. Is there a law actually
stating that they can't own a unit in a block of units that they
manage - if so, did this law come into existence in the last 10 years
or was the strata manager breaking it?

In any case even if they did sell it, they have always been buddies
with the subsequent owners of that unit. Naturally this unit always
has repairs that are paid for by others (typically leaking shower
floor, sealing shower, and burst pipes).

In every Annual General Meeting for a long time, only the owner of
that unit and myself have been present, with no other owners
casting any votes. That's a mere two people, and of course the owner
of that unit always pulls with what strata manager wants and it's
not possible to pass any agenda item that they don't want to.

Please let me know of any experience you have with other contacing
other owners of a unit and how you organized a meeting (over the
phone? over a cup of tea?). I don't know how many of the owners
actually live in their unit - I think most rent it out which makes
it more difficult, and of course they haven't been interested enough
so far to even attend AGM's.

To dismiss a strata manager, my understanding is that you need to
get a majority vote at a meeting. Importantly, is that the majority
of the owners voting, or of all owners? E.g. if there are 15 units
in the block, and there are 5 owners in the meeting, do you
need 8 yes votes, or 3?

My understanding is also that this meeting doesn't have to be the
AGM, but can be an EGM (Extraordinary General Meeting), which
can be called by the majority of the Executive Committee, or by
at least 1/4 of the total owners of the units.

That now brings the strata manager's contract into play - it
wouldn't do to break the contract. At the moment, I don't know what
the contract terms are because the flat was bought by someone else
and given to me. We've had the same strata manager for 10 years
and no details of their contract ever appeared in any agenda item
at an AGM. Is it possible that they could have a clause in their
contract stating that they can't be dismissed for x years after
any AGM?

Every year they increase their yearly fee of course - is there any
requirement that this fee be voted upon?

In every AGM there's a vote on who will form the Executive Committee,
and since only two unit owners are ever present, we vote ourselves
in. I wonder what would happen if each of us refused to vote for
the other person?

Now, what is an Executive Committee actually for? In the beginning
I didn't really do anything - the strata manager (or the other
person on the Executive Committee) was approving repairs for
other units, e.g. emergencies or damage to the
common property. As an Executive Committee member I asked if I
could also be involved in this. For a while, they did mail out
details of repairs and asked if I would approve of them.

But then this stopoed so that now I don't do anything.
They seem to go solely to the secretary for approval. Is this
something that should or must go to the Executive Committee instead?

Is there actually anything that the Executive Committee MUST do?
On the internet I read a lot of information about strata living and
that one can't do certain things without getting approval from the
"owners corporation", but in my case I find it's the
strata manager or the owner of the other unit who get to decide
everything.

E.g. the strata manager has to employ contractors to various things
of course (like cleaning). Sometimes these
are too high-priced and the manager usually makes an effort to
reduce them after I tell them this. But of course I don't get
invited to approve any fees in the first place - I only find out
about it annually when they send out the AGM notices.

Finally, can anyone recommend a good strata manager? If you've
managed to appoint your own strata manager, what questions
did you ask them before doing so? I guess it would be preferable
if the strata manager had their own website with contact details -
it's easier to read about them first before contacing them blind.

 

[Aceyducey]

Kylie,

Corsa's had some experience in this area and has made some good posts in the forum about it. You can find them using Search, possibly Advanced Search.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[Corsa]

Does anyone have any experiences to share about a strata manager that they didn't like, and trying to replace them? Most articles
that I've read talk about the "owners corporation" (i.e. all owners
in a block of units) being able to do certain things, but it
makes them sound like a cohesive unit - what's the best way
to get to know the other owners?

Dear Kylie

Acey is correct, I went through this a year ago. I was dissatisfied with the level of service being provided with one of my units so went about initiating a change of management. At the time, I was new to the process also and bounced a lot of my ideas etc of Acey and Asy on the forum who were both a really great help in working out what to do.

What I did was I contacted the Strata Manager and advised that I was considering intiating a review of the current strata management and could I obtain a list of all the current owners. I also asked the current Strata Manager to requote for there current services. The Strata Manager agreed to this and just asked me to keep them in the loop of any communications that I sent out to the owners which I adhered to.

I wrote a letter to all the owners effectively seeking a change of management to improve the service levels and I also provided details of 5 quotations that I had sought including the current strata managers quote. I worked out an effective cost per unit in the complex as many strata managers quote differently for there services so it was important to compare all companies on the same pricing structure. In addition to this I emphasised that pricing was not the most important factor for consideration, that quality of service and client satisfaction was also important. I included a vote form in the mail-out. I also pointed out that after my review of the 5 quotes, which one I preferred and why I preferred them.

I received quite a few calls asking me why I had done this, and for each call I just highlighed 3 tangible occasions where the service levels with the current strata manager had not been as expected and pointed out capital works projects that were still incomplete a year behind schedule. Most people after this discussion sent a proxy form allowing me to include there vote for a change of management.

Normally there was only 2 owners present during this meeting, not enough to make a quoram. But because of my mail out quite a few owners were present and/or cast there proxy so we were able to make decisions which was a great outcome in itself. Going into the AGM, we dealt with all business, and then the current strata manager was asked to leave the room while we discussed the change of management. At the end of the day, it was a split vote, with all my votes plus the votes in the room to change managers equalled the number who were against the change. Then the current Strata Manager came back to the room, because it was split he had to use his proxy votes for a decision and he voted to change managers. The current executive committee then said no, they wanted to use the Strata Managers proxy votes to sway the decision to not chanage managers - that is to give the current strata managers an opportunity to improve.

So that was a year ago. Over the past year, the strata manager has continued not to perform and now the executive committee and a group of interested parties are meeting next week to discuss a change in management. The main lesson I learnt out of the process I went through last year was to contact all owners as early as possible and to try and talk to everyone about what you are trying to acheive. At the end of the day, most unit holders were resistant to change so went with what they knew rather than the unknown. Also get the executive committee on board as much as you can.


You can call an EGM but it can be quite cost prohibitive to break the contract before the end of term. Usually a contract term is recommenced at each AGM on approval of the unit holders so you can probably assume that it ends at the time of the next AGM or you can clarify this with the Strata Manager.

I dont have any issues with a Strata Manager charging fees for there services. It is when people get paid well for the job they perform that they tend to provide a higher quality of services. When we asked the current manager to requote for there contract, they submitted a proposal which did not include an increase. At the very minimum we were able to negotiate good rates for the year ahead which was a good outcome even when we didnt get a change of management.

I know this is a lot of detail, and I am probably not answering all your questions but by going through this process we identified a number of people who were interested in having a well run body corporate. So now we meet irregurarly - say quarterly over coffee to discuss the running of the corporate. Building a repoir with people will come into your advantage when it comes time to drive some change in the units. This is what I didnt do. I went in without knowing a soul and sent letters out and did my best to effect change but in the end it didnt work. I think this year we have a better chance as now I have prooved myself over the last year by meeting with them, talking through the issues and assisting with providing practical solutions to these issues.

Hope this is of some help and all the best with your units.

Attached is the letters I sent out to the owners for your reference.

Best Wishes

Corsa

 

[ralph wiggum]

Very interesting thread guys. Just to let you know Corsa, that the attachments wouldn't open for me.
Cheers

 

[Corsa]

Hi Ralph,

could you kindly try the attachments again? They work for me?

Cheers

Corsa

 

[ralph wiggum]

Yeah, they work for me now. Thanks

 

[kylieshines]

Changing your strata manager

Thanks very much Corsa! That was most helpful.

A few more comments..

> What I did was I contacted the Strata Manager and advised that I was
> considering intiating a review of the current strata management and
> could I obtain a list of all the current owners.

Thanks. I guess there's no way of getting the unit owners' contact
details without going through the strata manager, right?

> Normally there was only 2 owners present during this meeting, not enough
> to make a quoram.
> ....
> while we discussed the change of management. At the end of the day, it
> was a split vote, with all my votes plus the votes in the room to change
> managers equalled the number who were against the change. Then the
> current Strata Manager came back to the room, because it was split he
> had to use his proxy votes for a decision and he voted to change
> managers.

In our meetings we also always have only 2 owners, which is also below
the quorom for us. If there's a split vote, the vote effectively becomes
'no'. The strata manager does not get any vote, in my experience - were
you stating above that the Strata Manager did get the deciding vote? Or
just that the Strata Manager used proxy votes from unit owners who were
not present at the meeting?

> Also get the executive committee on board as much as you can.

That ties in with what I mentioned in my original post, i.e. I am
on the executive committee but I'm not sure what my 'powers'
(if any) are, and so I don't get to do anything at all. Our strata manager
just runs the whole show, and not that well IMO.

> Usually a contract term is recommenced at each AGM on approval of the
> unit holders so you can probably assume that it ends at the time of the
> next AGM or you can clarify this with the Strata Manager.

So does such an item appear on your AGM's agenda list? As I mentioned
in my original post, it never does on mine. There's never any mention
on the agenda to approve the Strata Manager for another term,
nor how much they are to be paid for the year - must such an item be
there? The contract that we have with the Strata Manager was signed
years ago and just states that their term will be up to "review" each
AGM, but there's never been any vote on it.

 

[kylieshines]

Dissatisfied with your strata manager

Is anyone able to help with issues that Corsa was not able to cover?
Specifically -

- Can anyone recommend a good strata manager? With people that listen
and don't have a superiority complex?
- To dismiss a strata manager, do you just need a majority of Yes votes from
those present at the meeting (plus any proxies) like normal,
or do you need Yes votes covering at least half of all the units?
E.g. if there are 15 units in the block, and there are only 5 owners in
the meeting, do you need 8 yes votes, or 3?
- If the strata manager owns a unit in a flat that they manage, is that a
conflict of interest, as one of their employees have now told me?
The principal of this strata managing company did own one of the
units some years back.
- Wanting to get information about repairs (cost, etc) that happened to
all units 10 years ago before they were sold to investors: is almost
$200 an hour a reasonable fee for this sort of information? It sounds
like a lawyer-esque fee. How much does a strata manager employee earn?

Thanks very much for any help that you can provide. These forums
are great.

 

[Corsa]

Thanks. I guess there's no way of getting the unit owners' contact
details without going through the strata manager, right?

Not that I am aware of. Being upfront with people always helps in these delicate areas i think.

In our meetings we also always have only 2 owners, which is also below
the quorom for us. If there's a split vote, the vote effectively becomes
'no'. The strata manager does not get any vote, in my experience - were
you stating above that the Strata Manager did get the deciding vote? Or
just that the Strata Manager used proxy votes from unit owners who were
not present at the meeting?

The Strata Manager doesnt get to vote but if people give them there proxy votes then they use these votes.

That ties in with what I mentioned in my original post, i.e. I am
on the executive committee but I'm not sure what my 'powers'
(if any) are, and so I don't get to do anything at all. Our strata manager
just runs the whole show, and not that well IMO.

The Strata Manager does that, manages the Strata. The Executive Committee suppports the Strata and can assist the Strata Manager when decisions needs to be made. The Strata Manager does not have the power to do much without approving it with unit holders and/or the executive committee first.

So does such an item appear on your AGM's agenda list? As I mentioned
in my original post, it never does on mine. There's never any mention
on the agenda to approve the Strata Manager for another term,
nor how much they are to be paid for the year - must such an item be
there? The contract that we have with the Strata Manager was signed
years ago and just states that their term will be up to "review" each
AGM, but there's never been any vote on it.

If it is not on the agenda, you can ask for this item to be put on the agenda at the start of the meeting or call the strata manager and ask that they put it on the agenda before they send the agenda out.

It is a bit strange that it is not on the agenda, but not an unsurmountable issue.

- Can anyone recommend a good strata manager? With people that listen and don't have a superiority complex?

In my post I gave you the letters that I sent out to other unit holders and the 5 companies that we used here in SA. You may have to do some ground work and ring up a couple of places and get them to send you quotations in your state. Or others on the forum may be able to provide recommendation.s When I rang around I just asked them, how would you deal with this situation or that situation, you also get a feel for the person when you are talking to them. If they are very helpful at that stage then that is a good sign that they will make a good strata manager, without the superiority complexes etc. Plus remember they are working for your strata group, they can be guided as to what your expectatations will be as well. Just look under strata management in the yellowpages.

- To dismiss a strata manager, do you just need a majority of Yes votes from those present at the meeting (plus any proxies) like normal,
or do you need Yes votes covering at least half of all the units?
E.g. if there are 15 units in the block, and there are only 5 owners in
the meeting, do you need 8 yes votes, or 3?

You need a quorum to start off with, so you need at least 8 units voting (present or proxy). Then it is a majority vote after that so you need 5 of the 8 votes for the change. Thats how it works in sa anyway.

- If the strata manager owns a unit in a flat that they manage, is that a conflict of interest, as one of their employees have now told me?
The principal of this strata managing company did own one of the
units some years back.

I rang my strata manager about this question. He said that if he owned a unit then he would make sure he wasnt managing. But he said legally there was nothing to prevent him from owning plus managing.

Technically I dont think it is a conflict of interest. They would be entitled to vote per all other voters. If the principle does not own a unit any longer then that definately decreases the likelihood that a conflict of interest either actual or perceived exists.

- - Wanting to get information about repairs (cost, etc) that happened to
all units 10 years ago before they were sold to investors: is almost
$200 an hour a reasonable fee for this sort of information? It sounds
like a lawyer-esque fee. How much does a strata manager employee earn?

I rang my strata manager for this question as well to see what they think. Here in SA, if I asked them for this kind of information they would charge $88 per hour. If I asked for a photocopy of something that was readily available they wouldnt charge me, but if they have to do some research or further work to find out the answers then they would charge me or the strata depending on what was being asked. This request falls under additional duties.
additional duties.

Basically, people need to charge for there services to enable them to remain financially viable. This is not a day to day kind of request so its probably reasonable that they are charging you to do this research.

How much do they earn? Dont know how much, would guess somewhere around $50,000 to $70,000? But I dont think that that is that relevant to what they charge for there services.

All the best

Corsa

 

[kylieshines]

Thanks very much Corsa again! Especially for taking the trouble
to ring your strata manager just to answer some of my questions.

> The Strata Manager does not have the power to do much without approving it with unit holders and/or the executive committee first.

Ah well. Maybe the law is different in NSW, but our strata manager does
everything without consulting the executive committee at all.

> You need a quorum to start off with, so you need at least 8 units voting
> (present or proxy). Then it is a majority vote after that so you need 5 of
> the 8 votes for the change. Thats how it works in sa anyway.

I think here in NSW the quorum is just 1/4 of the units.

> I rang my strata manager for this question as well to see what they think.
> Here in SA, if I asked them for this kind of information they would charge
> $88 per hour.
> ....
> Basically, people need to charge for there services to enable them to
> remain financially viable. This is not a day to day kind of request so its
> probably reasonable that they are charging you to do this research.

Thanks very much. I just thought that information about the original builders
and about any repairs done to the units would be elementary information
that's kept close at hand, but I guess not.
But at least I found out that $88 an hour is way less than what mine
wanted to charge me.