Way too conservative!

[Xenia]

Does anyone else find they outgrow accountants way too quickly?

I expect this with mentors and I have had mentors in the past that are now being mentored by me! That's a great outcome for mentors but so frustrating when it comes to accountants.

Accountants are so risk averse and when you grow to a level that they are no longer comforable with they become non effective.

The trouble is that most are working for a pay cheque and no matter how much they know about business development and property portfolios they still have a mindset that likes the security of a job. People growing by taking risks without job security really freaks them out, I don't think many of them really understand true financial freedom!!!!!

They certainly do not understand that real wealth is your own intrinsic value and once you have that you can do anything over and over again.

many tend to want to focus on "worst case scenarios" and have a very lack, scarcity mindset. If you lose money its the end of the world type of thing!

I know not all accountants think this way, I know James GG is very abundance focused and so are others, but there is something about that profession that attracts very conservative risk averse people more than other professions.

anyone else find that to be the case?

 

[AVD]

Hi!

I think the accountants you are referring to are those that don't practice what they preach. At the end of the day the accountant should be helping you achieve your goals because it's your choices and your decisions and you are ultimately liable for those, not your accountant.

Alysha

 

[Rob Williams]

Yeah, I used to be one. They train you for years to be risk averse and take a worst case view on everything.
For the average person, I think they give some balance to their decision making.
For those of us with a different mindset, I feel like some of them can hold us back. But only if we let them.
I had a meeting with the accountant setting up my SMSF the other day. He cautioned me about buying property with my fund. He knows nothing about what I do with property or any other investments.
I smiled politely and said thanks for setting up my fund and walked out. No point even engaging that mindset. Lost cause.
Given the % of the population that are accountants and the % of the population that share our mindset, I think the odds of finding an accountant that shares our midset are very long, indeed.

 

[Ajax]

Even though I don't earn a lot I use 2 accountants. One for company return and one for personal tax return. I'm starting to become concerned that my thinking is only as good as what I think up-in other words I am never going to get any inspirational or novel financial advice from the accountants I use.

I fear quite a few accountants are like that dreary woman in the ITP ad a few years ago...getting all excited because they find some small deduction their client can claim without having any perspective or interest in the bigger picture. Maybe its my instructions that are limiting my accountants input (at least for one of them who seems more adventurous and more into tax planning/advice).

 

[Electro]

I recently had a meeting with my accountant to discuss the possibility of me entering the property market and what would be the best way to go forward for my situation.

Not only did he absolutely agree that in my current situation I should be getting into the market asap but he also told me he owns 10+ IPs of his own and gave me some good insight into some of the methods he has used to get to this point.

Although he did charge me $120 for the 30-40min consultation (is this normal?), I think it was worth it and he should prove to be even more useful when I actually start building a portfolio.

He also got my friends father (who actually refered me to him a few yrs back) out of quite abit of trouble with something to do with his investment portfolio not too long ago

 

[Bradsdad]

I recently had a meeting with my accountant to discuss the possibility of me entering the property market and what would be the best way to go forward for my situation.

Not only did he absolutely agree that in my current situation I should be getting into the market asap but he also told me he owns 10+ IPs of his own and gave me some good insight into some of the methods he has used to get to this point.

Although he did charge me $120 for the 30-40min consultation (is this normal?), I think it was worth it and he should prove to be even more useful when I actually start building a portfolio.

He also got my friends father (who actually refered me to him a few yrs back) out of quite abit of trouble with something to do with his investment portfolio not too long ago

It's cheap for some

I got rid of one wanting to slug me $220 an hour

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Xenia, I trust you aren't as critical and condemnatory as you sometimes have come across in the Law of Attraction thread, and this one to a lesser extent.

Ultimately it is love that will bring you the most enduring riches and happiness. It is much more constructive to inspire and lift by compassion and positive energy, those you feel are in the grip of fear, doubt, and unbalanced appetites.

On the news tonight, there was a moving tribute to Jorn Utzon, the architect of the Sydney Opera House. He was quoted to have said that at the beginning of good architecture, is love. That is a great truth, and I would expand it to say, at the beginning of any significant pursuit, is love, not love of ideas and buildings, but love of lifting the human spirit. Imagine if Jorn had come to Sydney and thought, these coarse Australians are so repugnant and uncivil. I am not going to bother building this Opera House for them, which they could never appreciate.


As for professionals, it's their role to watch your back.
It's the entrepreneur's role to keep looking forwards, and not look back.

Always look within yourself first for what you feel you don't have.

Eventually resonant accountants and solis will find you.

 

[Piston Broke]

An accountant is just another person you hire to do a job.

If you hire someone to paint your house and tell them "Paint it how you think it should be" then there's a great chance that you won't be satisfied with the results.
Same if you don't tell the acountant how you want to run your business.

Unfortunately most people don't take the time to work it out and expect the accountant to read their minds.
Don't forget they deal on a daily basis with bankruptcies & repos.
They work very well as an economic barometer. A few years ago I started asking them if bankruptcies & repos are increasing.
Every time I'd ask, they were. A much better indicator than those published worthless stats or reserve bank speeches.

 

[Rob G.]

Problem is that Accountants cannot give financial advice.

Even though I might have thousands of hours professional learning on Tax and Commerce, I cannoy tell you to temporarily store a bit of working capital in a term deposit. This is against the law since a term deposit is a financial product.

You need to go to a Financial Advisor with their whopping 40 hours training which allows them to offer their "sponsor's" approved products regardless of whether they are suitable or not.

Truly independent Financial Advisors with their own license are very rare and they are VERY busy.

The Accountant usually only sees the client after they are all fired up by a Financial Advisor and paid their fees only to see the small print "consult your Accountant before acting on this advice".

It is then down to the Accountant to keep you on the right side of the Law with respect to the activities the client is now intent on pursuing.

This is a pretty unhappy arrangement given that Accountants are trained to fine tune business and investment activities, free up cash flow and maximise profitability for their client.

Cheers,

Rob

 

[GreatPig]

Wouldn't it make sense then for an accountant to get a financial advisor's licence as well?

GP

 

[Rob G.]

Getting an independent license is very hard and next to impossible to get insurance for.

That's why every Financial Advisor is tied to their providor's license, which means they can only offer the limited approved range of products.

Regardless of whether it is ethically or morally correct for the "client" for whom they are supposed to be representing and are being paid by (even indirectly by trails).

Cheers,

Rob

 

[bene313]

On one hand yes, many are simply working for a pay cheque.

But on the other, there are a fair few who are very much involved with business deals and investment outside of the accounting practice.

Guess it comes down to your choice of advisor.

 

[firstmillion]

Accountants are so risk averse and when you grow to a level that they are no longer comfortable with they become non effective.

That's why most mentors / seminars suggest to select an accountant who is an investor himself.

 

[Pushka]

I had a meeting with the accountant setting up my SMSF the other day. He cautioned me about buying property with my fund. He knows nothing about what I do with property or any other investments.
I smiled politely and said thanks for setting up my fund and walked out. No point even engaging that mindset. Lost cause.

Wow, Rob, your accountant is years behind mine! He suggested we set up an SMSF back in the early nineties (which we did) and then was really happy when we started buying property in the SMSF! He is also a qualified financial planner - maybe yours isnt?

Ah, I see he is quite unique in having the financial planning qualification. He is very much the investor. I do know it took him some years to obtain but he is not exactly risk averse. Almost the other way which isnt always a great thing at the moment. But he has also had some brilliant wins!

 

[Xenia]

That's why most mentors / seminars suggest to select an accountant who is an investor himself.

Yes and I'm one of those seminar people that suggest this

Problem is they are not a big enough investor to be financially independent!

There is a big difference between having a few properties to having a wealth mindset!

 

[our obsession]

Xenia:

anyone else find that to be the case?

Actually, yes.

It's been quite interesting, our accountant is quite an incredible person, she has a great deal of business ticking over, lots of clients..however we got rolling along with the old property investing thingy and I think it landed her in no-woman's land for a brief time.


Her comment to us was "I am learning from you guys", (meaning myself and partner), on not only buying property but the ongoing purchases. Debt for the purchases, the types of deals, the types of properties..perception of people renting, everything...she was; "but what if, what if this, what if that"....and then, "don't you think you have enough now?"

Xenia:

There is a big difference between having a few properties to having a wealth mindset!

Mindset, mindset, abundance focussed, I've been observing all this Xenia, even within the folk that take the leap and get themselves an IP or two or three, people's thoughts....writings, reactions on the somersoft board here, even..it's all quite interesting.

I just explain what we are focussed on (with our accountant), talk about the backups we have in place; eg insurance, solution orientated problem solving, $$$ buffer zones etc. The type of deals I negotiate, buying well, getting a good old wack of capital growth and rental returns...all the blah blah, I am attempting to take her on the journey a little too, at least as much as she wants/chooses to. Last time I spoke to her she had landed herself another IP.

I just perservered, communicating, educating, explaining the best I could, I think we have a good rapport and her response is really positive now, a how to best do this....how can I help you guys with the knowledge and experience I have.

It's turned into a win/win. Plus she has a junior staff accountant now, and she is kicking in with her ideas and what she can offer, plus learning from us, she's just bought her first IP. It's all gone from what we can't or shouldn't be doing, to what we can do now.

That patience and learning to communicate partly came from another friend of ours, an incredible lady on her own wealth creating journey..people are just so generous with help and sharing the stuff they've learnt.

 

[coastymike]

BradsDad

I find that sort of logic interesting. I charge $330 per hour and the logic is as follows. I have enough investments (both passive and active - even the active ones are managed by others) so that I do not need to provide accounting or tax advice.

I chose to do so because I enjoy the mental stimulation and love the law. Strange I know but it's something I enjoy. I also love meeting clients and hearing their stories and sharing and growing with them.

However it has an opportunity cost. It means I spend time doing that while giving up other things. For me that works out at $330 per hour.

I agree with Xenia a lot of accountants are not successful. They have not developed million dollar businesses, they do not hold substantial property portfolios and they could not leave their "job" if they wanted to. These people do charge less. Some charge $50 per hour.

So who would you rather take advice from. Someone who is successful and can charge accordingly or someone who has not been successful.

Your choice.

 

[want2bewealthy]

Lol its funny I should stumble upon this thread, I was just thinking about giving my accountant the flick.

She says that property is like 'forced savings' and I'm 'losing money' because I'm negatively geared.. forced savings! lol

Also never gets back to me about anything so time to grab my records and find a good one.

I wanted to know how my new buisness would affect me but she cant find the time to get back to me..

I used to care about being loyal to her but since she cannot help me effectively or at all anymore its time to think buisness.

 

[Rob G.]

Your Accountant could simply enrol on a professional day course and be an "expert" within hours.

If he really wanted your business ...

Cheers,

Rob

 

[Mry]

Another thing to keep in mind is that an accountant can act as a ying to your yang. If a client comes in to me with spreadsheets of the wealth they will make from a property development, its part of my job to look at their estimates, sale projections and cash flow analysis. One recent client showed that they would make 55k from a development, and then I pointed out that they would spend 70k in interest during that time due to their cash flow requirements. That's me, using my math skills to shatter dreams. They would have to review their project again to find either more cost savings or call it.

I don't see how accountants could call properties bad investments. After preparing numerous capital gains schedules for clients who have made bucketloads on property when I started out as an accountant, the only question after that was when I was going to do it myself.