Western Sydney areas ? Which are the best.

Hi, I wish to buy one or more investment properties in Western Sydney area. When I say western Sydney, I mean the areas from Parramatta onwards upto Penrith (if I follow the railway line), and all the sorrounding suburbs in this region. Apart from this I am also including areas around Quakers hills etc.

I am in a position to invest about 1.1 million (including loan amount) to buy properties. Even though I live in Sydney, my knowledge of this region is limited and I am a bit lost.

I am also inclined towards the idea of small development (like subdivision, townhouses/duplex construction) etc.

So, I request you (the experienced investors) to suggest me few ideas about what best can be done with about 1.1 mil in this region.

I am in a position to keep these investment properties for long term.

Please suggest me the suburbs presenting the best prospects in the scenario discussed above.

I will be grateful for all your suggestions.
 
I know the hills districts and surrounds quite well but for $$ your talking about do you think it would be wise to engage a buyers agent?
I'd suggest a few grand now would quite possibly save/make you $100's of thousands on a small development.
There are a few BA's on somersoft that live, work and invest in the area your talking about.

I know Jacque is very familiar with some of the areas your targetting, I'm sure there are other also.

Good Luck
 
What has your research told you so far?

Till now I haven't undertaken a great deal of research yet but I am of the opinion that most of the target area described above will have good demand for the rental property in the long term. It seems to me that the areas surrounding Parramatta are quite expensive and high in demand amongst this lot and for a good reason too, as Parramatta has good transport infrastructure and has become a mini CBD in itself.

Now the areas around Parramatta like Westmead, Wentworthville etc are benefitting from the similar reasons as well as from the flow on effect from Parramatta.

Areas further west on and around the railway line also benefit due to their accessibility to city/ Parra by rail. BUT in these areas despite huge demand for rentals, the prices haven't grown that much, it may be due to the inherent socio-economic traits of the populance of that region.

So when I compare the surrounds of Parra to the areas around Blacktown and beyond, I think areas around Parramatta will remain much more in favour. Another factor in Parramatta areas is it's schooling, lot of people live in Parramatta, Girraween etc due to some quality schooling opportunities for their kids. While saying all this I think places around and beyond Blacktown i.e Rooty Hills, St Marys , Mt. Druitt and all the way to Penrith presents good opportunities too. Going by the demographic trends in Sydney, it seems that rental prospects are quite good for these regions in the long run. Even though the areas around Parra may remain more in favour but buying in the outer western may represent a better value for money from an investor's perspective. Given the funds I have, I may be able to buy 2 or may be 3 property in outer west but around Parra/westmead, I will struggle to buy one good property to develop upon.

As one can tell, the ideas expressed above are just a marco analysis within the sphere of my limited knowledge, this is the very reason I wanted to get the ideas from the seasoned investors in this region.

I am in a position to invest about 1.1m (including loan) and the 20% portion of this money, I have received by selling my PPOR, it is a very hard earned money and I wish to make a well informed decision to get a good bang for my buck.

Your input will be much appreciated, please let me know what ideas/strategies would you put into operation to invest this amount.

C'MON, Folks, Please give your input, I haven't received much response yet.

THANKS AGAIN.
 
C'MON, Folks, Please give your input, I haven't received much response yet.

THANKS AGAIN.

In all honesty, the reason you have not received much response is because most investors have spent many years and countless hours researching, talking to agents, other investors, and investing their hard earned dollars (sometimes making tragic mistakes) etc to gain their experience. While many are willing to lend a helping hand, they may not wish to do all the due dilligence for you. IMHO you have to DO something yourself first.

Just my opinion.
 
In all honesty, the reason you have not received much response is because most investors have spent many years and countless hours researching, talking to agents, other investors, and investing their hard earned dollars (sometimes making tragic mistakes) etc to gain their experience. While many are willing to lend a helping hand, they may not wish to do all the due dilligence for you. IMHO you have to DO something yourself first.

Just my opinion.



Of Course, Skater, I am the one who is going to benefit from my investments and not others and so, why should they do the due diligence on my behalf ?

AND this is not what I am expecting either, I am more than willing and ready to do all the hard work myself, and I have spent many hours on my computer, telephone as well as on the roads (both in Sydney and other parts of Australia) for this purpose.

All my earlier investment purchases have been outside Sydney, so I am trying to learn more about the Sydney market.

As I explained in first post, I have done some work and I feel lost, so this is the reason I asked for other's opinion, so that I may get some good advice/ideas and than I should pursue those ideas/advice by spending more hours on the internet/phone/car or whatever it takes.....I think this can be a good way to proceed on my learning journey. I just want to learn from others and imbibe the good things which come on the way.

BUT of course not, I don't want others to do the due diligence on my behalf, I just seek some help/guidance/direction so that I should not astray from the right track.

Another thing, by getting others' opinion, I can improve upon my existing beliefs and thus keep the emotional thoughts/temptations at bay.

I think it is all about learning and I think this is the purpose of this great forum and that's why we are all here.

Thanks for the input.

anisavvu
 
If you don't have the knowledge or convidence the simple fix is pay the 5-6k and get a buyers agent working for you...there are heaps around the first three that come to mind would be propertunity,nathan,jacque....all seemed to have great knowledge of the area your looking at and will help you with you research...

Especially if your looking for a development site the above would be a good start, just an idea but what about 3 300-350k properties with granny flats all +cf instead of the development site alot less work.
 
Hi, I wish to buy one or more investment properties in Western Sydney area. When I say western Sydney, I mean the areas from Parramatta onwards upto Penrith (if I follow the railway line), and all the sorrounding suburbs in this region. Apart from this I am also including areas around Quakers hills etc.

I am in a position to invest about 1.1 million (including loan amount) to buy properties. Even though I live in Sydney, my knowledge of this region is limited and I am a bit lost.

I am also inclined towards the idea of small development (like subdivision, townhouses/duplex construction) etc.

So, I request you (the experienced investors) to suggest me few ideas about what best can be done with about 1.1 mil in this region.

I am in a position to keep these investment properties for long term.

Please suggest me the suburbs presenting the best prospects in the scenario discussed above.

I will be grateful for all your suggestions.
firstly, I think the question posted is fairly generic, "any ideas about western sydney".... and hence you are getting frustrated with the lack of advise from fellow members!
As you are aware western sydney (from parra to penrith) region has over 50 suburbs in the price range 175,000 (bidwill) to 3mil+ (bellavista - though its considered part of hills district). Whilst they represent different markets & demographics, one can certainly say that in the lower price ranges i.e. upto 500k market, western sydney has most definitely increased by 12-15% last year alone. houses that sold for 250-270K in 08-09 are now listed for 320-340K in the plumpton-oakhurst-quakers hill triangle.

Maybe this should not put you off though, as they still represent good long term value imho.
 
.... the simple fix is pay the 5-6k and get a buyers agent working for you...there are heaps around the first three that come to mind would be propertunity,nathan,jacque....all seemed to have great knowledge of the area your looking at and will help you with you research...

Why, thank-you whoever you are (behind the mask) :D
 
Hi Anisavvu,

OK, I'll give you my thoughts but they may not be what you are looking for...

I think the greater West of Sydney is not the best place to be investing right now. That area did well out of the FHB grant and saw nice price appreciation last year. I think the Sydney market is now transitioning from FHBers to upgraders and investors so the middle and upper property sectors will be the ones to benefit in 2010/11.

So, to that end I would be investing your $1.1M in the lower North Shore anywhere from Crows Nest to Chatswood. Alternatively try Cremorne, St Leonards, Neutral Bay or Mosman. If you want to step out a bit then come play in my sandpit on the Northern Beaches which is showing all the indications of parabolic growth this year. Its already up $50K odd over this time last year with more to come. My Mona Vale units now look like valuing at $1M each which is a significant increase on the initial $850K valuation when I first started my development planning in 2006.

If you persist in looking in Western Sydney then go for quality. Stick close to Parramatta and chase the train line or even Parramatta Rd which is set for a major upgrade. Read up on urban planning and what is planned for this area and buy to benefit from it. I think I've read good things about Granville but can't remember where or why. Schools, hospitals, shopping districts, urban renewal, transport corridors, these terms need to become your daily vernacular.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Cheers,
Michael
 
The West is a big place :D
And.... everyone has different ideas. Personally, I stick to established areas with good infrastructure and transport in place (I prefer rail) where both tenants and owners want to live. Nothing like a lot of owners prettying up their places to improve the value of an area. Every investor has different needs as well and varying suburbs are going to suit rather than others.

Michael :)

I have to disagree with you on potential cg. Indeed, if you look at the past growth figures for many suburbs of Sydney it simply doesn't support the old outdated argument that the areas closer in benefit from any superior growth to those further out. Sure, I know you like the northern beaches (and for obvious reasons seeing you have a lovely dvpt there :D) but this current growth period very much reminds me of the activity in the Sydney market back in 2002- insufficient stock, healthy yields, high demand vs supply, investors back in the market (in droves!) - it's most definitely a rising market.
Parra and Blacktown LGAs have benefited from last years growth with the FHB's but it's not over yet- not from what I'm seeing anyway. The conditions are still ripe for increasing growth and I do believe there's a way to go yet before the market cools down for a while. Even I've been surprised by the amount of activity out there in the market- and I'm looking at a lot of Sydney right now for clients- North Shore, Northern Districts (Epping/Ryde) Parra and Blacktown regions. Affordability is also crucial and it's the lack of this that's keeping the lower end of the market so buoyant.
 
Does anyone know why the suburb "Colyton" is so special? I witnessed an auction where comparatively 2 similar properties got sold for very different prices. One of them was in North St Mary and the other in Colyton. North St Marys got sold for about 240k whereas colyton sold for approx 300K, they both had 3 BR homes and same/similar sized land. You can also see this if you were to make a quick comparison in prices on domain.com.au
 
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Because Colyton is awesome :)

As for Western Sydney! Im jumping on the band wagon.


With the M7 having been established for a few years now we are starting to see businesses take advantage and move premises out West.


Parramatta is taking great strides and being the 6th largest CBD in AUS, it has over 90,000 workers on a daily basis (talks of this increasing by another 30,000 over the next 5 years) This talks masses for the Western area.
GDP growth for Parramatta region is somewhere in excess of 3%, it is one of the strongest non-resource economies in the nation.


With the majority of people in Sydney living in the West & South Western corridors, investors need to make the most of the affordability of these areas and the infrastructure and the potential of Satellite CBD's.
 
Colyton

Hiya

North St Marys has got quite a few housing comm areas; Colyton (and what locals call South St marys) is the "nicer" part...speak to the real estate agents (esp. the property managers) and you will get the full story of rentals.

cheers
 
I have to disagree with you on potential cg. Indeed, if you look at the past growth figures for many suburbs of Sydney it simply doesn't support the old outdated argument that the areas closer in benefit from any superior growth to those further out.
Jacque, My timeline was very specific. I consider the middle to upper demographic areas will outperform in 2010/11 because these were hardest hit through the GFC. Take Palm Beach for example which has already done 35% in the last year. The median there is well into the millions so 35% is no small change. If you can pick up a good Northern Beaches house now for under $1.1M you could conceivably double your money in the next two years. The Northern Beaches overall is still just waking up having only done 6.3% last year to a median of $935K. I don't think those humble numbers will stay around for long. The Lower North Shore lead the way and did 22% odd last year, the ripple effect will carry this to the beaches:

Affluent suburbs lead new rise in house prices

Beyond that it will likely become a more balanced market again where yield will become all important and the West will stack up very favourably. I just think the coming couple of years are going to see some serious CG catch-up in Sydney's affluent suburbs.

Parramatta is taking great strides and being the 6th largest CBD in AUS, it has over 90,000 workers on a daily basis (talks of this increasing by another 30,000 over the next 5 years) This talks masses for the Western area.
GDP growth for Parramatta region is somewhere in excess of 3%, it is one of the strongest non-resource economies in the nation.
Stu, Great points! I'm actually sold on Parramatta and surrounds and have already suggested to Kay that we should pull out some of our equity in Mona Vale when complete and go shopping in this area for another development site or three. I read a lot of good things about greater Parramatta.

Cheers,
Michael
 
Hi, I wish to buy one or more investment properties in Western Sydney area. When I say western Sydney, I mean the areas from Parramatta onwards upto Penrith (if I follow the railway line), and all the sorrounding suburbs in this region. Apart from this I am also including areas around Quakers hills etc.

I am in a position to invest about 1.1 million (including loan amount) to buy properties. Even though I live in Sydney, my knowledge of this region is limited and I am a bit lost.

I am also inclined towards the idea of small development (like subdivision, townhouses/duplex construction) etc.

So, I request you (the experienced investors) to suggest me few ideas about what best can be done with about 1.1 mil in this region.

I am in a position to keep these investment properties for long term.

Please suggest me the suburbs presenting the best prospects in the scenario discussed above.

I will be grateful for all your suggestions.

anisavu, you are asking which part of the cake will rise first. One part will certainly rise before the other but eventually the whole damn thing will go. (Unless it's me cooking!:p)

It's Parramatta, it's Blacktown, it's Quakers Hill, it's Kellyville, It's Crows Nest, it's Nortern beaches.

With that sort of cash you can choose the better areas without the Housing Commission.
 
Jacque, My timeline was very specific. I consider the middle to upper demographic areas will outperform in 2010/11 because these were hardest hit through the GFC. Take Palm Beach for example which has already done 35% in the last year. The median there is well into the millions so 35% is no small change. If you can pick up a good Northern Beaches house now for under $1.1M you could conceivably double your money in the next two years. The Northern Beaches overall is still just waking up having only done 6.3% last year to a median of $935K. I don't think those humble numbers will stay around for long. The Lower North Shore lead the way and did 22% odd last year, the ripple effect will carry this to the beaches:

Affluent suburbs lead new rise in house prices

Beyond that it will likely become a more balanced market again where yield will become all important and the West will stack up very favourably. I just think the coming couple of years are going to see some serious CG catch-up in Sydney's affluent suburbs.

Stu, Great points! I'm actually sold on Parramatta and surrounds and have already suggested to Kay that we should pull out some of our equity in Mona Vale when complete and go shopping in this area for another development site or three. I read a lot of good things about greater Parramatta.

Cheers,
Michael

Im thinking of buying a ppor in that price range please tell me the suburbs you feel have the most value to them...
 
Im thinking of buying a ppor in that price range please tell me the suburbs you feel have the most value to them...
I think Peter Koulizos from the Property School called North Narrabeen as the most under-valued suburb on the Northern Beaches for free standing houses. I'll try and find a link. Big disclaimer though, I already hold an IP there so that might be just affirmation bias on my part in my selective reading.

OK, found the link in an old Somersoft post of mine but its invalid now. This post is from May 2008 so a bit outdated now. Doesn't time fly!

North Narrabeen Somersoft post

Personally, I'd say the following are great buying at present:

North Narrabeen
Collaroy Plateau
Avalan
Newport

Look for a suburb sort of in the middle of the beaches strip. Prices seem to be extreme to the North at Palm Beach and to the South at Manly. Smack bang in the middle is North Narrabeen where the Wakehurst Parkway joins Pittwater Rd. You can still buy a free standing house in Nth Narra for under $700K which is just ludicrous. But it doesn't come without some problems. There's an RSL in Nareen Parade and you can get some rowdy night life around there. Also beware the ocean level rise implications. I think Narrabeen is constantly being reported as one of the most at risk areas if oceans really do rise 1m. All of Narrabeen valley is flood prone, though its never flooded once in the 5yrs I used to live there.

Of course, you can step back from the beach strip and still buy well too. Forestville, Frenchs Forest and those sorts of areas have all done well recently.

A big draw back for the beaches is the lack of public transport infrastructure. Its a long slow ride on the L90 bus to the CBD from anywhere further North than Narrabeen. Its called the L90 as its a lazy 90 minute journey each way.

If you want to talk more about the beaches lets take it to that thread linked above as its off topic here.

Cheers,
Michael
 
Does anyone know why the suburb "Colyton" is so special? I witnessed an auction where comparatively 2 similar properties got sold for very different prices. One of them was in North St Mary and the other in Colyton. North St Marys got sold for about 240k whereas colyton sold for approx 300K, they both had 3 BR homes and same/similar sized land. You can also see this if you were to make a quick comparison in prices on domain.com.au

North St Marys has a fair share of light industrial whereas Colyton is just about pure residential.
 
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