What did you learn from Cashflow 101

A colleague and fellow forumite has, to my shame, not played a game of Cashflow 101.

He has asked me what I could learn from the game.

My immediate answer was that I would not be on this journey without having played- because, although I had gone to courses and tried to explain to my partner what I was trying to achieve, it was only after having played the game (and having won against the best in the business- Nivia ("The Wife") ) that she started to understand what I had been trying to explain.

I have other answers about what I have found valuable about the game, but I would like input from other forumites.
 
Hi Geoff: I found the following good values were taught in the game:

1. Aim of increasing passive income to exceed job income to allow financial independence
2. Making financial balance sheets
3. Use of debt to increase wealth (but IMHO not enough attention given to over-committing)
4. Worthlessness of 'doodads'

BUT one thing I thought was very poor was how children were regarded as liabilities in the game. This may have more to do with RK's biases than with the facts.

I would argue that a financially-uneducated spouse would be a far bigger liability than kids. However a financially-educated spouse could be a huge asset (as is probably the case for RK).

From a wealth point of view, a unified DINK couple is stronger than a single person. Adding kids might weaken it, but even so average wealth of families is higher than for single people with no kids.

This is confirmed in the 'Millionaire Next Door' which shows that the greater proportion of millionaires were couples with 2 or 3 kids. Few were single or DINK. Also Australian data shows that single people living in rental housing comprise the least wealthy of households.

So if I was redesigning the game, I would make the child square a 'financially-uneducated spouse' square, with subsequent landings being divorces/remarriages and payment of alimony.

Regards, Peter
 
Hi,
Guess I would like to add my two bits to this. Having asked the same question in the past, any little bit of information to those seeking is always good! :)

Having a little basic financial education about balance sheets and good vs bad debts, can't say that the game actually did help all that much in that respect. Not saying I am great at the stuff, but had a basic understanding of good vs bad debts, balance sheets, etc from work and basic reading before playing the game.

What was more interesting for me was the basic understanding of my personal biases with regards to investment and how to go abouts achieving it. Always had the idea that you needed money to make money. However, playing the various professions in the game showed that that was not always the case. If you are careful about what you do and have some sort of plan and ability to weigh up deals, you can always get out of the rat race.

It also pointed out to myself that I tend to be a little risk averse and that was holding my progress along the FI pathway. Always worrying about failure was starting to inhibit my ability to make decisions, even though I had analyzed them to the max.

Finally, have to admit, the game is not neccessarily about cash flow alone. Some of the best deals I have had to advance my progress in the game hasn't been about cash flow, but more about capital gains. Some of the stock plays and real estate deals have given my progress a great boost once it provided that initial burst of capital. Granted you could define it as a form of cash flow, but really a one off injection of capital would probably be better defined as a capital gain than a regular cash flow contribution.

With regards to Spiderman, I agree with your statement that kids aren't neccessarily a liability and that Kiyosaki's bias is inherent to the game. However, at the same time, you can't deny that kids are a financial liability in the sense that in real life, they do consume funds and eat into the cashflow. Where they are an asset is in the emotional and family sense. But in a hard financial sense, the cost is there, with no real benefit financialy if you want to be totally mercenary about definitions.

Sam
 
Firstly I will state I have not played the game nor seen it.

I am of the opinion that the real benefit of this game is for people who won't read a book like RDPD or Richest Man of Babylon etc etc or for people who need to see the concepts in action even though its still theoretical.

I believe this game would be the only way I could get the concepts into the heads of some of my friends by bringing home the ramifications of their current life style. Some I believe would get it but rather "live for the now" (btw I think I do live for the now but just a different way)

I don't agree with all of that which was written in RDPD however if I hadn't have read it I would probably bumbling around wondering "what the ???"

Perhaps the benefit of the game for people that are motivated and understanding of such concepts is to keep the fire burning and remind one of the "real game". Its easy to get distracted and complacent. I know I'm guilty of looking at a new european car and thinking, why don't I just buy one and get rid of my hack.

I'm interested in playing the game just so I have experienced it and maybe I will learn from it.

At the moment I'm reading books like "Ordinary Millionaires" to keep me on track.
 
I liked the distinction between Big and Small deals.

For many in life it's a huge leap to even do the "Small Deal'. If they can do a couple of "Small Deals" then they feel that have done well..................and indeed they probably have............ :)

To be able to jump from "No Deals", to "Small Deals" to Big and multiple "Big Deals" is certainly a stretch for many and I would certainly put myself in that category.

Although it's only a game, it does give you that practice and regular reinforcement to 'stretch' yourself a bit more and that's probably not a bad thing in investment or life.


:)
 
I think the most important thing I learned was that it's easier to leave the rat race as a janitor, than a Lawyer. I think this makes a differrence in mindset.. You can't say, oh, I'm just a xxxxx I'll never make it...

Originally posted by Spiderman
BUT one thing I thought was very poor was how children were regarded as liabilities in the game. This may have more to do with RK's biases than with the facts.

I would argue that a financially-uneducated spouse would be a far bigger liability than kids. However a financially-educated spouse could be a huge asset (as is probably the case for RK).

Exceptional point.

Maybe you should have a 'Get Married' square, in the rat race area.

When you land on it you roll the dice, 1, or 2, and you get a financially illiterate and uninterested partner, and you have a 20% per month handicap.

Roll a 3 or 4, and you get a financially illiterate, but interested partner who's willing to listen. This gives you a 20% handicap for 5 paydays, then 10% handicap for 5 paydays, and neutral for 5 turns, then 10% +ve for the balance of the game.

Roll a 5 or 6, and you get a financially literate partner. This gives you a 20% +ve for the balance of the game.

That would be interesting.

asy :D
 
Does anyone hold regular (or irregular) cashflow game nights?

Curious to try it out, before forking out $300 for a game....

In Melbourne ??
 
We play every month here in Perth (though we tend to play 202 rather than 101, because with 101, it's actually pretty difficult to make a bad deal and go broke.) With 202, all deals CAN go sour - which keeps the game interesting.

I think that there are different aspects to the game that can help different people. For people with little financial literacy, it demonstrates in a practical way the difference between assets and liabilities and illustrates the damage that undisiplined spending and high consumer debt can be. It teaches good debt from bad debt.

For players that understand these concepts, the next challenge is keeping your numbers up to date on the game sheet. When I look at game sheets by successful people, and those that aren't so successful, the neatness and completeness of the gamesheets is quite obvious.

People not used to keeping accounts have crossed out numbers, and multiple sets of numbers all over the page, often getting confused, or they have failed to fill in a section (usually the mortgage).

For other people, playing 202 gives people a good feel for options, and illustrates that while leverage can be extremely high with shares, it is also very easy to loose your shirt by speculating (as a few people from Decembers game discovered :) ).

For players comfortable with all of the concepts of the games, it gives them good opportunites to try different strategies. Maybe try borrowing heavily, maybe try only doing capital gains deals, or only doing cashflow deals. Try paying debt off first, or not to worry about it.

I also find it's a good way to discover win-win deals. Often times a player turns up a deal that is too expensive for them, but they can still profit from the deal, by turning the deal over to another player.

It also instills co-operation in most players. Generally at our games people enjoy seeing people leave the rat-race regardless of everyone elses individual wealth. For me, anyone who makes it out of the rat-race wins the game.

Some people don't learn this concept, and seem to be obsessed with doing better than everyone else, or trying to stop other players from improving their own portfolio's, by either not passing on deals to others that can benefit from them, or if they are doing well, by buying all deals, just so others can't have them, regardless of the deal.

Most people however learn that having someone else do well, is not mutually exclusive to them doing well themselves.

I think there are two areas that the game could improve though. The first is getting finance. It's far too easy in the game. Advanced investors have a good understanding of their limits, but there should be borrowing limits for bank loans (linked to total net assets) for those that aren't so financially educated. In reality, banks have limits, and these should be taken into account.

The other areas is the properties. They don't really represent legislation very well. No capital gains tax is paid on sales, (and in Australia, this still needs to be paid with exchange deals.) Also the amount of tax should vary with income and investment borrowings.

Probably not something for first timers to worry about, but it certainly would be a far more educational game if these aspects were taken into account.
 
Originally posted by sbe
Does anyone hold regular (or irregular) cashflow game nights?

Curious to try it out, before forking out $300 for a game....

In Melbourne ??

I intend to hold regular ones in Canberra next year (PM me if interested)....101 or 202 depending on demand.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Originally posted by Spiderman
BUT one thing I thought was very poor was how children were regarded as liabilities in the game. This may have more to do with RK's biases than with the facts.
Sorry not to have picked up on this earlier.

I don't believe that this is any sort of value judgement on the value of having children- just a recognition that having children costs money- and that is something people often forget when they are having children. Sure, they buy the prams and baby clothes- but foget about the myriad of other expenses which will be involved.

The Cashflow game merely adds a figure to your expenses when you have children. I believe that's just a reflection of what happens in life.

Value is something quite different. I would not have been without my children for any amount of money in the world.

But there is a number in the expenses column.
 
Originally posted by geoffw
Sure, they buy the prams and baby clothes- but foget about the myriad of other expenses which will be involved.

Aaaah, if I had a dollar for every young mum-to-be who said, my mum will buy me a pram, and his mum is buying the car seat, so the baby won't cost me anything...

*groan*

asy :D
 
My learnings have been more meta-gaming focused....

it's a game - the complexity doesn't reflect life (or at least MY life)...


Within the game I've learnt:

There's no such things as turns.....try to do several deals while other people hold the dice, that way you magnify your effectiveness.

There's no such thing as a bad buy...provided you calculate the odds (how many share cards are left for that stock...what % have a higher price than the price on offer - ditto for property).

Big deals aren't always better - you can get out fast just on small deals & when on the margin (only just enough cash for a smaller big deal) & not many others are picking big deals it can be better to choose small deals that you are certain to be able to buy & make money on.

Having a negative cashflow is OK provided you have plenty of cash....it can be sustained for a few paydays in situations where you have a high probability of selling an asset for profit (even to another player).

Don't ignore your expenses....sometimes paying them down is the fastest way to get out of the rat race.

Always know your exact position & what you need to get out - I have seen people miss their exit opportunities because they had to borrow from the bank and were unwilling, or even sit in the rat race unaware they could leave it!

Sometimes staying in the rat race a little longer than you need to can boost your paycheque - this may not be legal in the rules...i'd have to re-read them :) however it's always possible to artificially stay in the rat race by taking out a bank loan for cash :)

Don't be scared to take calculated risks - it's only a game....and even in life it's very common to survive the seeming worst things thrown at you. For some people bankrupcy is the beginning not the end :)

Watch other peoples' play - you can learn a lot about others by the way they play - risk-adverse, risk-um-extremely tolerant, focus on family, etc....

Have fun!!! Don't get so focused on the game that the enjoyment goes out the window.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
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