What ever happened to inspired conversation ...

[Nullagine]

I agree.

Nulla & HG. For what it is worth this is a PROPERTY INVESTING FORUM, not a I HATE PROPERTY & ALL INVESTORS forum. If you think you can change the minds of die hard investors, then YOU HAVE GOT IT WRONG. If you don't like it here, then do everyone a favour (including yourselves) & GO AWAY.

I was just starting to like Yield, as he seemed to make some statements, then when proved that his statements were incorrect, admitted that maybe he had a little to learn. If you are here to learn, fine, but please saying the same thing time & time again is BORING.

I don't "hate property & all investors" - I just think that a little inspiration might lighten the step of "die hard investors" to the benefit of all involved.

Just the example houses in Bidwell we touched on; "craphole" would be most Sydneysiders view. Inspired remediation would either be bulldozing or beautification. What would be your inspired guess?

 

[skater]

I don't "hate property & all investors" - I just think that a little inspiration might lighten the step of "die hard investors" to the benefit of all involved.

Just the example houses in Bidwell we touched on; "craphole" would be most Sydneysiders view. Inspired remediation would either be bulldozing or beautification. What would be your inspired guess?

So.....you are too good to live in a basic 3 bed brick house with modern kitchen. Sure, it's not the Ritz. But it is fine as a starter. This is how many a successful person has started. I guess that won't be you.

 

[wylie]

Those houses in Bidwell are PALACES compared to my first place. Why don't you "convert the evil landlords" people just give up. Maybe do as the others say and start a political party yourselves and save the world. We are doing okay.

Wylie

 

[HiredGoon]

also, as pointed out time and again, it is oo's that are driving up prices. investors don't want to pay more to buy - we'd rather they stayed low - but oo's are prepared to do so because they become emotionally involved in the purchase. if you are going to "blame" then direct it where it is relevant.

If you have purchased a property, you have paid more than anyone else was willing to and thus drove up prices.

If it had sat unsold and then you bought it, you stopped it from having the price reduced to clear and thus kept prices from falling driving up the price.

If you had the 2nd highest bid at an auction, you caused an OO to have to drive up the market price.

Does it make you sleep better at night to think that investors aren't driving up prices?

If you think it has been pointed out time and time again, then I suggest you go to Wikipedia and edit their page on supply and demand, where it says something like an increase in the aggregate demand without a corresponding increase in supply causes the market price to rise and add in "except when the object is houses, and the increased demand comes from investors rather than owner occupiers"

You may also want to contact the economic text-book writers, who are still stuck in their primitive pre-Somersoft economic theories of supply & demand!

 

[BoatBoy]

You're a funny guy HG

Dave

 

[Nullagine]

So.....you are too good to live in a basic 3 bed brick house with modern kitchen. Sure, it's not the Ritz. But it is fine as a starter. This is how many a successful person has started. I guess that won't be you.

I already have a house thanks - I used to live in and like Sydney but it became too populated and nasty for me.

Bidwell appears to be an example of how a suburban development failed to inspire probably because it was developed without inspiration. I have been near there but not to soak up the atmosphere.

Bidwell is well located for workers in Paramatta and would tick many boxes for "starters" but bids for it have not gone well recently because it has become another SydneySide "craphole" at lease in the public's mind, I would think.

I suggest writing about inspired ways of turning what Sydneysiders dismiss as a "craphole" having no capital gain potential or other upside into inspiring "des-res-es". For some that might be bulldosing to put three McMansions on every block, others to find ways for owners to put in low maintenance gardens.

Does Bidwell inspire YOU in any way?

 

[Nullagine]

Those houses in Bidwell are PALACES compared to my first place. Why don't you "convert the evil landlords" people just give up. Maybe do as the others say and start a political party yourselves and save the world. We are doing okay.

Wylie

I think it might inspire you if you were to get out and about in different areas. Personally, it would be more inspiring to me to camp in the bush than live in Bidwell.

 

[HiredGoon]

Someone called a housing development "bidwell"? Is there a subliminal message in there?

Can't wait to see the new developments in Onlygoup Acres and the nice newbuild flats in Negativelygeared Gardens!

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

Wow, I just read through this thread and so much old material! Haven't we been through all this? I have a few opinions, and I'll add them here. If anyone wants to criticise them, great, I might even change my mind if you make a compelling argument...

1) House prices increase in fits and spurts. No single property moves exactly like the entire market. This is one of the reasons there is good $$ to be made in property.

2) True property investors (ie those with more than, say, 2 properties) make up only a very small proportion of the overall market. Emotional buyers of PPORs cause most of the sharp rises.

3) Regardless of background, individuals in Australia have to opportunity to make what they want of themselves. Education is important in this, and although financial literacy is not included, some people still figure it out for themselves.

4) The vast majority of people will always spend all they earn, try to have the best they can afford of everything, and will aspire to materialistic lifestyles. They'll also whinge about the cost of housing. And end up poor in retirement.

Am I an evil property investor preying on the weak? No, I am a guy who buys high quality property that rents for lots of money, paid for by highly educated people. They choose. If they want to live in my properties (which are extraordinarily well located - and priced accordingly), few of them will be able to save for a deposit for a similar property. Their choice.

No matter what we do in terms of rules, there will always be some people (a minority) who get ahead by working smart and seeing the bigger picture. There will also be lots of people who never get ahead (the majority), because they can't see past their next paycheck.

As an individual, I choose which group I belong in. In the longer term, members of the group I choose to be in will always get ahead, regardless of short term price fluctuations which may or may not occur.

 

[equitymate]

I think it might inspire you if you were to get out and about in different areas. Personally, it would be more inspiring to me to camp in the bush than live in Bidwell.

I think Bidwellites might find your comments offensive.

 

[Nullagine]

I think Bidwellites might find your comments offensive.

OK, I'll be more inclusive; I'd rather camp in the bush than live in what Sydney has become.

 

[Nullagine]

Am I an evil property investor preying on the weak? No, I am a guy who buys high quality property that rents for lots of money, paid for by highly educated people. They choose. If they want to live in my properties (which are extraordinarily well located - and priced accordingly), few of them will be able to save for a deposit for a similar property. Their choice.

No matter what we do in terms of rules, there will always be some people (a minority) who get ahead by working smart and seeing the bigger picture. There will also be lots of people who never get ahead (the majority), because they can't see past their next paycheck.

As an individual, I choose which group I belong in. In the longer term, members of the group I choose to be in will always get ahead, regardless of short term price fluctuations which may or may not occur.

I take that as "I'm inspired to offer fancier properties to rent"?

 

[Arkay]

If you have purchased a property, you have paid more than anyone else was willing to and thus drove up prices.

I really do hope that the moderators step in shortly and threaten to remove you from this forum if you express that point one more time.

You may also want to contact the economic text-book writers, who are still stuck in their primitive pre-Somersoft economic theories of supply & demand!

and you might just want to leave. You have offered everything you have to give to this forum.. Bye bye.

Cheers,

Arkay.

P.S. To the mods. I notice when you click on a users name in a thread it gives the option to add them to your buddy list. Would it be possible to add an option to add to your ignore list as well. Seems the function is a lot more necessary these days?

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

I invest where I see good returns. I also find less distasteful the concept of evicting qualified, employed people for not paying rent, than struggling working class families, should the need arise. To be brutally honest, I have no idea why anyone would pay the rent I demand, when they could buy something similar but not as convenient to the city for similar money. But hey, the longest vacancy I've ever had was only 2 weeks! And the rent covers interest AND principle payments!!

 

[BayView]

If you have purchased a property, you have paid more than anyone else was willing to and thus drove up prices.
HG; you are not counting for the fact that people buy houses because they need somewhere to live. So, there is a demand, and that is what controls price (as well as supply) for EVERY commodity in EVERY market since Adam was a boy.
You make it sound like it is a Ponzi Scheme. The last time I looked, there wasn't one bloke at the top with a lot of fools underneath.

If it had sat unsold and then you bought it, you stopped it from having the price reduced to clear and thus kept prices from falling driving up the price.
Not true; a lot of people put their house on the market, it doesn't sell, so they take it off the market until the market improves (demand). The price didn't drop, it stayed flat for a while longer than the Vendor wanted, and then guess what? - eventually it went up!!
For example; my mother has had her house for sale for about 18 months. $40k overpriced and I told her. She is VERY emotionally attached to it and won't drop the price. So, it has sat there unsold for ever, but the price hasn't dropped, and the rest of the area is slowly moving up to the price she wants. Again; supply/demand and the fact that people need to buy a house. But, they are not all stupid and buy anything at any price as your comments infer.

If you had the 2nd highest bid at an auction, you caused an OO to have to drive up the market price.
Investors are not normally the second last bidder; it's normally the dummy bidder (or in rare cases another O/O). Investors usually drop out when the numbers don't work. Investors, if anything, are responsible for trying to lower prices. I know I am.

Does it make you sleep better at night to think that investors aren't driving up prices?
Yes. But consider this; investors make up less than 25% of all property sales. So who is driving the price up?

If you think it has been pointed out time and time again, then I suggest you go to Wikipedia and edit their page on supply and demand, where it says something like an increase in the aggregate demand without a corresponding increase in supply causes the market price to rise and add in "except when the object is houses, and the increased demand comes from investors rather than owner occupiers"
See above response

You may also want to contact the economic text-book writers, who are still stuck in their primitive pre-Somersoft economic theories of supply & demand!
Supply is relative. If you are talking about prime, classic, limited supply inner-city properties, then there is never enough supply, so that's why those properties consistently go up in value. But if you talk about the dime-a-dozen Jennings blocks out at Far West Black Stump Meadows, then there is lots of supply; prices are slower to go up.
I know a guy who lives in an absolute dump in the Hollywood hills. I wouldn't live in it. It's worth about $2 mill. Why?; because everyone wants to live next to Leonardo, or Jody Foster or Dr. Phil, and there are not a lot of houses for sale around there.

As I said, and others have; MOVE ON. How about starting a new topic, like; who will win the Grand Final?
Now that my beloved Pies are out, I must say; GO CATS!!

 

[BayView]

I invest where I see good returns. I also find less distasteful the concept of evicting qualified, employed people for not paying rent, than struggling working class families, should the need arise. To be brutally honest, I have no idea why anyone would pay the rent I demand, when they could buy something similar but not as convenient to the city for similar money. But hey, the longest vacancy I've ever had was only 2 weeks! And the rent covers interest AND principle payments!!

Further to that V8, a tenant never got evicted for doing the RIGHT thing.
They only get evicted for violating their Tenancy Agreement.

 

[BayView]

It seems to me that you can't possibly win with Yield, HG and others like them.

Maybe they are all the same person?

I mean; they hate us investors and all these other nasty, greedy and stupid O/O people who drive the price up and make it so they can't justify buying our over-priced properties, but yet they live in a house and pay rent, giving us investors incentive to keep on doing what we do.

WWWWWHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTT TTTTHHHHHHEEEEE????????

Can we all pitch in and buy them/him/her a very nice tent, rent some land for them/him/her to pitch it on, but about 2,000 miles from electricity and transport?

 

[skater]

Does Bidwell inspire YOU in any way?

You know, I find all your negative comments offensive. As I have posted several times now, I live in a suburb not too far away from Bidwell. AND for what it's worth YES it does inspire me to live there. The reasons are many & the main one is that I can afford my VERY EXPENSIVE sporting activities by NOT spending a kings ransom on a PPOR. I would bet that I probably spend a similar amount to your yearly income on my families sport. I challenge you to be able to do this in the future for your own family.

It is an area that is changing for the better all the time. Where a first home owner can get a foot in the door, where you can add value easily & where there WILL be significant CG when Sydney goes through it's next cycle. It is also an area where rental yeild is growing rapidly. I also hold investments in this area.

Obviously you are much better than the likes of us mere investors & you deserve to live in a McMansion with all the modern DooDads. Well good on you. You go & spend all your income & when you are old & grey & living on the pension, in a rented property & you can't afford to go on a holiday, don't bother telling us how hard you have it, because the truth is that you have created it yourself.

 

[jingo]

Everybody misses the point. See my response to Andrew - it is about using a rising first home value as funding for your next house - that is the bit that doesn't work long term..

It's working well for me, and others here as well!

Regarding your advice I am probably the wrong target. I actually make a lot of money and have a large deposit so could buy whenever I thought it a good time to do so. I just consider now a very bad time.

Your point being?? Many people here make a lot of money and still consider property to be a viable investment vehicle. In your opinion now is a bad time. But if you look around carefully, you will find value. (Read Harris' posts).

Regards Jason.

 

[yieldmatters]

I mean; they hate us investors and all these other nasty, greedy and stupid O/O people who drive the price up and make it so they can't justify buying our over-priced properties, but yet they live in a house and pay rent, giving us investors incentive to keep on doing what we do.

that's a bit rough - I don't hate anybody.

The rent is hardly an attractive incentive - if it was attractive I would buy an investment property!

If you get time (maybe on another thread) I'd like to hear about California realestate - I'm reading a lot but it would be something else to be actually living there at the moment.