Where our budget goes and where we should be spending our money

[DavidMc]

OK, so it looks like I missed out on all the fun at the end of the 'drug testing for welfare' thread. Obviously it ran off topic and turned into a political debate.

I read Dazz's surplus/deficit post and went to give him kudos for it but then noticed he was banned.

I fully agree with prudent financial management and getting the budget back to surplus. We all know what happened to countries like Argentina, the US, et al with all that debt - I don't think we'd have any argument there.

Here is were we spend it all - http://www.abc.net.au/news/interact...ending/breakdown/2017/general-public-services

Our points of contention are *where* we spend all our money, a topic which deserves a whole new thread. What are the core principles behind the decisions?

Some of my thoughts:

• The profits big banks and miners make are excessive. Our financial system favours large corporates and large investors and the balance is out.
• Apple, Google, et al should pay at least the same rate of tax as small to medium businesses on money earned from Australians.
• Large corporations should not be able to control our government - all political donations should be disclosed on a clear and easy to read website. The government should make decisions in the best interest of the people, not the elite.
• The elite / business owners do create job opportunities for the common people, and we should attract them to our country with a great quality of life and a happy, low crime society, rather than low taxes.
• Government efficiency should be measured (revenue in vs revenue out at all levels, ROI on projects, average days required to provide services) - also presented on a clear and easy to read website.
• The end of fear based political campaigns.
• The end of big corporations manipulating public opinion through our monopolistic media.

We're a smart bunch here, what are some budget saving ideas for our country?

 

[MarkB]

Imho...

As a nation we need to be investing (you say spend, I say invest) our money into industries that have the potential to provide stable long term employment opportunities - and in particular those that have export potential.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be discussing how better to split the pie.

But, I think there needs to be more effort put into growing the pie.

 

[nhg]

As long as the pie leaves a minimal carbon footprint. Grow it as big as you like.

eg http://www.theguardian.com/environm...inery-pumped-nitrogen-great-barrier-reef-park

 

[LibGS]

Some of my thoughts:

• The elite / business owners do create job opportunities for the common people, and we should attract them to our country with a great quality of life and a happy, low crime society, rather than low taxes.

Jobs are a side effect, a happy accident if you will. Large corporations are there to make profits. Lets conduct a little thought experiment. If a large corp could increase profits by 30% by cutting jobs by 40% would they? Of course. Jobs do not come into it. But you are 100% correct, the "livability" of a city is more important than lower taxes for attracting investment. Various studies have been conducted that show this.

Do we need large companies? Yes and as you say, we need to tweek laws to make them more socially accountable.

An intersting quote from The Age. http://www.theage.com.au/comment/australia-post-lets-keep-letter-delivery--and-posties-20140611-zs3sk.html

"There are two, and only two, reasons to have government. One is to regulate. The other is to provide services that are necessary but (if done properly) unprofitable."

Efficiency does matter, but how do you measure the efficiency of educating a child? Not that hard actually. But what about a troubled child that is in great danger of dropping out of school? What is the value of that child completing Year 12 compared to the cost? Not everything that is good in the world can be measured.

You should also consider Debt vs Deficit. Not all debt is bad. The budget should be split into 2 parts. 1 to show the costs/profit/interest incurred on projects that will make us money in the future (capital expenditure), eg, roads, raid, airports, etc. The other part should show the costs involved with the day to day running of the country. This government deliberately keeps mixing the 2 up to paint a picture of the out of control massive debt.

You are on a forum where debt is king. People on here have productive debts which they use to make profitable cash flow positive assets in the long term. If debt was really that bad, Somersoft would not exist.

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

Efficiency does matter, but how do you measure the efficiency of educating a child? Not that hard actually. But what about a troubled child that is in great danger of dropping out of school? What is the value of that child completing Year 12 compared to the cost? Not everything that is good in the world can be measured.

This is one of those interest topics that inevitably attracts a range of opinion.

Personally, if a kid hates school and is no good at it, let them drop out. It just makes it all the harder for the kids that do want to be there. Far better to provide programs to pick these people up and push them into vocational training.

 

[BayView]

You should also consider Debt vs Deficit. Not all debt is bad. The budget should be split into 2 parts. 1 to show the costs/profit/interest incurred on projects that will make us money in the future (capital expenditure), eg, roads, rail, airports, etc. The other part should show the costs involved with the day to day running of the country. This government deliberately keeps mixing the 2 up to paint a picture of the out of control massive debt.

What amazes me is how none of the plethora of financial commentators/journalists ever seem to bring this up either.

And; if the Opposition Party (Libs or Labs) is hell-bent on pointing out the Encumbent's debt levels to make them look bad, why then don't the Encumbents make a point of distinguishing the two to the Public so they can make themselves look good.

That's what I'd be doing.

As long as the pie leaves a minimal carbon footprint. Grow it as big as you like.

In this modern world we have developed, it will be very hard to do that with most of the things we want to implement.

 

[Crabnet]

We're a smart bunch here, what are some budget saving ideas for our country?

The bigger problem for Australia is the decades of current account deficits where we as a country have racked up debt from consuming more from overseas than we make from overseas

IMHO if we don't start value adding more in this country we will be forever price takers rather than price makers.
Relying on banks to borrow from overseas, foreigners buying our bonds. Selling our assets and businesses to overseas holders to balance the books.
Easier said than done of course.

 

[DavidMc]

The bigger problem for Australia is the decades of current account deficits where we as a country have racked up debt from consuming more from overseas than we make from overseas

I hope everybody is buying their Dick Smith's peanut butter!

It amazes me how many people just buy the Kraft stuff, South American peanuts vs Queensland peanuts.