Where's the crash

Hi Audas,

I have followed this thread. I found you have rejected few calls to tell us your investment positions?

Why?

Let me have a guess?

1. You are well educated - might have a Master or Doctor degrees in economy/finance related area. Probably very tanented in what you are taught.

2. You have missed the ride in the past years in either share market or property market because of your "fear" theory.

3. By accident, you found this forum and wanted to have your influence ---- unfortunately, your voice will be dead soon.

4. You realy lack practical experience -- you read everything possibel but not put into practice. If I were an employer, i would not like to employ you because you are too addicted to what you were taught and refused to see from street view.
 
Hi guys,

Back to the thread topic: Where's the crash?

Well I can't help with that one but I can point to where most are anticipating the next boom will be:

Sydney house prices tipped to rise in early 2010

SMH said:
Sydney house prices are tipped to rise early next year, a half-yearly survey of property industry sentiment shows.

The Australian Property Institute survey found Sydney's residential sector will be first to emerge from the downturn, but Melbourne and Brisbane will have to wait until at least the second half of the year for things to improve.

The Australian Property Directions Survey questioned 29 professional corporate members and found commercial, industrial and retail property was at least 12 months away from showing any signs of improvement.

Upswings are forecast across the board in 2011.

So it looks like we've still got 12 months to build our portfolios at currently depressed prices and really low interest rates before the market is going to start its next leg up. Everything I read suggests Sydney is going to lead this next one out. Sounds good to me... ;)

Even Metropole are now publishing stuff in alignment with this point of view and Michael Yardney is a die hard Melbourne man. Michael, if you're aout there, I'd welcome your thoughts on the property cycle and Sydney's prospects.:D

Why Sydney is set for take-off

Nila Sweeney said:
The languishing Sydney market has been the subject of intense speculations of late amid signs that things might be heading for a turn around.

“There is definitely a pent up optimism as people wait for that recovery to happen,” says Gareth Woodham, state manager with WPB Property Group. “I suspect if there’s a sniff for that occurring, we will see a lot of speculations because it’s been so long since the last upturn.”

The last time property values surged to its peak was around March 2004. After that it was a slow decline to a low point of $516,000 in March quarter 2006. In January this year, Sydney climbed to another high, albeit briefly at 7.5% growth per annum.

Cheers,
Michael
 
Where's the crash?
how long does a crash take?

RESI

Meanwhile, try Perth from Dec07 to 08,

65% of its burbs had negative nominal house price growth

6 burbs >20% (Piesse Brook, Champion Lakes, Crawley, Harrisdale, Cardup, Byford)

LMAO, You obviously don't have a clue about the suburbs above.

Crawley is a blue chip suburb with properties selling between $350K for 1br no views units to to $2M+ for apartments with river views. When you only have 4 properties sold during the whole year it only takes 1-2 properties to throw off the median prices by 50%

As for the rest of your suburbs you mentioned they are located on Perth's outskirts where most of the properties were lifestyle acreage properties. That was before the developers moved in and began selling H&L packages on 300-700sqm blocks lowering the median prices in the area. You could hardly expect a basic 3br on a 250sqm block ( as sold by Niche) to be selling for the same price as the next door 400sqm home on a 2 acres block. :rolleyes:

I could understand if some delusional bear on the other side of the planet could be fooled into thinking prices crashed by up to 50% but you ? I really expected more form you WW and am surprised that you've posted that garbage here, or did you think that no one from Perth would read it and you could get away with it ? :D
 
Hi guys,

Back to the thread topic: Where's the crash?

Well I can't help with that one but I can point to where most are anticipating the next boom will be:

Sydney house prices tipped to rise in early 2010



l

what a pointless news worthy story.....look who is promoting it!

of course they are going to say that.

what was the number of people in the survey?? 20 ??

laughable propaganda by those that have a vested interest.

be terrific if we all had a crystal ball like these clowns..

good luck if you want to follow this bunch of hypocrites....
 
MichaelW's and Chilliaa posts are spot on.

It is all about Supply and Demand.

I suggest those wishing to analyse figures look at demand for housing and future builds. Sydney is well in the red.

And those who argue kids will move in with mum etc.. yes, I agree. That is why 2 bed units in the Inner City rent for $600 per week. 4 to 6 students at $150 - $100 a week each.

No-one is building low end units like in 2002 to supply the lower end. Existing stuff tightly held. Approvals for new works takes years so turnaround willbe very slow. In inner Sydney FHO expect to pay $400 to $600k to get in.

Peter
 
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Hi Audas,

I have followed this thread. I found you have rejected few calls to tell us your investment positions?

Why?

Let me have a guess?

1. You are well educated - might have a Master or Doctor degrees in economy/finance related area. Probably very tanented in what you are taught.

2. You have missed the ride in the past years in either share market or property market because of your "fear" theory.

3. By accident, you found this forum and wanted to have your influence ---- unfortunately, your voice will be dead soon.

4. You realy lack practical experience -- you read everything possibel but not put into practice. If I were an employer, i would not like to employ you because you are too addicted to what you were taught and refused to see from street view.

Yeah nice - Yes I do have many degrees across multiple fields, my masters is not in finance, although one of my undergraduates was in economics (not commerce).

Family run portfolio extends to 15 acres of approved subdivision property in Australia's première coastal resort, 30 house / apartment urban development in central capital city, pubs, residential property.

Self educated in IT (in between degrees and work have learnt a dozen programming languages, including Chinese) running businesses developing software delivering applications to global pharmaceuticals and marketing companies from schering-plough to Wundermans).

I have been concentrating my work In the UK for the last 4 years where I have gained a much clearer understanding of International implications of market activities on domestic economies - hence my genuine concern for Australians inability to comprehend the intrinsic nature of global markets as an influential factor at home.

I genuinely have no interest in DOOMING people out - I am simply pointing out that external markets hav serious ramifications for Australia, that this downturn is like nothing we ahve ever seen, that there are considerations beyond domestic demand and supply. Pretty basic, honest stuff.

I have absolutely NO DOUBT that those attacking me on thsi forum are doing so as they see negativity as bad for business, as their remarks have almost nothing to do with any consideration for global markets.

The IMF has just issued a devastating body blow to world markets, placing a $6 trillion dollar write down on underlying assets - The Rudd government has gone into over drive pronouncing recession and further stimulus required. The UK has announced a 50% tax bracket. HSBC has announced a second rights issue. The IMF has stated clearly that Eastern European and emerging market pose a considerable threat - these economies were clawing their way out of poverty through western debt - this is going to have to be basically written off -

You will see more US banks closing when the Stress tests are announced (or bailouts extended - some for a third time).

Rudd made it clear, Australian revenues would be down to their lowest levels since the second world war.

But YAAAAAAH the Australian real estate institute said Sydney is going to have a bounce back....two years from now, no chance there could be further falls before then is there.....

Look I don't want to get sarcastic, I don't want anyone losing money or being scared out of the market - my point is that we are heading into further disarray, the economy has no where near finished imploding so just be careful. Don't take this personally, its just the truth.

If you wanted some serious doom and gloom wait till I tell you about the derivatives market, ($563 trillion) or the commercial real estate collapse.....now that is doomy gloomy. But no need to get into this for 6 months - hard enough convincing you people there is global contraction going on.

Negotiated Coal prices were reduced by %60 - you can rack ships up from here to Beijing, its the price that matters.
 
Dear Audus

It looks like you have earnt your right to comment. Touche!;)

Please dont go. We need opposite views. You have just had the bad luck to come in on after some serious D&G posters with little substance who have coloured opinon to negative feedback as a result.

Regards

Peter 14.7
 
Howdy audas.

I agree with a lot of your thoughts unfortunately, but to a much lesser degree. I'm not expecting the level of carnage you are. I'm expecting property to be flat for years, and I'm thinking shares have already priced in the bad times.


Sounds like you have a valuable portfolio there? So why haven't you sold everything, if things are going to turn to crap?


See ya's.




ps. It will be hard I know, buy it would be good if you could hang around here. You will get bombarded by permabulls relentlessly though. But this forum needs some balance.
 
Hi Audas

Welcome to the forum.

Can I ask you what you think will happen to Australian property markets if credit markets stay frozen and we can't build enough new homes as a result?

Cheers

Shane
 
Negotiated Coal prices were reduced by %60 - you can rack ships up from here to Beijing, its the price that matters.

I was under the impression that they were still making money when coal was at $20/tonne not that many years ago.

And I ask the same question as others here. If we are all doomed, and you knew all, why haven't you sold everything at the top to "A greater Fool"?

Dave
 
Hi Audas,

Thank-you for your comments, no doom and gloom just the reality of the global situation and how Australia can and will be effected by the GFC.

Can we clarify what the consensus is of the definition of a property crash, a bit like what is a recession.

1) Property drops up 10% in a year
2) Property drops b/w 10 & 20% in a year
3) Property drops > 20% in a year
4) Property drops 5% p.a for several years

My thoughts are any of 2,3,4 would be deemed a property crash what are yours.

Cheers

Benjamin
 
Yeah nice - Yes I do have many degrees across multiple fields, my masters is not in finance, although one of my undergraduates was in economics (not commerce).

Family run portfolio extends to 15 acres of approved subdivision property in Australia's première coastal resort, 30 house / apartment urban development in central capital city, pubs, residential property.

Self educated in IT (in between degrees and work have learnt a dozen programming languages, including Chinese) running businesses developing software delivering applications to global pharmaceuticals and marketing companies from schering-plough to Wundermans).

I have been concentrating my work In the UK for the last 4 years where I have gained a much clearer understanding of International implications of market activities on domestic economies - hence my genuine concern for Australians inability to comprehend the intrinsic nature of global markets as an influential factor at home.

I genuinely have no interest in DOOMING people out - I am simply pointing out that external markets hav serious ramifications for Australia, that this downturn is like nothing we ahve ever seen, that there are considerations beyond domestic demand and supply. Pretty basic, honest stuff.

I have absolutely NO DOUBT that those attacking me on thsi forum are doing so as they see negativity as bad for business, as their remarks have almost nothing to do with any consideration for global markets.

The IMF has just issued a devastating body blow to world markets, placing a $6 trillion dollar write down on underlying assets - The Rudd government has gone into over drive pronouncing recession and further stimulus required. The UK has announced a 50% tax bracket. HSBC has announced a second rights issue. The IMF has stated clearly that Eastern European and emerging market pose a considerable threat - these economies were clawing their way out of poverty through western debt - this is going to have to be basically written off -

You will see more US banks closing when the Stress tests are announced (or bailouts extended - some for a third time).

Rudd made it clear, Australian revenues would be down to their lowest levels since the second world war.

But YAAAAAAH the Australian real estate institute said Sydney is going to have a bounce back....two years from now, no chance there could be further falls before then is there.....

Look I don't want to get sarcastic, I don't want anyone losing money or being scared out of the market - my point is that we are heading into further disarray, the economy has no where near finished imploding so just be careful. Don't take this personally, its just the truth.
So if you and the family are at those levels in high end costal property development,Pubs,ect and if it all goes the way are foolishly predicting then what is your exit plan :rolleyes:because by the sounds of things
the areas of investing in which you invest will be the ones hit the hardest in the short-term,what i can never understand about people that come into this site,with high end wealth,that they never have an exit plan and retire depressed..willair..
 
I can only go on whats happened to me 'personally'

I've not seen any sign of a 'correction' or 'drop' in value across any of my portfolio.

In fact, my holdings have risen by around 7% from the beginning of the year and are looking to continue.

The only thing I'm slightly worried about is the lack of credit right now but will have to wait n see where that leads.

Crystal ball anyone?
 
US HOUSING:

Home Prices Gain 0.7% in February From January - U.S. home prices rose 0.7 percent in February from January, the first consecutive monthly gain in two years, a sign that low interest rates may be moderating declines in real estate values. Prices fell 6.5 percent in February from a year earlier, the second-smallest drop in six months, led by a 19 percent decrease in the region that includes California, the most populous U.S. state, the Federal Housing Finance Agency in Washington said today. The gain in February from a month earlier beat the average estimate of 10 analysts in a Bloomberg survey for a decline of 0.7 percent.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=aVZpVck4T870&refer=home

I think we are within 4 months of seeing the bottom of US Housing. Housing bottoms, credit markets will rapidly improve, consumer confidence in the US will rapidly improve, and a base will be formed for the next upcycle.

This is why i have been paying so much attention to forward looking indicators, rather than historical economic data.
 
US HOUSING:
U.S. home prices rose 0.7 percent in February from January, the first consecutive monthly gain in two years, a sign that low interest rates may be moderating declines in real estate values.

I think we are within 4 months of seeing the bottom of US Housing. Housing bottoms, credit markets will rapidly improve, consumer confidence in the US will rapidly improve, and a base will be formed for the next upcycle.

Early last year I predicted (on the other forum) that US house prices would bottom this year, and would start moving upwards by the end of 2009. Of course they all laughed at me ( and still do :D), but I stand by my prediction!
 
Yeah nice - Yes I do have many degrees across multiple fields, my masters is not in finance, although one of my undergraduates was in economics (not commerce).

Family run portfolio extends to 15 acres of approved subdivision property in Australia's première coastal resort, 30 house / apartment urban development in central capital city, pubs, residential property.

Self educated in IT (in between degrees and work have learnt a dozen programming languages, including Chinese) running businesses developing software delivering applications to global pharmaceuticals and marketing companies from schering-plough to Wundermans).

I have been concentrating my work In the UK for the last 4 years where I have gained a much clearer understanding of International implications of market activities on domestic economies - hence my genuine concern for Australians inability to comprehend the intrinsic nature of global markets as an influential factor at home.

I genuinely have no interest in DOOMING people out - I am simply pointing out that external markets hav serious ramifications for Australia, that this downturn is like nothing we ahve ever seen, that there are considerations beyond domestic demand and supply. Pretty basic, honest stuff.

I have absolutely NO DOUBT that those attacking me on thsi forum are doing so as they see negativity as bad for business, as their remarks have almost nothing to do with any consideration for global markets.

The IMF has just issued a devastating body blow to world markets, placing a $6 trillion dollar write down on underlying assets - The Rudd government has gone into over drive pronouncing recession and further stimulus required. The UK has announced a 50% tax bracket. HSBC has announced a second rights issue. The IMF has stated clearly that Eastern European and emerging market pose a considerable threat - these economies were clawing their way out of poverty through western debt - this is going to have to be basically written off -

You will see more US banks closing when the Stress tests are announced (or bailouts extended - some for a third time).

Rudd made it clear, Australian revenues would be down to their lowest levels since the second world war.

But YAAAAAAH the Australian real estate institute said Sydney is going to have a bounce back....two years from now, no chance there could be further falls before then is there.....

Look I don't want to get sarcastic, I don't want anyone losing money or being scared out of the market - my point is that we are heading into further disarray, the economy has no where near finished imploding so just be careful. Don't take this personally, its just the truth.

If you wanted some serious doom and gloom wait till I tell you about the derivatives market, ($563 trillion) or the commercial real estate collapse.....now that is doomy gloomy. But no need to get into this for 6 months - hard enough convincing you people there is global contraction going on.

Negotiated Coal prices were reduced by %60 - you can rack ships up from here to Beijing, its the price that matters.

HI AUdas, thank you for your honest reply. I agree most of things (facts) you presented here. One thing I dont agree is the Australia market --- too small a country. We do not have manufacture - which is mostly hit by the market; we do not have high techs - which is mostly hit at moment; we do not have financial market like US or UK, which being hit heavily ---- we have is the resources which is most wanted by the world anyway --- may not be the best price like last few years -- but still in demand. Will we see the lights in UK or US, Japan, German, France... I do not think so. The holes in their system are so deep for them to fill by printing money.... Under current global trade system, it is the end of those "industralised" countries. Free market trade has NOT benefited those developed countries, but those developings, because the rules are not in the fair battleground, such as China. As George Soros said, China has gained too much power too soon, but nobody has asked why they gained so much power so soon.... The westerners give too much to China too soon and plaied by China by their rules, however, the westeners, their rules are a open book.... just like negotiatioin, one part keeps theirs secret but another opens up all they have... we know the result....
 
The US market rebound is definitely good news.

For Australia, however, my 6-12 months crystal ball tell me:
- FHB activity to return to historical level
- FHB grant ceasing/phasing out
- Tightening lending criteria and LVR
- Unemployment peaks
- Interest Rate expected to rise

And yet,
- Population/migration growth forecast are favourable
- Some recovery in resources demand is expected

The million dollar question is, how much correction do you anticipate?
 
The US market rebound is definitely good news.

what US rebound???? dont rely on propped up news stories!

the US is far far far from rebounding.......in fact it may get worse yet..

nothing is going to improve until credit markets become stable..right now its on a cliff edge waiting to topple on any sign of more bad news which i would say isnt far off...

there is a lot of data that all markets are not going to like over the next few months coming out of the US plus its quite possible more large corporations may fold...........for a start!

excuse the negativity but your statement is not factual in any way..the risk is still on the down side unless you listen to obarma...
 
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