Who owns the copyright in House Plans?

[lucky_phil]

Another installment in the long running saga of building some units.
Hired a designer-draftsman to produce designs for the project, and paid many thousands of dollars for plans to submit to council. Designer won't now release CAD files for the plans without us signing an agreement of his ownership to copyright. We believed that as we paid for the work, we owned the copyright, and should be free to use as we see fit. Any thoughts welcome!

 

[Sunfish]

Another installment in the long running saga of building some units.
Hired a designer-draftsman to produce designs for the project, and paid many thousands of dollars for plans to submit to council. Designer won't now release CAD files for the plans without us signing an agreement of his ownership to copyright. We believed that as we paid for the work, we owned the copyright, and should be free to use as we see fit. Any thoughts welcome!

You're commissioning the architect doesn't mean they're yours. He can reuse the plans with as much or little change as he wishes. Why do you wish to "own" them anyway?

Interesting thing on artwork. If you buy an original painting, the artist still owns the intellectual property ergo you cannot reproduce it. This even limits the way you can reproduce it in a auction catalogue if you wish to sell. I don't know what limits, if any, there are on the artist selling 500 reproductions tho.

Thommo

 

[lucky_phil]

Thanks Thommo, but if one has paid for any goods, eg plans, without specific restriction in the letter of appointment with the supplier, then surely it is owned in full by the purchaser to deal with, resell, or copy as they wish?

 

[Sunfish]

Thanks Thommo, but if one has paid for any goods, eg plans, without specific restriction in the letter of appointment with the supplier, then surely it is owned in full by the purchaser to deal with, resell, or copy as they wish?

Phil you asked about intellectual property and I gave my humble opinion on what is normal. You are free to disagree, in which case you should be seeking legal advice, not mine. Don't stress about it, it's something/nothing.

Thommo

ps I didn't sign such a document because I took a magazine with the drawings to the draftsman, so he could not claim ownership. If the original architect drove past and recognised his design he would have a right to feel agrieved though.

T

 

[Aceyducey]

lucky phil,

An architect can assign copyright if they choose - but unless THEY assign it you don't own it.

They don't have to specially ask to keep it.

Works the same way for words & music.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[Enemy Agents]

lucky phil,

An architect can assign copyright if they choose - but unless THEY assign it you don't own it.

They don't have to specially ask to keep it.

Works the same way for words & music.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

I agree Aceyducey I had a similar experience with lawyers who produced a document for me then sold it to another party as theirs because they actually placed my words on the document. They retain copywright even though I specifically designed and approved every word, I didn'yt type it though a mistake I will not make again.
Stephen

 

[Ausprop]

an architect friend offered me these words:

"...copyright of any design is licensed to the owner of the block. Technically, the designer hands over the copyright of the design to the client but for use only on that site. In other words, the client can’t make copies of the design and re-produce it on other sites. And as a side note, anything an Architect designs for the government automatically belongs to the crown……….funny old world isn’t it."

whether they are wrong or right is another matter.

 

[geoffw]

As a programmer and a contractor, the copyright for anything I wrote for the entity paying me belonged to them- unless my contract specified otherwise.

LuckyPhil, I suspect that the contract you had with them may have specified that they held the copyright. We are not talking about the general, we are talking baout the specific. Check the paperwork you have.

If, however, you do have copyright- you may have trouble, and expense, in claiming that copyright. Check your costs in claiming that.

It may be that the designer does not have copyright- but how much work would there be in getting that? Compare that with the cost of taking the plans to another designer, and getting new designs- with just enough changes to avoid copyright breaches.

 

[JoannaK]

In my experiences with architects, the architects own the copyright, and he assigns us the right to use it. They will rarely give up their copyright completely.

 

[lucky_phil]

Thanks for everyones thoughts on this, seems a very grey area that bears further examination, just because they've always done it that way doesn't mean it need continue.

 

[Clewsy]

my experience with design and construct builders/architects/home designers is to get a letter whereby all work they produce for your contract becomes the IP of you, before they start

if I paid you $1,000,000 to draw on a piece of paper a square with 2 cm sides then it is your copyright and I have no IP rights, you could use it as you please and make future profits from my verbal or written design expression, I could argue all I like about a little piece of paper with a little square and that it cost me $1,000,000 but it means nothing, you drew it so its yours

if I gave you sketches of which to base the design on then in gets messy

in copyright the old 20% rule doesn't apply anymore and you must demonstrate in the court of law substantial alteration from the claimant