Who's Out of the RAT RACE ??

Reply: 2.1.1.2.1.1.1
From: Darren B


Rixter, I will probably get lectured to for saying this, because it is extremely difficult to get out of the rat race doing it the aussie way of investing, in the short term:- ie poor rental returns. I found out the hard way myself and decided to copy the US way. I was far too impatient to wait 20 years.
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.2.2.1
From: Yuch .


Tibor,

She even said to me that it's only natural that the more you earn, the more you spend! And God decides how much she spends, not herself!!

Now I've vented all those negativity from my co-worker, I am happy again! :)


Regards
yuchun
~ The secret to success is to start from scratch and keep on scratching. ~
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1
From: Peter Henery


Darren,
By "the US method" I presume you mean "wraps" ? We investigated them and thought they would be quite hard work,and at that stage there seemed to be quite a few questions regarding the legal contracts etc. Maybe we got it wrong (believe me,it wouldn't be the first time!)"Wraps" seemed to me that while you can generate a good cash flow, there was some doubt as to whether or not you would end up with any assets at the end, because the proposal is that the tenant is actually purchasing..correct? If you've got some hands-on experience that would be good to hear. (I know if the tenant/purchaser defaults then you retain the property, and then can "re-wrap" it a higher rent.... but I kinda didn't like the feel of that "situation". Maybe I'm just too conservative.)

Peter H.
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.2.2.1.1
From: Jakk Bass - The SLUM LORD


G'Day All,

After a few too many stubboirs the other night, I was introduced to the game of cashflow and now it has dawned on me what everyone is meaning by "Leaving the Rat Race"
...By the way, what a great game this is!
Now to reply to some of whats been posted.

Anonymous wrote:
>2) Surely you've left the Rat Race once you're at strolling speed?

Yes that is TRUE

Anonymous also wrote:

>3) You're not being a bit morbid, are you? - you make it all sound terribly depressing - you're not going to jump off the Bridge or anything, are you?

Not ever, although I did consider something like this about 12 years ago

Sim' Hampel wrote

>I prefer to think of it as getting out of the ratrace once you can stop being a wage-slave and still maintain a certain standard of living and continue to invest.

Once you stop being a "wage-slave", you actually become better at investing, your mindset has changed, the whole paradigm thing has shifted.


M O N T O wrote:

>I am just thinking for someone who's out to the rat race by now probably wouldn't be here checking the posts.

Oh how wrong you are MONTO, you would be surprised at whos reading these posts, I have recently met a chap thats worth squillions and while we were discussing something last week, he made reference to a post on here. I was dumbfounded, I had only seen that particular posting a few hours earlier.


Rixter wrote:

>It appears we dont have too many Modest Financially Independent Property Entrepreneurs visiting this forum anymore.

I think theres a lot visiting, but I feel Modesty prevents most from posting.


Yuch C wrote:

>My definition of "Out of rat race' is: have enough passive income to replace my salary.

But being only human, we always want that little bit more, and more, and more.

Peter Henery wrote

>Plus, when you get this property thing going it does grow considerably during "the cycle" and that's real good fun !

Right On Peter, people say to me, "why do you keep doing this, why dont you do something that you enjoy?."
What they dont realise is that I love "playing with property" as I call it.
Also add to this that I cant play golf.


Dale Gatherum-Goss wrote

>Woohoo!!!! Well done Peter!

Dale, you are a top bloke, but i've already told you this.

Darren B wrote:

>I will probably get lectured to for saying this, because it is extremely difficult to get out of the rat race doing it the aussie way of investing, in the short term:- ie poor rental returns. I found out the hard way myself and decided to copy the US way. I was far too impatient to wait 20 years.

Whatever works for you Darren, I too am a very unconventional investor, but if it works, who cares

Peter Henery wrote:

>Maybe I'm just too conservative.)

Once again, if its worked for you, why change


Tibor wrote:

>...And God decides how much she spends, not herself!!

She is a deluded woman!


Regards
Jakk the Slum Lord, with a hangover
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.2.2.1.1.1
From: Tibor Bode


Jak,

Those fingers of yours (with the hangover)don't quite work. I did not write that, Yuch C responded to me and quoted her co-worker.

But definitely congratulations to You and also to Peter(I hope remember well) and everyone else who has made it "out of the rat race". It is always an inspiration to me to talk to and learn from people who already achieved I am aspiring for.

Tibor
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1
From: Robert Forward


Hi Henry

You are correct in saying that if you wrap then you will eventually own nothing. But you will need to diversify your portfolio.

With the income that is generated via wraps especially when the wrappee's buy you out, aka Rick Otton style, you will have regular checks of $20-30-40k of which you can buy some more wrap trading properties and some buy and holds.

Come and see one of Ricks seminars, he is heading around Australia at the moment with Freestyler Events.

http://www.freestyler.net.au/events/events_rickotton.html

Cheers,
Robert

Get your Property Inspection Reports @
http://www.CreativeFinance.com.au
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1
From: Peter Henery


Jakk,
Give us an insight into your "unconventionals" !

Learn (sic) us !

Peter H.
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1.1
From: Jakk Bass - The SLUM LORD


Peter,

Jakks rule No. 1 - Never buy a property that can't be turned to positive cashflow within a reasonable time i.e. within 6 months. (and by that I dont mean allowing for depreciation, tax advantages etc. I am talking cold hard cash in your pocket.
e.g. rent-(interest+rates+insurance+repairs+any other expenses)=$positive dollars in your pocket

Jakks rule No. 2 - Always put in 20% equity + borrowing costs + stamp duty + legals etc. (by all means revalue at a later date and borrow against equity build up to buy additional property, but never owe more than 80%) my reason for this is if the shit ever really hits the fan, worst case scenario, you sell the property and pay out loan and then walk. or as they say, drive away, no more to pay.

Jakks rule No. 3 - I always buy in my own name, no trusts for me, no company structure.
I have heard our very learned man Dale speak on trusts and I was convinced that this is the only way to go, but I am a control freak and somehow I love getting those rate notices with my name on them.
Last years Land Tax bill from memory was around $9,000 but I am only too happy to pay it (yeah right), I know this could be reduced significantly through the use of trusts, but you cant teach an old dog new tricks.

Jakks rule No. 4 - Invest no further than an hours drive from where you live.
I like to see what I own, I like to drive past my properties regularly, I like to see if adjoining properties are for sale, I want to know it all. If there is a repair to be done, then I want to see it and if I cant do it personally, I'll contact one of my preferred contractors. Put simply I don't believe that anyone cares more for my properties than I do, why should they.

Jakks Rule No 5 - Always look outside the square, always. some of the best properties I have owned or still own are ones that were passed up by other investors, Try to see something that others cant, this is hard to put in words but mastering this aspect alone will put you in a class above others.

I'll give an example here.

I owned a house on a corner, and was looking at building a unit fronting the side street on the same block. While getting plans drawn up, house next door came up for sale, put everything on hold and bought next door house.
Applied to do transfer & consolidation of title (attached to my original block)
put next door house straight back on market, same price as purchased but with reduced backyard and sold no probs just had to wait to get everything through for settlemnt.
New plans drawn up for 3 units on newly created "L" shaped allotment, and pased at council. So basically got 2 unit site for free. Very hard to lose money on development when you dont pay for the land.
By the way financing the construction of these units I achieved 130% finance, no probs as they looked at the value of the completed project. (my equity in total project was still over 20% on paper)
Sold 2 of the units and kept the 3rd and I still own old house on corner.
Accountant said I had to apportion cost over the 3 new units, paid a bit of CGT but basically the 3rd unit owes me nothing.
I figure worth around $155,000 now and returning around $9,000 a year
Now thats what i call positive cashflow:
cost $0 returning $9,000 per annum.
would love to do a few of these a year.

Gone slightly off track here, and kids nagging me to a challenge of Crash Bandicoot on playstation.

better sign off.

Will think of more rules and post later.

Go on folks, pick it to pieces, but has worked for me, and the funny part is it's still working and I aint.

regards
Jakk the Slum Lord
..and the hangovers nearly gone.
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Tibor Bode


Thanks Jakk,

Woow! It was definitely thinking outside the square with brilliant results. Excellent points (I have came to similar conclusion regarding to my rules, based on past - non working - practical experiences).

Just one point where I dare to have a differing opinion. I personally don't believe that your property need to be within 1 hour driving range. I personally would not give a hoo-too where the property is located, after my due diligence about the area and some annoying tax issues, what does it look like, etc, all I need is the numbers (makes financial sense or not) and how can I add value to it.

I am quite happily buying and running (locally managed after a couple RE agent got sacked and the one who got it now has a clear idea what I am about, so we can have a win-win situ) properties which are way out of my driving range (Sydney vs Brissy). I am rather interested to work on my property business than work in it (Gerber).

Obviously your strategy worked for you well (this is the only important thing) and I feel privileged that you have shared it with us. I expect mine will work well for me, albeit it is slightly differing from yours, but only time will tell that my opinion will be right or wrong, while yours is obviously right, based on the facts.

Tibor
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mark Laszczuk


PLease read my post in the St. Kilda opportunity thread in Caveat Emptor before reading this.
Now this is what I was trying to say! Different strategies work for different people! Hwo many of those pos geared disciples wouldn't touch some of Jakk's stuff because it wasn't positive from the outset? Let me say congratulations to you, Jakk, I can't wait until I am in a similar position to you.

Mark
'no hat, some cattle'
 
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Reply: 2.1.2
From: The Wife


Hi Monto,

Some people who are "out of the rat race", have children and find it highly impractical to sit on an island sipping cocktails, most islands dont have schools, and tutoring ones child alone on an island makes for a slightly non balanced child.

How many pics have you seen of Rupert Murdoch, Kerry Packer, or their sons, sitting on an island sipping cocktails?

The more you achieve, the harder you work, but the magic is, the hard work is no longer something that is displeasing, it becomes very satisfying.


TW

PS: Rat race escapees do still go to the beach, although they have the ability to be flown in via helicopter to a secluded spectacular beach ( with a very good restaurant 2 klms around the bend that will deliver picnic baskets of delicious food 3 times a day, no need to take food cooking utensils errrk, all that sand in the food!) and pitch a tent cause the kids want to go camping and fish on the beach.


PPS: Jakk, I am up to level 14 in crash bandicoot, just overtook my smart alec 7 yo who thought he was crash hot, yippeee for the mummys.

On 7/4/02 9:51:00 PM, M O N T O wrote:
>I am just thinking for someone
>who's out to the rat race by
>now probably wouldn't be here
>checking the posts. S/he would
>be in some tropical islands
>sipping the pineapple cocktail
>and watch the sun set, or
>drinking some nice wine in the
>little French village...
>That's what my definition of
>out of the rat race is -
>enough passive income to enjoy
>myself 24 hours a day whenever
>I want.
>The reality might be, by the
>time I am rich enough I will
>probably enjoy making more
>money than having a great
>lifestyle whole day.
 
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Reply: 2.1.2.1
From: Mark Laszczuk


Speaking of Playstation games, does anyone get into Gran Turismo 3?

Mark
'no hat, some cattle'
 
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Reply: 2.1.2.1.1
From: Jakk Bass - The SLUM LORD


Mark,

I must be really behind the times,
I didn't even know there was a Gran Turismo 1.

There is so much to learn in a lifetime, lucky I have 3 boys that think they know it all so all I have to do is ask them.

P.S TW (cute house queeny)..level 14 huh?....In serious competition mode now, level 4 nearly mastered, next week kids back at school and Playstation is all mine. By next Friday, watch out Queeny.

regards
Jakk the Slum Lord and future Playstation King
 
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Reply: 2.1.2.1.1.1
From: The Wife


Mark,

I can only last about 30 seconds in Gran turismo, my husband and son are really good, they have the steering wheel and pedal setup, they have a friend who has hooked it all up to look like your sitting in a real rally type car, I think this is taking playstation to far.

Jakk, next time I am in Melbourne I will be happy to show off my crash bandicoot skills :eek:) a handy tip, you need a couple of glasses of port to steady the nerves in the higher levels, and throwing hard objects at the tv when you lose all your lives and havent been able to save it isnt a good idea, and its a terrible example to ones children :eek:(

Cheers, TW
 
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Reply: 2.1.2.1.1.2
From: Will G


Excellent & Interesting Post.

I haven't made it out of the 'Rat Race' according to some of the definitions within this post but don't feel I am 'In neutral spinning my gears'.

I feel I will be 'out of the Rat Race ie 'Retired' when I can supplement my investment income with enjoyable day jobs( yielding 20 - 30K per annum) to produce a combined income of about 70K (in todays dollars).

I will want the flexibility(in retirement) to try new kinds of day jobs such as, Home Handyman, Musician, Waiter, Ski Instructor in Winter, Resort worker in summer, cherry picker in spring ....

I feel that 'getting out of the Rat Race' is a state of mind where you concentrate on 'living life and gaining new experiences' rather than focusing on buying bigger & better things and getting into more debt.

Cheers,
Will
 
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Reply: 2.1.2.1.1.1.1
From: Michele B


TW
If you can't be a good example, be a horrible warning instead :)
 
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Reply: 2.1.2.1.1.2.1
From: Rick Otton


i figured it out........even if you win the rat race.....your still a rat
 
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Reply: 2.1.2.1.1.2.1.1
From: Robert Forward


But Rick, at least your a Rat that can choice when he needs to get out of bed in the morning. Not having to trudge out of bed to get to the office cause you may not have a job if you don't.

So, I'd say your a happy smiley rat...

Cheers,
Robert

Get your Property Inspection Reports @
http://www.CreativeFinance.com.au
 
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Reply: 2.1.2.1.1.2.1.2
From: Ross Sondergeld


Hi Rick,



Subject: Who's Out of the RAT RACE ??

Rick Otton said, "I figured it out... even if you win
the rat race... you're still a rat."


Well said.... (Are you still a rat... Rick? ;-)

I hope you're this funny when i go to your gold coast seminar.

Keen to hear Mr Vendor Finance !!!



Ross Sondergeld ~ Buyer Agent

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" Imagine buying real estate the easy way...
...with a Buyer Agent on your side!!! "

Buyerside Real Estate Mobile 0412 289 464
Office 9b, 34 Glenferrie Drive Office (07) 5562 1555
East Quay Corporate Park Fax (07) 5562 1248
Robina QLD 4226, Gold Coast [email protected]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
 
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Reply: 2.1.2.1.1.2.1.2.1
From: Felicity W.


I'd rather be a rat than a piece of cheese.
Keep smiling
Felicity :cool:
 
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