Why be an employer ?

[geoffw]

Hi Geoff

But why Geoff why?

Peter

It's there to protect people from being sacked without cause- possibly on the spurious complaint of somebody who just doesn't like somebody else. I once came damn close to being sacked for spurious reasons- I kept my job only because my supervisor took the trouble to find out the true story, and to determine that I was not really in the wrong as had been alleged. I was a contractor, so Fair Work would not have protected me in that situation.

I found as an employer that there were many situations where people just hadn't realised that they were doing the wrong thing. Something had been said, perhaps in jest, that was taken in the wrong way, or delivered in th.e wrong way. I was brought up in an era where certain behaviours were acceptable, but which are not now. A reminder, whatever their intention, was all that was needed.

I always tried to be fair and reasonable with employees. When I treat them as responsible adults, they react in the same way.

 

[Peter 14.7]

I always tried to be fair and reasonable with employees. When I treat them as responsible adults, they react in the same way.

But not all employees.

Sadly I have found more than a small percentage of my employees take advantage of my trust in them and the trust of the managers whom I employ.
Lies, drugs, sickies, stealing, etc....

You don't need the level of cover they have put in place to achieve that.

A employer duty of care comes with an employe duty of taking responsibility

My point is: i don't need this. I can earn as much as one man show when it is all washed down. If I was ******* employer I could rort the system but I am not. Anyhow I am just one person.

Peter

 

[china]

But not all employees.

Sadly I have found more than a small percentage of my employees take advantage of my trust in them and the trust of the managers whom I employ.
Lies, drugs, sickies, stealing, etc....

You don't need the level of cover they have put in place to achieve that.

A employer duty of care comes with an employe duty of taking responsibility

My point is: i don't need this. I can earn as much as one man show when it is all washed down. If I was ******* employer I could rort the system but I am not. Anyhow I am just one person.

Peter

Very well said. A lot of employees think that they are doing you a massive favour by coming to work. When you as the employer point out various issues, they lie, steal, etc.

The laws are in this country make it very hard to have employees who as you say, have more than a small propensity to act in a distrustful manner.

 

[BayView]

Are we breeding such, selfish, cruel, ignorant yobbos that they think it is acceptable to steal, smoke drugs, cheat, lie, bully, sexually harass, watch porn , offend others etc etc etc at the workplace? Are we?

Yep, we are.

They are called bogans.

That is why it is so hard for us small businessmen/women that it is simply, not worth it. Not the money you make, the lifestyle you have, the freedom, it not worth the stress of having to suffer fools who have legal rights to be abose you and they system.

And the gov rules are : hey that is ok.

Workplace Contracts which state all the cans and cant do's cover all the bases now.

You just have to make sure you get around to creating one big enough to cover all the stuff you need.

The worst case I every heard is a bunch of old unionised miners who bullied a younger non union colleague so much because he was not one of them: call him fag, etc and then masturbated in front of and in some reports on him in the lift going into the mine. Company sacked them on the spot.

Went to WF full appeal court with support of the Union who argued to get them to get their job on Fair Work back as " a bit of fun gone to far" and drinking was well known at the mine.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/10/18/3040695.htm?site=newcastle

I am must be old fashioned but that is never right, in no way, in no circumstances.

Peter 14.7

Welcome to the world of previously mentioned bogans. They're a great bunch, hey?

I can just imagine the type in that case; smart, clean-cut, educated, civilised, well mannered....

Close?

 

[china]

Yep, we are.

They are called bogans.

Workplace Contracts which state all the cans and cant do's cover all the bases now.

You just have to make sure you get around to creating one big enough to cover all the stuff you need.

Welcome to the world of previously mentioned bogans. They're a great bunch, hey?

I can just imagine the type in that case; smart, clean-cut, educated, civilised, well mannered....

Close?

But unfortunately, a lot of businesses, big and small have to rely on bogans without the legal means for bogan control.

 

[BayView]

But unfortunately, a lot of businesses, big and small have to rely on bogans without the legal means for bogan control.

My industry is bogan central.

As are several others, of course,

I had a very expensive experience in dealing with an issue that I didn't have in a work place agreement. Had I added the rules required beforehand - as was pointed out to me by the governing association we deal with, I would have been right. Lesson learned.

Basically, add in whatever you want to cover the bogan-factor before they start employment, get em to sign off on the agreement and away you go.

I think the other thing is to suss out the staff very, very early on in the probation period and make sure they are suitably put in line if they seem like they many become a problem.

Most of these idiots are pretty easy to pick.

Issue the first written warning immediately and most times that's enough to kneecap the attitude.

The hard bit is issuing the first written warning if you've never been burend by a staff before.

After being burned - it is easy to issue one for the next staff who thinks they can act up.

 

[Macca]

It seems that any sense of proportion has left the building

<<On July 29, Happy Cabby Pty Ltd was fined $238,920 for shortchanging seven Happy Cabby bus drivers more than $26,000 relating to work transferring passengers to and from Newcastle and Sydney airport in 2011.

The fine - which stemmed from the drivers' "misclassification" as independent contractors rather than employees - was one of the biggest handed down by the NSW ombudsman, which also fined the company's operator and sole director Graeme Paff $47,748.>>

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1757440/happy-cabby-drives-on-under-new-name/?cs=303

I don't condone short payment by any employer, I don't even approve of "trial shifts" but if this these guys accepted employment as sub contractors by mutual agreement then that is what they are IMO

 

[BayView]

It seems that any sense of proportion has left the building

<<On July 29, Happy Cabby Pty Ltd was fined $238,920 for shortchanging seven Happy Cabby bus drivers more than $26,000 relating to work transferring passengers to and from Newcastle and Sydney airport in 2011.

The fine - which stemmed from the drivers' "misclassification" as independent contractors rather than employees - was one of the biggest handed down by the NSW ombudsman, which also fined the company's operator and sole director Graeme Paff $47,748.>>

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1757440/happy-cabby-drives-on-under-new-name/?cs=303

I don't condone short payment by any employer, I don't even approve of "trial shifts" but if this these guys accepted employment as sub contractors by mutual agreement then that is what they are IMO

Just another avenue of red tape to drive folks out of business.

 

[Aaron_C]

To be fair, there is no real concrete definition of an employee vs a contractor. I did employment law and it's the question that is never answered with certainty.

 

[Token Funder]

It seems that any sense of proportion has left the building

<<On July 29, Happy Cabby Pty Ltd was fined $238,920 for shortchanging seven Happy Cabby bus drivers more than $26,000 relating to work transferring passengers to and from Newcastle and Sydney airport in 2011.

The fine - which stemmed from the drivers' "misclassification" as independent contractors rather than employees - was one of the biggest handed down by the NSW ombudsman, which also fined the company's operator and sole director Graeme Paff $47,748.>>

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1757440/happy-cabby-drives-on-under-new-name/?cs=303

I don't condone short payment by any employer, I don't even approve of "trial shifts" but if this these guys accepted employment as sub contractors by mutual agreement then that is what they are IMO

These sorts of "misclassifications" are rarely accidental. And when an Employer Ombudsman hands down a fine of that magnitude, you can be sure their investigations have led them to the view that it was an attempt to deliberately avoid super, payroll tax, workers comp and the like.

Businesses gaming the system - be it around employment, tax, screwing suppliers or whatever - receive an advantage over those businesses who don't and I have little sympathy for them

 

[Macca]

To be fair, there is no real concrete definition of an employee vs a contractor. I did employment law and it's the question that is never answered with certainty.

Precisely ! It seems to me that should I own my own mini bus and choose to operate under the umbrella of an established business, then surely I should be allowed to negotiate terms without red tape interfering

 

[china]

Precisely ! It seems to me that should I own my own mini bus and choose to operate under the umbrella of an established business, then surely I should be allowed to negotiate terms without red tape interfering

You will like doing business in Hong Kong.

 

[redwing]

• Bra-snapping
• Chair-sniffing
• Squirrel-gripping
• Falsifying Allowance claims
• Wife Cheating
• Dry humping

Not an employee...it's a Politician according to the link

Setting an example on Moral Standards for the Community ?

Troy Buswell's controversial career

 

[natmarie73]

But unfortunately, a lot of businesses, big and small have to rely on bogans without the legal means for bogan control.

Oh God so true! I work in the oil and gas/construction industry and the easiest, most pleasant employees to deal with are those on 457 visas. Chinese/Koreans in particular value their jobs and will bend over backwards to do them well, follow the rules and work and without complaint or whinging. Australian unionised workers and our cousins from across the pond are the most difficult to deal with and will do the least they can get away with, complain and whinge the most and have a very noticable "me me me" attitude. Not all of course, but the majority. My company only uses fixed term casual contracts for the blue collar workforce as it's easy to get rid of the bogans and troublemakers who are just in it to rape the company for all they can get. Unfortunately skill shortages mean we sometimes have no choice to employ abovementioned bogans

What I can't stand are those people who think a job is a god-given right and they can bludge, rip off their employer without recourse, or don't do anything for themselves and expect employer to provide.

 

[Norwester]

These sorts of "misclassifications" are rarely accidental.

Exactly.

After working in WA, in a position and situation that required alienation of personal income for the last five years I can assure anyone that in the eyes of the ATO there is absolutely no doubt at all........

Ciao

Nor

 

[BayView]

Oh God so true! I work in the oil and gas/construction industry and the easiest, most pleasant employees to deal with are those on 457 visas. Chinese/Koreans in particular value their jobs and will bend over backwards to do them well, follow the rules and work and without complaint or whinging. Australian unionised workers and our cousins from across the pond are the most difficult to deal with and will do the least they can get away with, complain and whinge the most and have a very noticable "me me me" attitude. Not all of course, but the majority. My company only uses fixed term casual contracts for the blue collar workforce as it's easy to get rid of the bogans and troublemakers who are just in it to rape the company for all they can get. Unfortunately skill shortages mean we sometimes have no choice to employ abovementioned bogans

What I can't stand are those people who think a job is a god-given right and they can bludge, rip off their employer without recourse, or don't do anything for themselves and expect employer to provide.

LOL!

Absolutely agree, and that attitude is costing jobs left right and centre.

All theses smart @rses who think they are clever and rip off the company because they reckon the boss earns too much and so on, will get theirs sooner or later.

But, you reap what you sow; the really good employees rise to the top, the smart @rses often end up whining when they are out of a job....

Pretty simple; do your job you are employed to do, do it as well as you can, be an asset to the business.

 

[coastal]

To be fair, there is no real concrete definition of an employee vs a contractor. I did employment law and it's the question that is never answered with certainty.

http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?DocID=LIT/ICD/VID409of2009/00001

This case sorted the definition out I think

 

[Marty McDonald]

http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?DocID=LIT/ICD/VID409of2009/00001

This case sorted the definition out I think

http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?DocID=LIT/ICD/VID409of2009/00001

This case sorted the definition out I think

Agree.

I don't think it's too difficult. You work for one person/company and get treated like an employee by that person/company in regards to every day tasks and expectations and bingo your an employee. Further there really is no room in the legislation to have independent contractors if all they do is work for one business / person.

All it does is give unscrupulous employers an unfair advantage and I'm a business owner and liberal voter!

 

[Aaron_C]

http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?DocID=LIT/ICD/VID409of2009/00001

This case sorted the definition out I think

If it was as simple as that then we wouldn't have employment lawyers. Grey areas all the time.

 

[Peter 14.7]

Off topic a bit but...

The Upside of this I don't care culture is employees who do care are much more valuable than ever.

What gets me is the sense of entitlement some have.

I want, want , want and give it to me.

That one of my big issues with the ALP is they don't look after those really in need but pander to spoilt protected species* if unionised.

I genuinely fear for the future of many of the 20 something generation who seem to think the world/government will provide for them. They have the latest gear, cars, holidays, experiences yet complain they cannot buy a house/unit like we all did in the old days.

Although they have been brought up in the consumer generation all pushed via TV and now IT Media.

Best decision we ever made was not letting our daughter watch free to arm or Foxtel TV. Only DVDs. Reduced the advertising by 95%. Case in point : She just had her birth day and got a $19 Aldi Sleeping Bag and our 4 year old digital camera for Guides and School Camp use. A branded bag would have been $60 to $90 and new camera in pink $150.

So my point is: if we raise spoilt kids with no consequences we get indulged adults with no responsibility for their actions.

Peter 14.7